Engineers Ship Builds & Load Outs Unlocking JURI ISHMAAK

[D.D.Hariman]

OK. I really want to upgrade my DSS and the shortest path to do that looks like JURI ISHMAAK even though I hate combat.

I have a Python already and I am looking at this for my build.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

Plan to use the gimballed just to turn something hostile and try to keep the top facing the enemy. That should give me plenty of killing power without draining the weapons capacitor very often since the gimballed and the bottom turret would not be firing continuously. That should keep a PD on a front UM facing the right way as well.

I hope to fly my 2 ship Squadron/Wing (HASL) in PG and I already know that only the ship that is attacked sees the attacker as "hostile" so to get the second ship into the action I will need to have it carryout an attack on the ship that is attacking the other ship.

BUT, if I am reading the instructions on how to do this correctly, as soon as I join a "faction" all the enemy will immediately show as hostile in which case I wouldn't need the gimbaled at all. Just set to target only and get into range.
Alternatively.
Set to ANY HOSTILE and plow through the middle of the fight to get a hit on as many as possible and hope the "friendlies" kill them within the time limit for me to get credit.

I suspect, based on what happens with Sentinels, the PD will always work and my experience with the ECM says that it should also work on anything in range so If I keep the ships close, the PD and ECM should protect both.

SO. A few questions.

1. Do the ships in a wing also share the combat Bond Credits?
2. Would it be useful to carry an AFMU?

 

[F4fred]

Why have you gone with a 5A PP as you don’t have enough power for everything when you deploy hard points? You would be better with a larger PP and armoured engineering which should give you enough power and some protection for the PP. Also you don’t need A rated sensors, fit D rated and save some weight.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

Why have you gone with a 5A PP as you don’t have enough power for everything when you deploy hard points? You would be better with a larger PP and armoured engineering which should give you enough power and some protection for the PP. Also you don’t need A rated sensors, fit D rated and save some weight.

Excuse me?? Did you look at that Build. OPPS, my bad. Here is a new link to the BUILD.
https://coriolis.io/outfit/python?c...BUIEsC2AHApgJzQEMAbAfQGMBXAF2vwggEYBOVxVKIA==
The standard 5A was covering everything with some power management settings.. But the actual PP I will be using is a 5A G5 OverCharged and Stripped Down. The only stock power plant that makes more power is a 7A.. That was why I Engineered the 5A. So Unless I do something really strange, that PP will run almost anything.

 

[Stabby_Dave]

I'd swap the 2 medium multis for efficient beam lasers with thermal vent for shield stripping. also, engineer one multicannon for corrosive special effect. you won't need to upgrade your pp, if you engineer the beams to grade 5. Also, swap the e rated life support for d rated. I'd also swap the ecm for a heat sink. You'll need it if you're using that shield bank.

 

[SciTrekker]

I'd swap the 2 medium multis for efficient beam lasers with thermal vent for shield stripping. also, engineer one multicannon for corrosive special effect. you won't need to upgrade your pp, if you engineer the beams to grade 5. Also, swap the e rated life support for d rated. I'd also swap the ecm for a heat sink. You'll need it if you're using that shield bank.

Also, the Kill Warrant Scanner is not useful in CZs.

To receive Combat Bonds, you have to get a shot or three on the enemy. It's not very likely your NPC "friends" (of the side you choose) will kill too many of the enemies very quickly (probably not in the entire battle) that your turreted or gimballed weapons get only a shot or three on. My personal experiments & experiences have mixed results with regard to which side will win when you let the NPCs do all/most of the fighting.

PD = point defense. They shoot down incoming missiles and torpedoes if in line of sight of the PD.

EDIT: Wingmates get credits for killing the same enemy as you IF they get a hit on the enemy.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

I'd swap the 2 medium multis for efficient beam lasers with thermal vent for shield stripping. also, engineer one multicannon for corrosive special effect. you won't need to upgrade your pp, if you engineer the beams to grade 5. Also, swap the e rated life support for d rated. I'd also swap the ecm for a heat sink. You'll need it if you're using that shield bank.

Humnn Thought I got rid of all the "e" stuff. Thanks.
I am not planning on doing any more combat than is absolutely necessary to do the unlock. The build I did was aimed at max jump with max standard defense.
Look at the build. Use the comparison tool to match it against stock ships. Since I am mostly harmless as combat rating, I will not likely face anything above stock enemies.

New build with the E Life Support

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

 

[D.D.Hariman]

Also, the Kill Warrant Scanner is not useful in CZs.

Why wouldn't KWS be useful?? No body there on a wanted list anyplace??

 

[SciTrekker]

Humnn Thought I got rid of all the "e" stuff. Thanks.
I am not planning on doing any more combat than is absolutely necessary to do the unlock. The build I did was aimed at max jump with max standard defense.
Look at the build. Use the comparison tool to match it against stock ships. Since I am mostly harmless as combat rating, I will not likely face anything above stock enemies.

New build with the E Life Support

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

Use D-rated Life Supprot for more time and less mass than E-rated.

 

[SciTrekker]

Why would KWS be useful?? No body there on a wanted list anyplace??

Maybe I was looking at the wrong build link, but I saw a KWS in 1 of them. I said they're NOT useful in CZ.

EDIT: Yup, you have it on both linked builds.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

Maybe I was looking at the wrong build link, but I saw a KWS in 1 of them. I said they're NOT useful in CZ.

EDIT: Yup, you have it on both linked builds.

So, NO ONE in any CZ is ever on any wanted list??

 

[F4fred]

Excuse me?? Did you look at that Build. OPPS, my bad. Here is a new link to the BUILD.
https://coriolis.io/outfit/python?code=A2pftkFfljduspf5yHyHyH27280j0001034f5n2dm937---242i.Iw18RQ==.IwBj4zNNSA==.H4sIAAAAAAAAA2P8Z8/AwPCXFUj8qQcSHEc4GRj4bb79/y+2gJ+B4T/zPym4fAWQ4Ff59f+/0A5uBgaRGlEGBok7QJn//xkYAInnwT5IAAAA.MwOgrA9ADOEEzQsBUIEsC2AHApgJzQEMAbAfQGMBXAF2vwggEYBOVxVKIA==
The standard 5A was covering everything with some power management settings.. But the actual PP I will be using is a 5A G5 OverCharged and Stripped Down. The only stock power plant that makes more power is a 7A.. That was why I Engineered the 5A. So Unless I do something really strange, that PP will run almost anything.

I see you spotted it, but the new build has enough power. if you are going for max jump then D rate everything non essential to save weight and if you have access to the appropriate engineers, lightweight Sensors and Life Support, even if you can’t get to grade 5. If you are good with fixed weapons then I hear Frags are good too.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

I see you spotted it, but the new build has enough power. if you are going for max jump then D rate everything non essential to save weight and if you have access to the appropriate engineers, lightweight Sensors and Life Support, even if you can’t get to grade 5. If you are good with fixed weapons then I hear Frags are good too.

I am going to stick with standard turreted multi-cannons.
Using the tools, matching against a Stock Imperial Cutter, there is very little difference between the MC and the C, <40 sec to take shields and another <40 to take the armor, but the FRAG makes it take 72 seconds just to take the shields.
Still trying to decide the tactics since I will be flying both ships in the wing on two side by side computers. (Actually, I have VA Macros that will do most of the flying.) Having the weapons target and track automatically are a must.
The question is still.
Set to TARGET ONLY and pound one ship until it dies, This requires me to do more manual control.
OR
Set to FIRE AT WILL with targeting set to ANY HOSTILE or MOST DANGEROUS and then fly a random course through the battle sphere. This looks like it would require the least manual control on my part, but, it might take a bit longer to get the required credits.

I think before I can decide I need to go build it and then see how it fly"s using my VA commands.

 

[uncle bulgaria]

I found multicannons didn't really cut it against the engineered hulls in CZs, i had more success when I swapped them out for railguns

 

[Fenwe]

I am going to stick with standard turreted multi-cannons.
Using the tools, matching against a Stock Imperial Cutter, there is very little difference between the MC and the C, <40 sec to take shields and another <40 to take the armor, but the FRAG makes it take 72 seconds just to take the shields.
Still trying to decide the tactics since I will be flying both ships in the wing on two side by side computers. (Actually, I have VA Macros that will do most of the flying.) Having the weapons target and track automatically are a must.
The question is still.
Set to TARGET ONLY and pound one ship until it dies, This requires me to do more manual control.
OR
Set to FIRE AT WILL with targeting set to ANY HOSTILE or MOST DANGEROUS and then fly a random course through the battle sphere. This looks like it would require the least manual control on my part, but, it might take a bit longer to get the required credits.

I think before I can decide I need to go build it and then see how it fly"s using my VA commands.

That's the thing about CZs. The ships are tougher there than Rezes. They have better shields and better hulls. The only way a pure MC build will work is if you are disciplined enough to only hit ships that have had their shields stripped and without some decent shields then you better not grab agro, so flying thru the CZ and letting your turrets fire at everything hostile near you sounds iffy to me, but maybe in a low intensity CZ?

Personally, I wouldn't build it this way. I'd put the beams in the larges because everything medium and smaller you can kill with those, but you seem to love MCs so..

You aren't built to take much damage, so go bi-weave. With the low shield strength, your shields will pop up quickly. Get rid of either the ecm or the point defense. Point defense works well and is automatic. You have a cell bank, but no heat sink. You'll cook yourself if you use it.

This is what I'm suggesting based on your stated preferences and my experience in CZs. This is what I would recommend. You will of course do as you as you wish. Good luck commander.

 

[D.D.Hariman]

I found multicannons didn't really cut it against the engineered hulls in CZs, i had more success when I swapped them out for railguns

OK. My current combat rating is HARMLESS.
I will be playing in PRIVATE GROUP so I will not meet over-engineered human gankers.
Everything I can find about NPC's is that their AI and SHIPS and SHIP EQUIPMENT "scale" based on my combat rating and how much/what kind of ENGINEERING I have done to my ship.
SO.
With this in mind, I should never meet an NPC with anything Engineered.
Remember. I am not planning on making combat a way of life. All I need is the Combat Bonds needed to do the unlock. Based on the Inara and the Wiki, all I need are 50 FEDERAL and maybe as low as 100,000 total to do the unlock.
Ok, Going to Use the 6C Biweave even though it costs me some jump range and the added shielding is minuscule but the recharge rate of :49 VS 2:33 is a substantial improvement.
https://coriolis.io/outfit/python?c...BUIEsC2AHApgJzQEMAbAfQGMBXAF2vwggEYBOVxVKIA==
Not sure I understand the comment that I am "not built to take much damage". I have the the Military Grade + Hull Reinforcement + Module Reinforcement. I don't see anything I can add other than Guardian Stuff (which I don't have the material to get) or Engineering which I have already addressed since I don't want to deliberately provoke the AI into sending engineered ships at me.
The link for the build shows me matched against a STOCK IMPERIAL CUTTER (BOND VALUE 101200) and shows Shields down in :42 and ARMOR gone in :20 while I have 22:24 before weapons drain and 11:11 shield time (for each shield cell) followed by 12:33 armor time to play Houdini with a VA escape macro written to boost me out of the fight and HIGH Wake to the NEXT SYSTEM I have in the GM or simply into SC in the system I am in.
Why do I like PROJECTILE weapons? Because with the build I have I can keep 3.5 pips to shields and 2 pips to weapons and never drain the weapons. Even 1 beam weapon of any kind drains the Weapons in :11 and only take shields down :10 faster and do less damage to Armor with that pip arrangement.
The other thing I like about MCs is they have MUCH better range.
In any case. I have to get someplace to build it and I am presently about 600LY from civilization exploring my way back in most economical so I hit the most systems to explore.

 

[Fenwe]

OK. My current combat rating is HARMLESS.
I will be playing in PRIVATE GROUP so I will not meet over-engineered human gankers.
Everything I can find about NPC's is that their AI and SHIPS and SHIP EQUIPMENT "scale" based on my combat rating and how much/what kind of ENGINEERING I have done to my ship.
SO.
With this in mind, I should never meet an NPC with anything Engineered.
Remember. I am not planning on making combat a way of life. All I need is the Combat Bonds needed to do the unlock. Based on the Inara and the Wiki, all I need are 50 FEDERAL and maybe as low as 100,000 total to do the unlock.
Ok, Going to Use the 6C Biweave even though it costs me some jump range and the added shielding is minuscule but the recharge rate of :49 VS 2:33 is a substantial improvement.
https://coriolis.io/outfit/python?code=A2pftkFfliduspf5yHyHyH27280j000103B15n2dm937---242i.Iw18RQ==.IwBj4zNNSA==.H4sIAAAAAAAAA2P8Z8/AwPCXFUj8qQcSHEc4GRj4bb79/y+2gJ+B4T/zPym4fAWQ4Ff59f+/0A5uBgaRGlEGBok7QJn//xkYAInnwT5IAAAA.MwOgrA9ADOEEzQsBUIEsC2AHApgJzQEMAbAfQGMBXAF2vwggEYBOVxVKIA==
Not sure I understand the comment that I am "not built to take much damage". I have the the Military Grade + Hull Reinforcement + Module Reinforcement. I don't see anything I can add other than Guardian Stuff (which I don't have the material to get) or Engineering which I have already addressed since I don't want to deliberately provoke the AI into sending engineered ships at me.
The link for the build shows me matched against a STOCK IMPERIAL CUTTER (BOND VALUE 101200) and shows Shields down in :42 and ARMOR gone in :20 while I have 22:24 before weapons drain and 11:11 shield time (for each shield cell) followed by 12:33 armor time to play Houdini with a VA escape macro written to boost me out of the fight and HIGH Wake to the NEXT SYSTEM I have in the GM or simply into SC in the system I am in.
Why do I like PROJECTILE weapons? Because with the build I have I can keep 3.5 pips to shields and 2 pips to weapons and never drain the weapons. Even 1 beam weapon of any kind drains the Weapons in :11 and only take shields down :10 faster and do less damage to Armor with that pip arrangement.
The other thing I like about MCs is they have MUCH better range.
In any case. I have to get someplace to build it and I am presently about 600LY from civilization exploring my way back in most economical so I hit the most systems to explore.

Boss, you aren't facing stock NPCs in any of the CZs. It's what we are trying to tell you.

 

[F4fred]

I have recently done what you are about to do. My experience of CZ’s even the low intensity ones is there is a mix of ships and particularly the spec ops ships will be engineered. If you shoot at them they will come after you. They drop chaff which will render your turrets ineffective most of the time. Your MC’s will struggle to kill them. I can‘t see what experimentals you have gone for, but you would need a mix of corrosive to weaken armour and incendiary shell to take down shields. Your plan to sail serenely through the CZ while your turrets shoot at all and sundry sounds fraught with problems, but by all means try and see how it goes and let us know how you get on. I get that you are not into combat and are just looking for the most efficient way to grind out the combat bonds, but don’t rely on getting your preferred match up of ship and always pick the low intensity zones.

 

[sinisalo]

Your plan to sail serenely through the CZ while your turrets shoot at all and sundry sounds fraught with problems

I think odds are about even that a NPC will unlock Juri before the OP with this plan and ship

 

[Fenwe]

I think odds are about even that a NPC will unlock Juri before the OP with this plan and ship

He might get lucky. you just never know.

Hopefully though he never uses that shield cell bank . The first time I used it I didn't have a heatsink launcher, my temp sky rocketed and I lost my FSD. shakes head Luckily I had rebuy, because things went down hill from there.

 

[SciTrekker]

So, NO ONE in any CZ is ever on any wanted list??

CZs are Lawless areas - even before you drop into the CZ from SC, you get a big in-your-face message that you're entering a CZ. Around CZs, even in SC, all ships will register as Lawless.