General / Off-Topic The safest place

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It's too bad when I and a few others like @lysan started advising people over five weeks ago to start reasonably preparing their larders for more than the usual 1-3 days amount the typical person has at any one time we were called a 'panic inducing hoarders' who were going to "strip store shelves and screw everyone else over" or words to that effect by a few choice members of this forum. Ironically, it's that attitude that is directly leading now to the real panic buying, store shortages and brawls in the parking lot over the last flat of bottled water that we're hearing about now. If people had practiced common sense preparatory measures before there would be no need to over-react now. Self preservation 101.

@Synkreto glad to hear that you are getting yourself situated as best as possible. You sound like a resilient person with his/her head screwed on the right way.

Well in fairness the reason why shelves are empty, is because everybody is panic hoarding. If people just kept buying their regular stuff, instead of buying a nuclear winter's worth of toilet paper, there wouldn't be any problem at all with supply shortages.

As unfortunately people can never be trusted to act rationally, the best thing to actually do is exactly what you did: hoard before all the others.
 
Maybe I underestimate the appetite of Americans, but even when you have absolutely no food you will be fine for 'a few hours'.
Sure I agree, my point is that given 72 hours without electricity, running water, police or medical services, re-suppling the local grocery store -- all those things we take for granted every day -- that what we think of as "civilization" would fall apart quite rapidly. Ok I know that’s extreme but think hurricanes, or something worse than corona/wuhan virus and we will go crazy really fast.

another topic to think about, if you got pets, have you got what THEY need to stay alive, food and medicine?

remember the dry food for pet is not for longtime storage, you need something better like rice or canned food. Regarding hoarding, we never do that we always keep a good stock at home of EVERYTHING 🤓😁🤫
 
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Sure I agree, my point is that given 72 hours without electricity, running water, police or medical services, re-suppling the local grocery store -- all those things we take for granted every day -- that what we think of as "civilization" would fall apart quite rapidly. Ok I know that’s extreme but think hurricanes, or something worse than corona/wuhan virus and we will go crazy really fast.

another topic to think about, if you got pets, have you got what THEY need to stay alive, food and medicine?

remember the dry food for pet is not for longtime storage, you need something better like rice or canned food. Regarding hoarding, we never do that we always keep a good stock at home of EVERYTHING 🤓😁🤫
We have six dogs, four goats, a horse, about twenty ducks and chickens, and supplies to keep them for approximately 6-8 weeks. Personally, I look at them as an extension of our pantry if it comes down to that:)
 
Well in fairness the reason why shelves are empty, is because everybody is panic hoarding. If people just kept buying their regular stuff, instead of buying a nuclear winter's worth of toilet paper, there wouldn't be any problem at all with supply shortages.

As unfortunately people can never be trusted to act rationally, the best thing to actually do is exactly what you did: hoard before all the others.
Right, of course. But if everyone had prepared earlier there would be no need for panic buying and hoarding now, which was the only point I tried to raise.
 
It's too bad when I and a few others like @lysan started advising people over five weeks ago to start reasonably preparing their larders for more than the usual 1-3 days amount the typical person has at any one time we were called a 'panic inducing hoarders' who were going to "strip store shelves and screw everyone else over" or words to that effect by a few choice members of this forum. Ironically, it's that attitude that is directly leading now to the real panic buying, store shortages and brawls in the parking lot over the last flat of bottled water that we're hearing about now. If people had practiced common sense preparatory measures before there would be no need to over-react now. Self preservation 101.

@Synkreto glad to hear that you are getting yourself situated as best as possible. You sound like a resilient person with his/her head screwed on the right way.

All the panic buyers probably describe what they are doing as preparing reasonably.

I've got maybe three or four weeks worth of food as standard. More if I'm willing to eat the out of date dehydrated outdoors food packets I forgot about in the attic.
 
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Well in fairness the reason why shelves are empty, is because everybody is panic hoarding. If people just kept buying their regular stuff, instead of buying a nuclear winter's worth of toilet paper, there wouldn't be any problem at all with supply shortages.

As unfortunately people can never be trusted to act rationally, the best thing to actually do is exactly what you did: hoard before all the others.

You have nailed it.

The behaviour is psychological, borne from a need to gain control again. It is totally useless to even have toilet paper for the pandemic; we lived without it for almost all of human history. It is why people buy ammo and weapons and feel better though the actual need is (hopefully) just very slightly increased.

I started carrying personal weapons again for the last 4 weeks. Totally useless, except it reduced my stress. Old slow and sick? Best defense is a coughing fit, they will cut and run.

The practical point of the stockpile is so we can avoid contacts and not get sick. For 3 months, like in China.
That brings the crime rate down to nearly zero, criminals are afraid of getting sick too.

So stockpile consumables you would really burn through, and try to moderate the consumption too. We don't need to eat 3 meals and 6 snacks a day sitting watching the whole series of Umbrella Academy. (Reccommended viewing)

What we really need is ICU capacity for the peak. And coffins, lots of coffins. Coffee, lots of coffee.
 

Deleted member 38366

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Well in fairness the reason why shelves are empty, is because everybody is panic hoarding. If people just kept buying their regular stuff, instead of buying a nuclear winter's worth of toilet paper, there wouldn't be any problem at all with supply shortages.

As unfortunately people can never be trusted to act rationally, the best thing to actually do is exactly what you did: hoard before all the others.

A limited percentage of the population is merely preparing while the majority of people are still asleep.

The problem is the "just in time" logistics of typical western economies with exclusive focus on penny-pinching profits.
Hence, those few people (around here according to polls some ~15% absolute tops) are already more than sufficient to break the System.

Now imagine the other 80%-85% realizing that "the music stopped playing" and seeking their seats in the dance room - only to realize there aren't enough seats for everybody. Never were.
That principle works for global high finance, just as it works for benign things such as canned food or toilet paper.
And the music? It indeed stopped playing. It stopped weeks ago already - but only the smartest realized it and acted accordingly and in a timely manner.

The rest is just the usual "can you trust to public to act responsibly?" and spread out their preparation over a longer time, so that the supply chains aren't overstressed and more people can get what they need?
lol .... hell no. Of course not, at least not with typical western Millenials, Generation X or Generation Z that never even heard of a crisis, other than watching it on TV occurring elsewhere and then zapping to another channel.

South Korea for example? Comparably very disciplined people, due to long-standing tensions and proximity to North Korea the government retained all typical stockpile requirements and preparedness on a national level.
Most western countries disbanded and lost that critical capability a few years after the end of the cold war. And that now comes around to bite. Unexpectedly - but that doesn't matter.

In the western countries, the real panic hasn't even set in yet. We haven't seen anything yet - but it's coming, so much is guaranteed.
Short of some medical or scientific wonder popping up, that is.

Old AirForce motto I retained : hope for the best - but plan for the worst
Still true and 100% valid.

PS.
Based just on the numbers, we (Germany) will hit contamination levels that match or exceed the point where the Italian healthcare System collapsed in roughly 6-7 days. Maybe 10 days if we're really lucky for some unknown reason, 14 days would be exceedingly optimistic and highly unrealistic.

But looking around? The typical civilian acts as if this wasn't Mar 2020 - but Mar 2019. Or 2018. All normal-normal - with the exception of public events being all canceled, Schools/Universities etc. closed and an increasingly annoying shortage of various supplies.
Those will be the ones spreading the contamination with geometric speed - and they'll be the ones who'll be hit the hardest.
(all in lieu of a total nation-wide emergency lockdown - which IMHO can't happen soon enough)
 
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I wouldn't call building castles out of toilet paper "preparing", but I do agree that you can't trust the public to act rationally, so in order to stay ahead we must be irrational sooner than all the others.
 
I still think this has passed the containment phase. It's a god damn flu and it spreads accordingly fast
And there are good chances it's here to stay - which means we will have it back in the autumn/winter

The only chance to stop it would be to mass distribute tests, have anyone tested and all the positive should self-isolate at home while also reporting their condition to authorities.
Even tho it would rely on personal responsibility - which some are really lacking

We had two blatant cases in our country:

- one dude in his early sixties which returned from abroad at the end of the February, then participated to some company wide events on March 2nd, getting in contact with more than 100 coworkers, on 3rd he felt sick so went to hospital. They released him home the same day. Then on 5th he felt even worse and went back to the hospital. On 8th or 9th he was confirmed positive. The entire hospital was put on quarantine and after contacts with him more than 15 new cases emerged from this.
It's worth mentioning that in the hospital admission form he declared that he never left the country in the last 2 months. He has criminal charges filled against him now.

- second one with a female, under 30. She also returned from abroad (from a hot zone) and she was placed in isolation at home. She didn't respect the isolation, and she was fined. Then she simply ignored the fine and the isolation orders and went to roam the county for almost a week, including getting admitted into 2 hospitals for other medical conditions unrelated to Covid-19. Eventually she was tested anyway and proved infected. It's worth mentioning that she had no symptoms.
She also got criminal charges filed against her, but that doesnt help with the fact that a string of new cases emerged because of her negligence.

Now we have more than 100 cases, luckily no deaths yet.
Out of those 100 cases only a single one was reported to be serious, but in a stable condition for the moment.

How can it be contained with people like this?
The fact that some can be carriers without having symptoms or having nothing more than ordinary cold or allergy like symptoms doesn't help at all.
 
There are reports that it was present in China in the middle of Nov, over 6 weeks before the official timeline. This was global and well integrated in society before most people even heard about, much less started looking for it.
 
How can it be contained with people like this?
The fact that some can be carriers without having symptoms or having nothing more than ordinary cold or allergy like symptoms doesn't help at all.

You can't, and you won't. Far too late now, except for a tiny handful of countries (and several islands) who were quick to close down borders. Vast majority of countries acted too little too late and didn't have the balls to take drastic measures a month or 2 ago when there was still time. I mean half of my country has border with Spain, which is the 2nd most contaminated country in europe, yet we still aren't restricting access from Spain, and not even testing people entering from Spain.

Best we can do now is try to delay the spread so each country medical services can try to keep up the best they can with whatever means they have.
 
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He was merely preparing...
The hand sanitizers are a decent idea, nothing wrong with having a bottle or three, but not worth getting worked up about. Short of living in a haz mat suit the idea that Purell is going to save people was merely comfort food for the soul.
 
Well it took me visits to 5 different shops before I could find a Taco kit. Every where had fajitas, enchilladas and some other thing I can't recall - but no Taco kits.

It was quite traumatic so I stopped for a quick pint.

WhatsApp Image 2020-03-14 at 16.20.10.jpeg
Also, as luck would have it there were no queues outside the furniture store so anyone who is running out of sofas is sorted.
 
Well it took me visits to 5 different shops before I could find a Taco kit. Every where had fajitas, enchilladas and some other thing I can't recall - but no Taco kits.

It was quite traumatic so I stopped for a quick pint.

View attachment 165425
Also, as luck would have it there were no queues outside the furniture store so anyone who is running out of sofas is sorted.
A pint of Corona to go with the taco fixings?
 
Does anyone get any information through news, or other channels, of what is happening in France, Spain, Portugal ? Does anyone get ongoing information about the Situation in Italy atmo ?
 
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