However, this poses a huge ethical problem for the doctors who are forced to make choices.
I saw in interviews.
General / Off-Topic The safest place
- Thread starter Robin of Spiritwood
- Start date
- Status
I saw in interviews.
Well, that was not what I meant. I assumed the suggestion was to read-up on triage to know the various methods and approaches that have been used in the past. Honestly, I know little to nothing about triage. However, the concept of 'when resources are limited you're gonna have to make a choice, and you're probably not going to spend it on the weakest and least likely to survive.' is so incredibly obvious that I am familiar with that. But that isn't so much about studying internet resources as, well (and no offense intended) common sense.
Reports so far are similar in NL, FR and IT. This is not so much about variance, and I can assure you plenty of <50YO will require hospitalization in the US. Unfortunately. Some puzzling is why English media are not picking up on this, because there is plenty about this in Dutch, French and Italian media. My Spanish blows balls so I can't speak for that, maybe a spanish community member here knows more?
Do not get any illusions !
In times of health war, we must all stand together, but when the epidemic is over, you will once again be the public enemy No. 1
Lets hope that is the case. I am reading a lot on various national forums. I see a lot of Americans gloating about the catastrophy caused by 'filthy, snobby and elitist europeans who dont respect America' and a lot of pre-emptive gloating from Europeans who cannot wait to rub the nose of the American people in the approaching disaster because they 'should have listened to their warnings about Trump'.
At this point I hope that Europe, after it recovers, immediately shifts gears to aid the US. Just like Asia immediately shift gears to help Europe when they dealt with it. It isnt much reported in western media, but when all of it started in Wuhan Taiwan and South-Korea immediately shipped masks and such to China. Now S-Korea is widely praised for their extensive testing routines; a lot of those kits were flown in by China.
This is global. I hope all elements in our communities get that.
For every person they call out for giving false contact information after testing positive there are a hundred more who will never get tested because they fear doing so will bring unrelated trouble upon them. The fact that they were going to order the hospital to violate patent privacy to find this individual and that the hospital turned over surveillance tapes voluntarily almost certain scared away scores of others.
Every contagious person is prone to infect many others and the goal is to improve contact tracing, not sabotage it. Many people with a delinquent payment, a warrant out for them, who are the country illegally, or who simply value their privacy, are going to read that story and categorically rule out getting tested until they are on their death beds.
This was handled extremely poorly. They should have tracked this individual down discretely and made an announcement reassuring people that their privacy would be respected, rather than demonstrating otherwise. Failing that, even ignoring this individual would have been better than scaring off others...unless the goal is to be punitive, rather than to actually safeguard public health.
This is such an American thing...
Korea numbers are probably most acurate. They have managed to control the spread and have less under reporting of infected.
A few more of the infected Koreans may still die, but 1% is a probably a good estimate.
I haven't seen too much of that, but I'm quick to strike it down wherever whenever I come across it. This is a time to set aside rivalry and pull together like most of us have never experienced. Even if it's just a good attitude we can send to our brothers and sisters, sometimes that can make all the difference. For the record though, to those disparaging American leadership; give it a frickin rest. The roll out of testing kits was pretty underwhelming, but there are reasons and they can't all be layed at his feat. Meanwhile, looking forward, America is doing as good a job as anyone else in coping. Feeling comfortable singling Trump out as being incompetent rests on the absurd premise that everyone else has done such a great job in getting it licked, which outside of authoritarian dictatorships is patently untrue.
Last edited:
And I just found the story on CNN that details the report Ian had cited earlier concerning mortality projections in the UK and USA. In all honesty, I consider this kind of news story a wildly irresponsible example of fear mongering. Strike that: panic mongering. What value is there in the media sharing a story about a model that may turn out to be accurate, or could also turn out to be wildly inaccurate and right now only serves to frighten and confuse people? Once you get over the shock of the numbers, you realize that this article had only one purpose, and that purpose was not to be helpful. Why was this released to the media at all by the center responsible for building the model?
That is a rhetorical question, right?
I'll answer it anyway.
Of course it wasn't given to the media in that form. There are basically two possibilites.
a) the media obtained a partial information and ran with it because it fits their scaremongering agenda
b) it was given to the media but they cherry-picked only the parts that fit their scaremongering agenda
Because that's what media do. Long gone are the days when media mediated information. Nowadays they give you their opinions if you're lucky. If you're not, it's simply misinformation, doomsaying and OMB.
I'd run with the numbers from S.Korea. Mainly because their percentages are most accurate as they tested the most people. I believe that almost anybody in Korea that had COVID was tested and confirmed as they tested an awful lot of people. More per hour than the rest of the world did per day, actually. So the rest of the world's numbers are skewed by the simple fact that tens or hundreds of thousands of people with COVID simply aren't and won't be tested and confirmed as actual cases and the mortality rates will appear much higher.
Good analysis of the rationale various countries are trying, analysed by graphs and with projections of outcome. Worth a look, even if a bit long.
eg:
- Let's just do nothing, result high death rate, but herd immunity and shorter economic damage
- Let's have draconian quarantines, result good low death rate, but it goes on for several months, the economy dies, and most people have no immunity at the end, so you get ANOTHER high death rate spike anyway.
So- how to scale the effort? It's looked at in the video.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200305132039.htm <- paper on basic science research, leading to the promise of a medicine already available as a treatment.
Last edited:
UV light kills the virus, it only survive in a cold and wet climate, so 4 - 8 C, it’s not so much airborne as we first imagined, it stays on surfaces and when you touch it and later touch your face you will be infected.
That’s why washing your hands is important, use gloves if you can, place a bucket outside your home and drop them before you enter, burn the gloves afterwards. Do your laundry often to keep them clean, if you can’t use hot water, add vinegar to the soap. If you share your house with animals control where they go and what they eat.
one of my neighbors needed some assistance yesterday, an as he is an elderly person, lost his wife a few years back, we decided to take him in while this crazy thing is going on, basically he had to strip, take a shower and we gave him new clothes and after my brother-in-law gave the ok after the medical he is now part of our little group.
as I said we are in contact with our community, and no one can just pop in uninvited, not even Kevlar will protect, we will check on his place daily just in case some critter decide to invade it. Interesting times for sure.
kung flu fighting !
That’s why washing your hands is important, use gloves if you can, place a bucket outside your home and drop them before you enter, burn the gloves afterwards. Do your laundry often to keep them clean, if you can’t use hot water, add vinegar to the soap. If you share your house with animals control where they go and what they eat.
one of my neighbors needed some assistance yesterday, an as he is an elderly person, lost his wife a few years back, we decided to take him in while this crazy thing is going on, basically he had to strip, take a shower and we gave him new clothes and after my brother-in-law gave the ok after the medical he is now part of our little group.
as I said we are in contact with our community, and no one can just pop in uninvited, not even Kevlar will protect, we will check on his place daily just in case some critter decide to invade it. Interesting times for sure.
kung flu fighting !
Last edited:
This virus and situation is an incitement to the paranoia.
How can we think of everything ?
How not to exhaust ourself from doing everything ?
It is almost impossible during 24 hours not to put our hand to our face.
A moment of inadvertence is always possible. One study saysthat an average, a person puts their hand to the face 3000 times a day.
A crazy story this Corona.
Research such as this is done by universities and other tax-funded institutions. As a scientist, your career is dependent on publications in peer-reviewed journals. Each journal has an impact factor, which is roughly speaking an indication of how frequently articles in this journal are cited by others. The higher the impact factor, the higher the prestige of the journal. These journals are published by private corporations. Universities have subscriptions, which allows staff and student to study the articles. People outside of academia do not have access to them, so they need to pay per article. Typically about $40.
Now this is an issue: you already paid for the article via your taxes. Why should you pay pay for it again, and even to a corporation? Scientist did the work and aren't being paid by the corporation for their submission, peer-review is done by other scientists who also ain't being paid for it, so this makes no sense. As such there are two solutions:
1) Open-access journals: the reader doesn't pay, the scientist who wants to publish does. A potential issue here is that it can lead to a slippery slope where journals accept weaker and weaker papers because they get paid no matter if anyone reads them. As such these journals tend to have the aura of low quality, which makes it less interesting to publish quality science in.
2) Press services: universities have press statements and packages so that the media can present results to the public. And that is where you run into your issue: science is not particularly well-presented by for-profit media in a culture where people expect literally everything to be presented as the trailer to a new action movie. "This new DANGER hides in PLAIN SIGHT. Is YOUR family in DANGER? Find out after these commercials!"
And here we are. When the people prefer entertainment over news, that inevitably results in the news devolving into entertainment. Which is cool when it is about football, your average weather report, and so on. But when you need real news, this is not so good.
Last edited:
Neither of these is correct. If you sneeze it remains contagious in the air for up to three hours. The virus survives up to 56C (obviously your body is warmer than 4-8C), with ideal temperatures in the 8-15C range, which is slighly below SARS' ideal conditions.
In France they begin to move patients from one region to another depending on whether hospitals are saturated or not.
For example from north to south by military aircraft.
For example from north to south by military aircraft.
I thought you were exaggerating with 3 hours. Then I read this;
How Far Can A Sneeze Spread Germs?
Most people understand coughing and sneezing can spread germs that cause illness, but the speed and distance they can travel might surprise you.
www.healthline.com
“Given the small size of bioaerosol droplets (diameter less than the width of a human hair), they can remain suspended in the air for prolonged periods of time, from seconds to weeks,”
No, indeed neither joking nor exaggerating. You can also shed viruses when merely breathing while asymptomatic yet infected.
- Status