Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11

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In terms of what they've pre-sold and pledged to deliver, almost everything is missing ;)

But more pragmatically, if we were to forget all the grand sales pitches, not discuss whether the existing game mechanics are good/bad, and focus purely on what is missing for an absolute Minimal Viable Product?


  • Persistence: Money and kit disappear on a whim. Hell, sometimes avatars change gender mid-session. Any accrued earnings or ship purchases are reset between wipes. (The last aspect was supposed to receive a partial fix in the latest patch, termed 'baby long term persistence'. It does not seem to have worked particularly well to date.)

  • Stable Servers: The current system is a half-built Frankenstein concoction which falls over with regularity. '30k' crashes, massive desyncs where you can pass through your ship and watch the general game functionality melt around you. The theory is that this collection of half-functions will be assembled into standard instanced server regions at some point, which may work better. (And then the genuinely 'never been done before' server meshing is supposed to happen, creating a unified player space. This was supposed to happen in 2019. It is currently nowhere close to happening.)

  • Functioning AI: The AI is currently woeful. Supposedly due in part to the state of the servers. The ground NPCs are the most amusing. In FPS they can shoot through walls, or be rendered immortal, or all run at you in a mad mob, or just not react to your presence at all. The more decorative ones at stations frequently just stand in stationary collectives in doorways, or stand looking wistful on chairs. Or curve their heads down in a rubberised way to look at their own armpit. It's weird. Not that they really have a function, but somehow they manage to anti-function. Several of these issues have been 'fixed' previously only to regress.

  • Bug Squashing: The accrued bugs in SC are legion. Ones like ships spawning without their components (doors, engines etc) are ancient. Others like players spawning without their head, or in an invisible state where they can't interact with anything are almost as old. But the list is absurdly long. You can break your legs, have a heart attack, or simply fall through the floor doing the most mundane of actions. Random decompressed areas will kill you, lifts will kill you, duplicated trains will trap you in an eternal limbo. Ships will Quantum Travel directly into the heart of planets, which are explicably filled with water (explicably for reasons that are too long to mention), and kill you. On and on and on it goes. (If your UI disappears a popular voodoo fix with the community is to change the colour of your eyes. This probably says a fair bit about the state of the game ;))

This may all seem hard to believe, but it really does seem to be that janky at a functional technical level. See Mole's post above yours for a recent 'review of the year' ;)

This is all just keeping it brief though. If you want a long list of all the more glamorous gameplay that they've pre-sold but are absolutely nowhere close to delivering, then that would require a lot more words and pictures ;)

Here's my review of the last year of SC

s-l300.png

But of course, that doesn't stop CIG making a load of money yesterday by selling ships with green paintjobs.
 
Personally, I am amazed that this is still being discussed as a subject.

I jumped on board the moment ( and I mean moment ) that it was possible. I have my "golden ticket", t-shirt ( long since worn out and thrown out ), Commanders ID card... It's all just a waste. I think of it like a lottery ticket : I don't expect to win, but that $5 does allow me to fantasize about telling my boss to shove it and buying a 67 Corvette for my eternal road trip. All the money I spent allowed ( just under $200 ) me to share that fantasy, look at cool stuff, and dream about how cool it could be. I remembered all the wonder of Wing Commander, and I wanted 'in' on that experience again. I don't even really want a refund. I'd just as soon read a story about CI-G closing up shop and going away.

Chris Roberts conned the lot of us and we all bought in. I don't think he MEANT to at then start, it just turned out that way. It's the continuing denial, grandiose promises, and 'up sell' tactics that me off.

If and when we get ANYTHING resembling a game out of CI-G, it will be a huge news story. I delete the regular emails telling me I can now buy new ships that I can't really fly, side arms I can't use, space suits I can't wear, or how much progress they've made on a game I can't play. I don't bother with the multi-gig updates. Tell me when it's ready and I'll show up. And even if that happens, there's no guarantee that the single player campaign, or multi-player 'Verse will be any good.

The article in Forbes said it all for me : Mis-management on a galactic scale. It'll never get released.

In the meantime, we have plenty of other space sims to play. Want persistent universe, with multi-player economy, where you can get rich and run a corp ? You got EVE. Want a slower, less complicated experience more focused on the journey, you and your ship ? You got Elite. Plus No Mans Sky, all very playable, here and now.
 
So I heard in the last Calling All Devs they said Chambers is now head of SQ42 and Erin is head of the PU. So he's alive, good news, and he's been pushed aside from what he has been hired for in the first place due to his great experience. This is very revealing of SQ42 past and reassuring (/s) for its future.
 
So I heard in the last Calling All Devs they said Chambers is now head of SQ42 and Erin is head of the PU. So he's alive, good news, and he's been pushed aside from what he has been hired for in the first place due to his great experience. This is very revealing of SQ42 past and reassuring (/s) for its future.
One more CEO paycheck to obble up.
 
I have two things to say to this...
1. If they're boasting about success, their only metrics for success must relate to company benefit, not player benefit. Nice attitude.
2. Any real scammer out there would also boast about another year of success - after raking in money, not providing any product or service, and not getting caught. Note that this statement does not say CIG is a scam. Keep your inferences to yourself. ;)
Put another way, how many years of success did Enron, Lehman or, hell, even Madoff Investments boast about right up until the second they folded within a matter of weeks, not months? :D
 
Personally, I am amazed that this is still being discussed as a subject.

I jumped on board the moment ( and I mean moment ) that it was possible. I have my "golden ticket", t-shirt ( long since worn out and thrown out ), Commanders ID card... It's all just a waste. I think of it like a lottery ticket : I don't expect to win, but that $5 does allow me to fantasize about telling my boss to shove it and buying a 67 Corvette for my eternal road trip. All the money I spent allowed ( just under $200 ) me to share that fantasy, look at cool stuff, and dream about how cool it could be. I remembered all the wonder of Wing Commander, and I wanted 'in' on that experience again. I don't even really want a refund. I'd just as soon read a story about CI-G closing up shop and going away.

Chris Roberts conned the lot of us and we all bought in. I don't think he MEANT to at then start, it just turned out that way. It's the continuing denial, grandiose promises, and 'up sell' tactics that me off.

If and when we get ANYTHING resembling a game out of CI-G, it will be a huge news story. I delete the regular emails telling me I can now buy new ships that I can't really fly, side arms I can't use, space suits I can't wear, or how much progress they've made on a game I can't play. I don't bother with the multi-gig updates. Tell me when it's ready and I'll show up. And even if that happens, there's no guarantee that the single player campaign, or multi-player 'Verse will be any good.

The article in Forbes said it all for me : Mis-management on a galactic scale. It'll never get released.

In the meantime, we have plenty of other space sims to play. Want persistent universe, with multi-player economy, where you can get rich and run a corp ? You got EVE. Want a slower, less complicated experience more focused on the journey, you and your ship ? You got Elite. Plus No Mans Sky, all very playable, here and now.

You don't think he meant to con you when he released a trailer for a game that didn't exist? That he just had crytek whip up and said lets pretend we have a game and a foundation. Its been a con since day one.
 
Stealing this from over at SA:

Mr.PayDay said:
https://www.gamespodcast.de/2020/03/15/runde-258-warum-spiele-verschoben-werden-ft-ralf-adam/

"Auf ein Bier" is the biggest and most successful Videogames podcast in german language. It was founded by the ex Gamestar guys Andre Peschke and Jochen Gebauer. Their recent podcast is talking about deadlines, postponed games, project management and production of video games and the definition of "Alpha" and "Beta" and so on.

After 29 minutes, they started to talk briefly about Star Citizen, and that is the moment where Ralf Adam.... (https://www.slideshare.net/RalfCAdam/ works in the game industry in 1993. Worked for publishers and developers in different positions, among them Infogrames/Atari, Sunflowers Entertainment and JoWooD Productions, Disney Interactive, Eidos and Vivendi Universal as well as writing for numerous games magazines. Experience and expertise in producing, writing, game design, localisation and project management), one of the most known game design veterans with expertise and reputation and who actually is coaching and teaching game design and production (https://www.macromedia-fachhochschu...pzig-mit-ralf-adam-tiger-team-production.html)....

....actually starts laughing. 😂

Please let that sink in when you can read in the sc reddit that so called "I am a game developer, and everything is fine with Star citizen developement!"-wannabes are telling us that they do understand game developement, but everyone of
1.) Something Awful
2.) the refund sub
3.) anyone who critizes SC/CIG/Chris Roberts does not.

Ralf Adam, an actual videogame industry veteran and expert in game design and production (in contrast to all made up self claimed "developers" of the main sub) laughed a [bleep]ing minute after he heard the words "Star Citizen", and this is all you need to know.


User Ranting_Demon was so nice to post a summary of that amazing podcast episode:
"I don't have the time to listen to the full bit about Star Citizen right now but even the first couple of minutes of the SC segment are pure gold.

• He says that even without having inside knowledge of the project it's possible to use Star Citizen as an example for 75% of all reasons why games get delayed
• He instantly mentions Star Citizen in the same breath as Daikatana and Duke Nukem Forever
• He openly laughs and mocks the suggestion that an engine switch like CryEngine to Lumberyard would be even possible in two days (or even easy at all)
• He mentions that developers who want their games to be visually impressive but take too much time may end up in a position that even though they got everything working they need to start over again because their finished game is no longer looking good compared to actual industry visual standards.

And I might add, all of the above is just from the first 4 minutes of the whole Star Citizen segment.

Edit:

Listened a bit more to it in the background.

Most of the segment was only loosely connected to Star Citizen and more about proper pre-production, planning and producing of a game title. But there were a couple of things that did stand out in direct relation to Star Citizen.

• He said that Chris Roberts' way to produce Star Citizen looks like he's working without emphasis on critically important features but instead he seems to jump around wildly to work on various features he finds cool which indicates that there is no proper development plan. Working on cool but unimportant features first means when push comes to shove and you are running short on on both time and money, you are forced to cut essential gameplay features with no more room to manoeuvre which you would have had if you had started on the essential stuff first.
He does not agree at all with Star Citizen's use of the term alpha when they are still adding new features. According to him an alpha as a term used within the games industry is feature locked and not an open grab bag.
• In a proper pre-production of a game all the important game features should already be set up in working demos with no or only minimal artists' involvement just to get a feel for what devs will be working on and what is essential for the game. Artists work on general concept art to define the tone of what the game will look like without going into ultra-specific details. This is all done before actually working on an alpha or pre-alpha.
• The guy who runs the podcast mentions he has personally talked to people involved with Star Citizen and Squadron 42 and he says that even back in the very veeeeery early days when it was just the minimal product (even without any of the kickstarter goals) the devs were fully aware that the release date of 2014 was not possible to achieve. This is mentioned as an example of a common thing within the games industry; it's better to sign a contract based on impossible deadlines and/or too little money for the project and get the money now (and then renegotiate later for more money and more time) than to stand firm on an accurate pre-production plan with enough time and money but nobody will sign a contract with you. But the big reveal is still: People at the heart of CIG knew that a 2014 release date for even the most basic version was basically a lie to get more people to give money for a game that was promised to release "soon."
• He says a game producer should never be in love with developing the games he makes but should instead love shipping the games he makes. If the guy in charge fawns over little details and says "Oh, this is so cool. We should add this and that and you should paint this thing in this way to make it look more awesome" he will never get a game released but instead it will be forever stuck in production limbo. The guy in charge should never be the one to add more bells and whistles but the one who says No and cuts unimportant features from the list so a game can move forward and make it to release.
 
Last edited:

dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
If the guy in charge fawns over little details and says "Oh, this is so cool. We should add this and that and you should paint this thing in this way to make it look more awesome" he will never get a game released but instead it will be forever stuck in production limbo. The guy in charge should never be the one to add more bells and whistles but the one who says No and cuts unimportant features from the list so a game can move forward and make it to release.

But what if there is a blue pixel that should be green?
 
But what if there is a blue pixel that should be green?

Buy our new pixel colour changer in the Store, of course! You can use it to craft the finest pixel ever fidelitised,

New money only, you can't use store credit earned on existing pixels. This new pixel will be individually serial numbered and signed by Genuine Roberts himself. You can store it in our brand new Pixel Hangar - and gawp at your new unique pixel from all angles, watch as it punches above it's weight in 1000 pixel battlegrounds in a new, never been done before, more lethal than Duty of Call arena we're calling "jpeg" that is in the very earliest stages of development.
 
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