Open Gun-ports = open for pvp : Pilots federations rule of the duel

[CMDR M. Lehman]

I said I fly an Adder, so it's fun to see a wing of gankers gloat during interdiction thinking they will utterly destroy a starter ship

Spoiler: My Adder is called El-ahrairah for a reason

Basically I'm cat-fishing, when engineered properly, and kept light, the Adder is the 3rd fastest ship in the game,
and I'm barely in their instance in normal space because I'm already 5km away by the second boost, 7km by the third.
So I sometimes tend to drop some chaffs, do a u-turn boost past them in the opposite direction, then jump out.

Then they interdict me, again, and again, thinking they might get a lucky shot. Some-do, Harry potter being one of them when I asked him for a duel, as to be honest, I'm not that good a pilot
Sometimes, I get caught of-guard, and I'm weighted down with some swag or opted to toss on some weapons/ armour, or still have an SRV from a scanning mission, which does drop the Adders speed down significantly to the engineered speeds of an FDL, (as one FDL Ganker taught me about 4 nights back, but not quite as slow as an Engineered FDL.
I could do it an iCourier or an iEagle, but they know what's to expect, people overlook the Adder because its a starter ship, with no hope of being one of the fastest ships in the galaxy, with a few special modifications of course.

But here is the rub,
I'm sure more people would politely enjoy the spice of the open life; enjoy an interdiction, enjoy loosing at combat,
if asked politely and mutual respect as gamers given, so quarter was to be assured and given if it was to be asked for.
so you wouldn't have to lose months of exploration data or precious cargo, from someone who thinks your grief is fuel for their humour because this game, and the effort we put in, is as they point out - a joke. And it stops us from enjoying it.

Opening gun ports as or closing them as a sign of submission, doesn't NEED to be law,
but a polite rule of thumb,
And we create some trust in other pilots, building a community of commanders who don't feel the need to leg it whenever they see another commander on their scopes.
Or just blasting away hoping to do damage so they can leg it before the open person can open the chat to say "o7, nice night, fancy winging up to ......"

I've heard PvP pirates complain about gankers, because of this evasive environment the gankers have created, as soon as the player pirates have successfully interdicted another player, they are FORCED to attack like crazy, to keep the other player from jumping out, and THEN they get to ask "stand or deliver"
As soon as the booty is dropped, they are left alone to lick their wounds.

So there are far more sides of this game that get damaged by the Gankers, who have little respect for the game and the gamers they abuse, as it is just a joke to them.

Sorry, bud. This isn't an "ask politely" kind of game.

 

[Boff'in]

But we are all pilots of the pilots federation
The dip-sheeping gankers don't even have the

• IMAGINATION,
• vision or
• intellect

To even conceive that Pilots doing a gun-port parley routines benefits them as well.
Heaven forbid we create an icy, trust between pilots within the pilots federation, and even so, that's the best-case scenario. An icy trust.

they don't get commanders running away, and they get commander politely come to a stand, expecting to parley, as one party does the salute and the naive commander expects the salute (or lack there off) to be honoured. Which it might.....
For this interdiction.....but after the third interdiction, the commander is getting a little peeved that the gun-port-parley is keeping him alive, but not letting him play his game.

Maybe the duel is accepted, and the ganker (with no honour) lets a good few shots on him, and pulls in his gun ports, and the "nice" commander, accepts the submission.
and then the Ganker lets loose his better weapons he has not unveiled yet.

or, maybe it's a lone Sheep-dipping ganker, who allow themselves to be interdicted as bait (as I do in my Adder), because he has a wing of his squad-mates who have been loitering in normal-space out of the contacts panel, who jump back into supercruise... zero down on the wake, and then drop into the instance and suddenly it's 5 ships against 1.

or thank to the gun-port-parley routine, they strike up a friendly PVE even, and then they get interdicted and suddenly our ganker has been a sheep dipper, but in wolves clothing all this time, and swaps wings and blows away our naive commander.

Doing the gun-port-parley creates far more delicious, devious, cut-throat, malicious and nasty ways us boring old Commanders could become cat-fished, scammed, tricked and featured on a hidden camera youtube web series, as the ultimate butt of some very elaborate and very cruel jokes, all down to us other commanders creating an icy-trust via gun-port parley, as earning our trust is just some additional fore-play dor them

But the Ship-dipping Courts Jesting Gankers can't even think that far ahead.

So seriously, what are they complaining about having an gun-port Parley system that they can obviously ignore anyway in this cut-throat and dangerous galaxy, or even just play along with for giggles.
the rest of us get along just under a fragile icy truce, and can relax..justa little bit, (with one eye on the info-panel, Cmdr XXXXX has deployed hardpoints)
it's win-win for everyone, wouldn't you say?

 

[ZAKALWEINC8876]

 

[Just Paul]

Did you ever read the books set in the Elite universe? Start with "The Dark Wheel" which came with the first game in 1984. The stuff you proposing is just weird. It makes no sense in the context of Elite's setting.

Setup a PG with your rules, advertise it on all the usual outlets, and see how many people are willing to partake.

 

[Hoopes81]

So seriously, what are they complaining about having an gun-port Parley system that they can obviously ignore anyway in this cut-throat and dangerous galaxy, or even just play along with for giggles.

This right here is why your idea doesn't work. If it can be ignored then gankers still gank.

So what you're describing is just Open with more steps.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Exactly, what you are doing is NOT playing the game, you disrespect the game and it’s player base with this Juvenile joke which you defend as “part of the game”.

I can assure you only a Limited few find entertaining.
No one else Is laughing. But we’ve tolerated this nonsense for long enough.
Many are upset by your jokes as they loose progress. Sometimes days, weeks even months of progress.

People Play in open for player the challenge of adverserial combat and player collaboration.

Your joke is not Adversarial challenge or
player verses player because that would mean the people You target had a chance, where as
Your joke is to harass, overwhelm
And ruin someone playing a game and imposing your joke,
Your playing style
your game onto them,
Disrespecting the game and the community by Bullying and someone’s game away from them.
And then laughing that they picked the wrong mode.


Pick the right mode? Damn right I do.
I play in open. I don’t cheat. I don’t combat log.

Because sometimes, you pick the wrong target -
ME.

I do not need an op-ship or wing of OP ships to remove challenge.

I’ve been ganked by likes of you in my little adder and I have the pleasure of ruinning your night by just being a better class of pilot where all your supposed might, power, is revealed to be the pathetic joke that you really are.


As ever, I’ll see you out in the black.

Wew lad. I really hit a nerve there, didn't I? Someday I hope you can learn to laugh at yourself and not take things so seriously.

Besides, a speed Adder? Not exactly something that's gonna rattle my head space, kid.

 

[Boff'in]

This right here is why your idea doesn't work. If it can be ignored then gankers still gank.

So what you're describing is just Open with more steps.

Stowing in your weapons, flying under a banner of truce? Who would conceive of such a real-world scenario which has been used for millennia, still be used for millennia to come?

I agree, in the grand tradition of Parley,
it can be ignored and it will be willfully ignored at that
because they don't care about other peoples game won't care
As it's all just a big joke to them.

So why do we have forum members in this very thread who are open about being gankers
expressing everyone else's way of playing a game is delegitimized in the face of their joke,

Fight against something they aren't going to do anyway?
No skin off their nose, am-i-right?

 

[aRJay]

Stowing in your weapons, flying under a banner of truce? Who would conceive of such a real-world scenario which has been used for millennia, still be used for millennia to come?

I agree, in the grand tradition of Parley,
it can be ignored and it will be willfully ignored at that
because they don't care about other peoples game won't care
As it's all just a big joke to them.

So why do we have forum members in this very thread who are open about being gankers
expressing everyone else's way of playing a game is delegitimized in the face of their joke,

Fight against something they aren't going to do anyway?
No skin off their nose, am-i-right?

The problem with your real world millennia old banner of truce is it started to become more symbolic than effective as aerial combat and combat beyond visual range became common.

Now parley and truce and the like still happen but they aren’t arranged by waving a flag or lowering undercarriage they are negotiated by talking to the other side which would only work in the game if the opponent was listening or looking at their comms window, I am sure I am not the only one who checks his comms after the complicated flying and fighting bits are over after all most of the messages are spam anyway.

 

[Boff'in]

Wew lad. I really hit a nerve there, didn't I? Someday I hope you can learn to laugh at yourself and not take things so seriously.

Besides, a speed Adder? Not exactly something that's gonna rattle my head space, kid.

To be honest? Aye lad, you've hit a nerve and I think the community has gotten hit on the same nerve to the point we've gotten numb to these exploits,
we all have been incorporating it into our play-style for years now.
In all seriousness, I do enjoy it, but only when I'm prepared for it (of course).

However, a noob complained on Friday night that his freshly bought Anaconda got scrapped just outside the docking ring. A trader, Explorer, not much into combat.
Like a lot of non-combative players, we aren't toiling through engineering combat meta to find ways of debilitating and shutting down a ship so it can't run, like the heat-meta, or super long-range beam cannons so however far they boost, in a normal ship, they have nowhere to run. (unless they just got catfished by a speed adder )

I am so happy to talk to you. Because you express use expression and words, that exposes the mindset - that I just can't fathom.

In counter-point 17 pages in,
I think I have ALSO hit a nerve. (although I think 10 pages of that was BGS and PVP argument that the moderators felt like they had to jump in)

No, I can't look back on this in years to come, and think, maybe, I shouldn't take it seriously?
Surely, that's the point of you little japes? To make a mockery of our seriousness?
Does it bother you so much to be reminded that some people do take their games more seriously than you?

And if people voluntarily add in an extra step in their "open" game to add a cautious trust-building exercise, which you will ignore, or go along with to
Why fight it?

 

[Rubbernuke]

To be honest? Aye lad, you've hit a nerve and I think the community has gotten hit on the same nerve to the point we've gotten numb to these exploits,
we all have been incorporating it into our play-style for years now.
In all seriousness, I do enjoy it, but only when I'm prepared for it (of course).

However, a noob complained on Friday night that his freshly bought Anaconda got scrapped just outside the docking ring. A trader, Explorer, not much into combat.
Like a lot of non-combative players, we aren't toiling through engineering combat meta to find ways of debilitating and shutting down a ship so it can't run, like the heat-meta, or super long-range beam cannons so however far they boost, in a normal ship, they have nowhere to run. (unless they just got catfished by a speed adder )

I am so happy to talk to you. Because you express use expression and words, that exposes the mindset - that I just can't fathom.

In counter-point 17 pages in,
I think I have ALSO hit a nerve. (although I think 10 pages of that was BGS and PVP argument that the moderators felt like they had to jump in)

No, I can't look back on this in years to come, and think, maybe, I shouldn't take it seriously?
Surely, that's the point of you little japes? To make a mockery of our seriousness?
Does it bother you so much to be reminded that some people do take their games more seriously than you?

And if people voluntarily add in an extra step in their "open" game to add a cautious trust-building exercise, which you will ignore, or go along with to
Why fight it?

numb to these exploits

Eh? Destroying someones ship is not an exploit.

In all seriousness, I do enjoy it, but only when I'm prepared for it (of course).

Which should be all the time.

However, a noob complained on Friday night that his freshly bought Anaconda got scrapped just outside the docking ring. A trader, Explorer, not much into combat.
Like a lot of non-combative players, we aren't toiling through engineering combat meta to find ways of debilitating and shutting down a ship so it can't run, like the heat-meta, or super long-range beam cannons so however far they boost, in a normal ship, they have nowhere to run. (unless they just got catfished by a speed adder )

Its on them to survive. Either go to places that are remote or less traveled, or be prepared and vigilant. Sounds like another tin foil build. Remember:

Can't do that, team up or use other modes.

And if people voluntarily add in an extra step in their "open" game to add a cautious trust-building exercise, which you will ignore, or go along with to
Why fight it?

There is nothing stopping you trying to establish this. But the problem is it won't solve anything in SC, and the people who will destroy you won't care anyway so its wasted time. Now, learning to avoid ganking? Now thats worthwhile.

 

[Boff'in]

The problem with your real world millennia old banner of truce is it started to become more symbolic than effective as aerial combat and combat beyond visual range became common.

Now parley and truce and the like still happen but they aren’t arranged by waving a flag or lowering undercarriage they are negotiated by talking to the other side which would only work in the game if the opponent was listening or looking at their comms window, I am sure I am not the only one who checks his comms after the complicated flying and fighting bits are over after all most of the messages are spam anyway.

So maybe as some commander pointed out in the "Suggestions forum"
To highlight the other ships state.
So the Targeting reticule has "o" on a corner for gun-port status.
The scanner augments, the shape/colour/orientation of the Cubes on the scanner to signify, weapons hot, or if they are scanning you?


Space-legs might stop Ship death
The current mechanic that when the ships hull hits Zero, the ship explodes and the pilot respawns.
And I've been thinking about this since the launch of the game and the allure of space legs.

The fun thing with Space legs is, it has a series of network and gameplay issues that does not gel with that gameplay loop.
With Legs, we expect a players ship becomes game area in its own right, agreed?

• an area to explore
• an area to repair/clean/maintain
• an area to fight in (board, or repel boarders)
• an area to co-operate in

How are these new game areas and game mechanics supposed to then accessed, if a pilots ship is just to explode instantly as they do today?
The solution would be, the ships don't explode, but remain, unpowered and venting into space.

Thus creating an ADDITIONAL gameplay loop, where Pilots would then have to be boarded, to kill the commander outright.
Allowing hatch-limpets to be attached unimpeded, or the ship could be boarded and the cargo hatch is opened from the inside (if they are going to stick to pirating).
But does this mean, the gankers then must leave their OWN ship, pilotless in order to board another players ship? or will we have remote drones to fly in?
Because whilst this gameplay loop is happening, the System Security is responding.
Oh did that wing of overpowered Federal Corvettes just get impounded, as a 4 sheep dipping commanders toy with a commander inside their own ship?

Oh did you decide to combat log, whilst people are onboard, these removing the game-area they were in well, of course, you would!
But what if that game area (your ship) was to REMAIN in the instance, to be used and abused, so the act of combat logging, means you eject, leaving your ship to be looted by the other players and impounded by the authorities which you have to pay for the next play session.
So the safest and cheapest combat log would be to activate the self destruct.

So getting ganked, spam-interdicted, and overpowered, might be annoying, but it won't be the end of the gaming session. Because they need to get onboard to finished the job before the authorities come.

So maybe having a gun-port banner of truce to ascertain player expectations, might not be needed, but it might become a side effect to side-step the above, to maintain how people like to play today, that quarter is given naturally when hull reaches zero?

 

[Screemonster]

the long and the short of it is that no matter how many words you throw up, you have no power to make me do anything

the more you whine and stamp your feet at the fact that I'm not doing what you tell me to do, the less inclined I am to do it out of niceness

 

[Boff'in]

Eh? Destroying someones ship is not an exploit.



Which should be all the time.



Its on them to survive. Either go to places that are remote or less traveled, or be prepared and vigilant. Sounds like another tin foil build. Remember:

View attachment 166702

Can't do that, team up or use other modes.



There is nothing stopping you trying to establish this. But the problem is it won't solve anything in SC, and the people who will destroy you won't care anyway so its wasted time. Now, learning to avoid ganking? Now thats worthwhile.

So?
you ignore the gun-port handshake and still get to be cut-throat bad-guys.
I'm not FORCING you to do it.
I'm just saying other people, might adopt it.
and the pilots who might voluntarily come to a stand-still to show some manners, and handshake with their gunports after a SC-inderdiction, will just make things easier for you.

no skin of your nose,
what are you complaining about?

 

[Screemonster]

So?
you ignore the gun-port truce and still get to be cut-throat bad-guys.
I'm not FORCING you to do it.
I'm just saying everyone else, might adopt it.
and the pilots who might voluntarily come to a stand-still to show some manners, to signal with their gunports after a SC-inderdiction, will just make things easier for you.

no skin of your nose,
what are you complaining about?

it's a dangerous idea to get into a new commander's head that there's this "agreement" in place between the players that's only going to lead to more salt from them when they show up on the forums complaining that someone broke "the rules"

 

[Just Paul]

silly stuff

As it seems we are at proposing silly rules I'm going to add mine.
If a CMDR sees another CMDR outside the noob area with an ADC they are obliged to engage and try to destroy the offender. After all it's called the pilot's federation and not the flying aid federation. If they don't destroy the offender or the offender escapes they themselves become valid targets for other CMDRs. It will be fun for everybody.

If you want to use your rules you are more then welcome to, but don't expect anybody else to use them or follow them. As you are writing like you are the spokesperson for the community (which community? enlighten me, please) you should just go ahead and life by your rules. The community you are speaking for will follow them too, I assume.

For a moment I will pretend that I don't like bounty hunter CMDRs coming after me and them trying to collect the bounty on my ship. If I follow your logic they should leave me alone because that's my way of playing the game. After all I just like to defend the little guys and kill all the police and bounty hunter npcs who are after the misunderstood anarchy faction npcs.

Somebody who can afford an Anaconda is no longer a noob and that person should be able to handle or at least understand what flying in open entails.
Slapping some EPTs in an Adder makes it a fun ship but not much more.

Stop pretending you are speaking for the community as a whole, you are not. Your etiquette proposal is in the top 3 of out-of-touch silly things on how to improve open mode I read lately and there were some wowzers, you can be proud of that.

So maybe as some commander pointed out in the "Suggestions forum"
To highlight the other ships state.
So the Targeting reticule has "o" on a corner for gun-port status.
The scanner augments, the shape/colour/orientation of the Cubes on the scanner to signify, weapons hot, or if they are scanning you?


Space-legs might stop Ship death
The current mechanic that when the ships hull hits Zero, the ship explodes and the pilot respawns.
And I've been thinking about this since the launch of the game and the allure of space legs.

The fun thing with Space legs is, it has a series of network and gameplay issues that does not gel with that gameplay loop.
With Legs, we expect a players ship becomes game area in its own right, agreed?

• an area to explore
• an area to repair/clean/maintain
• an area to fight in (board, or repel boarders)
• an area to co-operate in

How are these new game areas and game mechanics supposed to then accessed, if a pilots ship is just to explode instantly as they do today?
The solution would be, the ships don't explode, but remain, unpowered and venting into space.

Thus creating an ADDITIONAL gameplay loop, where Pilots would then have to be boarded, to kill the commander outright.
Allowing hatch-limpets to be attached unimpeded, or the ship could be boarded and the cargo hatch is opened from the inside (if they are going to stick to pirating).
But does this mean, the gankers then must leave their OWN ship, pilotless in order to board another players ship? or will we have remote drones to fly in?
Because whilst this gameplay loop is happening, the System Security is responding.
Oh did that wing of overpowered Federal Corvettes just get impounded, as a 4 sheep dipping commanders toy with a commander inside their own ship?

Oh did you decide to combat log, whilst people are onboard, these removing the game-area they were in well, of course, you would!
But what if that game area (your ship) was to REMAIN in the instance, to be used and abused, so the act of combat logging, means you eject, leaving your ship to be looted by the other players and impounded by the authorities which you have to pay for the next play session.
So the safest and cheapest combat log would be to activate the self destruct.

So getting ganked, spam-interdicted, and overpowered, might be annoying, but it won't be the end of the gaming session. Because they need to get onboard to finished the job before the authorities come.

So maybe having a gun-port banner of truce to ascertain player expectations, might not be needed, but it might become a side effect to side-step the above, to maintain how people like to play today, that quarter is given naturally when hull reaches zero?

And just then I though it couldn't get any sillier you surprised me. I want to see you boarding every npc ship you shoot at and how much fun that would be after the 100s time. How will combat zones work, do I have to board every ship to get the job done? You know there is no difference between npcs and CMDRs in regards to game mechanics?

What are you doing in game to come up with stuff like that? Do you use Elite as Trucking Simulator: Space? I just want to understand from where all this is coming from.

 

[Rubbernuke]

So?
you ignore the gun-port truce and still get to be cut-throat bad-guys.
I'm not FORCING you to do it.
I'm just saying everyone else, might adopt it.
and the pilots who might voluntarily come to a stand-still to show some manners, to signal with their gunports after a SC-inderdiction, will just make things easier for you.

no skin of your nose,
what are you complaining about?

I'm not complaining at all, because it makes no difference to me in game and from experience would be pointless- I'm just pointing out what would actually make a difference.

 

[Rubbernuke]

it's a dangerous idea to get into a new commander's head that there's this "agreement" in place between the players that's only going to lead to more salt from them when they show up on the forums complaining that someone broke "the rules"

And them people like me would come along with gifs like this

 

[Boff'in]

Weeeellll, it's not exactly a rule now, it's sort vague guidelines, a matter of polite conduct when it suits you,

So it almost sounds like you are agreeing to have a gunport-handshake as a polite unofficial rule fo conduct between the more serious players, to get them to relax,
would indeed add more fun and entertainment to the game for you?

A win-win scenario for all?

IF you convince the polite commanders to unofficially adopt the handshake

 

[Rubbernuke]

Weeeellll, it's not exactly a rule now, it's sort vague guidelines, a matter of polite conduct when it suits you,

So it almost sounds like you are agreeing to have a gunport-handshake as a polite unofficial rule fo conduct between the more serious players, to get them to relax,
would indeed add more fun and entertainment to the game for you?

A win-win scenario for all?

IF you convince the polite commanders to unofficially adopt the handshake

You can swing your junk to the tune of the hornpipe for all it matters because there are no rules for what you do.

Weeeellll, it's not exactly a rule now, it's sort vague guidelines, a matter of polite conduct when it suits you,

Well, I think most commanders after being interdicted are more concerned about living than checking if the handshake was legit.

A better handshake would be to see who is around you, are they triangles (being weapons out, i.e. in handshake terms person is balling fists), fly defensively and escape.

 

[thelion]

The circle is now complete. We had this thread last year. And maybe the year before too.

Ah, the circle of strife, what what.

Yes, I think that's right, it had that piano playing Lion in it or something.

Tatty bye