CQC CQC: Don't know how things are this imbalanced.

Here's my experience so far:

Played ED since release. Took, maybe a year away, then got into it in spurts of a few months here and there. Recently tried Arena / CQC for the first time three days ago. (Not unfamiliar with piloting sims -- been gaming since the 1980s. Played the original Elite on C64. Using a HOTAS setup, very customized. No stranger to space combat games, and I adore Elite's flight model.) So, how did CQC go?

Day 1:
Absolutely fun! I was able to dive in using the default Condor, and everything felt great. Played against people from rank 1-50. Even won 3 matches. Was going about 1:1 KDR in standard Deathmatch. (Tried to get into a Team Deathmatch, but there were none. Waited over 10 minutes at one point, then just gave up.) Came in 2nd a number of times! And that was in busy matches with 5-8 people. Felt good, especially for someone that appreciates the flying mechanics and knows how to take advantage of them.

Day 2:
Couldn't initially find any matches at all. Then, a few hours later, I started getting matches with the same few people. Let me simply say: the experience had turned 180° since the previous day. People would insta-kill out of nowhere (less than 5 full seconds time-to-kill in several cases). People could have their shields hammered by either my pulse lasers (Condor default) or burts lasers (Gu-97 default) without ever losing a ring. Nailed one dude in another Gu-97 repeatedly for a good 10-12 solid, consecutive hits. His shields' outer ring never even went into red. One player in a match of 6 people won in under 90 seconds with an 8-0 score flying either a Condor or Gu-97 -- couldn't even tell. I never actually found him and he never killed me. No one else even got an assist.

Day 3:
That's today. Logged on, found only a handful of matches, and these same few people were back. Insta-killing, no damage being taken (or it's wildly reduced), and I had a guy in an Eagle outmaneuver my Gu-97 repeatedly. He simply sat there and tracked me by just spinning in place. And I was moving tight-in on him using lateral thrusters. (I wish I had a video of that one...but I decided to start recording immediately after that happened.)

So, I fired up my recording software, and got a 23 minute vid of what was going on today. Thing is, I'm not sure it's worth sending in. Nothing that I've ever taken the time to address in the past has ever received more than a "Thank you -- we're looking into it." Then: absolutely nothing.

One of two things must be the case:

1.) We have players abusing the system like crazy.

2.) There are valid ship builds that are wildly imbalanced against new players.

If the former -- how? The population for Arena is almost non-existent from what I've seen. I'll often wait over 3 muinutes for a normal Deathmatch, and then log in with only 2 players. How can even potential cheating not be seen and dealt with? I'm tempted to say this is the case simply because of my experience on Day 1. We're talking night-and-day difference within 24 hours. I've not seen a match like I had on Day 1, nor ANY of the players I encountered then -- except for those unnamed few I see all the time. Totally curious...and totally a coincidence...absolutely...I know.

If the latter -- really??? People think it's a good idea to "challenge" new players by landing them in matches to face shields they literally cannot shoot through...ships that they literally cannot keep in their sights for more than a second at a time (because maneuverability specs make it impossible)...and facing weapons that can cut through their shields and bring their hull to zero in <5 seconds. Before they even notice the almost invisible hit indicators? Not that that matters much, because when these ships are encountered, seeing it simply means you watch it drop in under 5 seconds, and there's still nothing you can do if you're not already headed behind cover.

Is the goal to make any, potential player base feel so frustrated and trolled that they're driven off in only days?
Is it to discourage people with questionable play, followed by almost universally toxic chat? (That's the only chat I've ever seen appear in three days.)
Is this mode designed to be simply ignored and discarded?
 
Haven't ever seen any sort discrepancy in maneuverability that would approach what you describe and nothing else in your account of events really seems unusual.

Some things to keep in mind:

  • The mode is very power-up heavy and all the power up have a rather substantial impact. Damage and shield power ups can explain a lot of what you've noticed. Those that know them maps well and agressively manage power-ups have a huge edge.
  • Some of the loadout choices can have pretty profound effects and synergize well with power-ups. For example, reversed resistance shields on Condors can make them appear to take very little damage from lasers when combined with good pip use and the shield boost.
  • Weapons generally have short ranges and fall off kicks in hard near maximum range.
  • CQC doesn't appear to have any matchmaking weight other than rank and due to the small number of players typically available, especially outside of prime times, everyone available is usually lumped into the same match, meaning novices will be facing players of vastly greater experience with some regularity.

If there is anything in that video of yours that you think seems off, by all means, upload it and let us take a look.
 
The mode is very power-up heavy and all the power up have a rather substantial impact. Damage and shield power ups can explain a lot of what you've noticed. Those that know them maps well and agressively manage power-ups have a huge edge.

Shield power ups (and other power ups) are not what I'm addressing. No ship runs around for an entire match constantly powered up. If shields, they appear golden instead of blue. If weapons, it lasts for not even 30 seconds, I don't believe. If speed, same as weapons. Yet we have Gu-97's cruising around taking out completely healthy (read: just spawned in) Condors or other Gu-97s -- right from full shields / hull to zero -- in less time than I can lower their shields one ring with constant burst fire. And no, I'm not missing, they're not using chaff, or any other noobish mistake. They're just not taking damage. And they're delivering outrageous amounts. Impossible to deal with amounts.

The Eagle I'm referring to was not moving. Not lateral-thrust barrel rolling...not lateral strafing. Sitting stock still in one spot and managing to track myself (and another player he killed) without any velocity at all. Like a little spinning turret. It's not possible.


Some of the loadout choices can have pretty profound effects and synergize well with power-ups. For example, reversed resistance shields on Condors can make them appear to take very little damage from lasers when combined with good pip use and the shield boost.

That's strange, because I tried using Reverse Resistance Shields on my alternate Condor Build. I had them taken down by certain Gu-97 pilots in <5 seconds. One used heat beams, the other was using the burst lasers. Strange, as well, how when I manage to fight other pilots using similar (or exactly the same) build...their heat beams and burst lasers don't do anywhere close to the same level of damage. Only the unnamed few. Probably just coincidence. Probably all in my head. I must not be seeing the 23 minutes of video correctly.


Weapons generally have short ranges and fall off kicks in hard near maximum range.

Very odd reasoning...since when we're firing and hitting eachother, we're at exactly the same range, often using exactly the same weapons (burst lasers / pulse lasers), but my shields drop in <5 seconds, and their shields don't lose a whole ring. If I'm also using Reverse Resistance Shielding...what other modification do they have on their ship that grants them such amazing defenses. Reading over all of the equipment descriptions...I can't figure that one out. If we're using the same weapons...what other modifiactions make them cause such outrageous levels of damage against inherently the same craft. It's a mind-bender.


CQC doesn't appear to have any matchmaking weight other than rank and due to the small number of players typically available, especially outside of prime times, everyone available is usually lumped into the same match, meaning novices will be facing players of vastly greater experience with some regularity.

This, I understood before ever jumping in. And, frankly, I'm fine with that, as long as players have the ability to fight effectively at any level with default gear. I can accept a match in which going toe-to-toe with a higher-rank / superior gear opponent might give them an edge. I can deal with what I was seeing on Day 1, when I might hammer a level 50 player from behind, cut through their shields, then not be able to quite tank enough damage when they turned around on me, and I managed get them down to 30% hull before they got me. Fair enough -- if only I had done [insert tactic; try again].

What I cannot accept is if higher-ranked players are actually being handed gear this utterly impossible to deal with. When a tiny Gu-97 can goe toe-to-toe with two other fighters and an eagle simultaneously, and manage to defeat all three in under 20 seconds. Not that they were maneuvering like a pro. They were just rolling around and tanking it.

What's that? Gameplay balance? Effective, skill based MP design?

No. That's either cheating, or gross imbalance. It's no mystery to me why hardly anyone plays this. Very sad. It's a lot of fun when it's working in such a way that everyone has a fair chance to play. The way it's been working over the last two days, I'm not going to spawn and die to the same 2-3 people 8 times in a row because firing back does nothing and maneuvering is just wasting time before you're insta-killed a few seconds later, anyway.


And, like I said. I've wasted enough time trying to highlight these issues when and where they appear. I'll go back to Solo and Private Servers. (At least the Massacre Missions are in better shape, based on the last few times I tried it. Managed to kill 7 pirates today to complete a contract. It only took 45 minutes of sitting around the nav point and aimlessly flying about the system...but they all spawned!)
 
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I saw OP in action the other day, him and his mates gave me some unprovoked verbal abuse in local chat just after one game only to make me stay longer. The insults were going on and on for many many matches.

OP's flying skills are terrible despite how he claims he can go toe-to-toe with anyone.
  • Poor maneuverability skills
  • Poor pips management
  • Poor range control (he shoots even when out of range)
  • Poor FA off
  • Inefficient PU use
  • Poor use of the environment
  • Big mouth - calling way more experienced pilots cheaters just after a few CQC matches - OP is like rank 15, which basically means ZERO experience.

Him and his mates were saying they were going to report me to FDevs for cheating blah blah blah
Please post videos and show us all.
 
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No ship runs around for an entire match constantly powered up.

Once someone has learned the maps, it's not unusual for them to have one or more power-ups active at any given moment, throughout the majority of a match.

Probably just coincidence. Probably all in my head. I must not be seeing the 23 minutes of video correctly.

You should show us this video.

What I cannot accept is if higher-ranked players are actually being handed gear this utterly impossible to deal with.

They aren't.

I'll go back to Solo and Private Servers.

Do you have any significant PvP experience in the main game?

Going from main-game PvP, let alone PvE, combat to CQC against some of the most experienced CQC players in the game is certain to be jarring; there is definitely a learning curve and a fair bit of depth that may not be immediately apparent but presuming cheats when you don't have the experience to even assess what is happening is pretty presumptuous.

Here is a 70 minute video of me mostly getting my butt kicked by Musketeer and Body Bag about six months ago:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai40IYUecG0


I don't play CQC very often and every time I do I have to relearn all the power up locations and refresh my memory of what the differences are between CQC and the main game. I tend to mop the floor with true novices, but still get schooled by the prestige players. However, I can still tell they aren't doing the impossible and, after some acclimation, I can even put up a pretty good fight. Segments like what happens around 14:30-15:20 proves they are neither invincible nor playing by a different set of rules.
 
I saw OP in action the other day, him and his mates gave me some unprovoked verbal abuse in local chat just after one game only to make me stay longer. The insults were going on and on for many many matches.

OP's flying skills are terrible despite how he claims he can go toe-to-toe with anyone.
  • Poor maneuverability skills
  • Poor pips management
  • Poor range control (he shoots even when out of range)
  • Poor FA off
  • Inefficient PU use
  • Poor use of the environment
  • Big mouth - calling way more experienced pilots cheaters just after a few CQC matches - OP is like rank 15, which basically means ZERO experience.

Him and his mates were saying they were going to report me to FDevs for cheating blah blah blah
Please post videos and show us all.
I was wondering if OP got musketeered and just wanted to post it's normal getting blown up by you.
But hey, you did it yourself (y)
 
I saw OP in action the other day

Thanks for validating my thoughts on this. I left it alone because it sounded like it was on PC and I'm not fully versed in the likelihood of things there... but it did sound like a newer player who had simply met some skilled CQC pilots who were flying with guns blazing.

In all the years I've played (xbox), I've seen only 1 guy who came into CQC and was really amazing/challenging. And a very few who were somewhat practiced enough as pilots to show skill in close quarters.

I actually ran into a crew of Hand pilots a week ago or so...and we did some Flag matches. I got the sense that fighting thargoids was actually pretty good flight practice for skills that translate well into CQC. They did really well, and it was pretty much day one for them in CQC.

And back when I started, I can remember Egon finishing a deathmatch in under 45 seconds once... all the stars had lined up...
 
Cheat accusations don't come only from noobs...
Some high ranked CQC players don't like me very much (one squadron in particular) that I know for the fact they have been reporting me to FDevs on regular basis.. That's how low you can go lol.. Look at messages of this fella for example (one guy in his squadron told me he's been reporting me every day haha). I think that guy left his squadron recently, but still..

I removed player names as per Forum rules..

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In that last picture I lost my patience with that imbecile, normally I don't bother to talk to people.
I just kill them in the arena.

This also shows it was better not to have a chat in CQC Deathmatch.
 
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If weapons, it lasts for not even 30 seconds, I don't believe.
Weapons last for 45 seconds. Powerups also regenerate every 45 seconds, so someone who wants to and isn't forcefully stopped from doing so can have permanent Weapons (or double damage). In a match where everyone's top level they will be forcefully stopped, or just focused on when everyone else sees them pick up the weapons, so it's not as unbalanced.

Something else that's not been mentioned yet: the System pips curve in CQC is the old-style exponential one, not the current main-game linear one. So if you don't have four pips to systems, your shields are paper. (Also, the distributor on the CQC ships is weak, so if you do have four pips in systems, you'll have no power left for boosting and shooting. Constantly shuffling them is necessary)

Combine the two, add on the Eagle being just quite a bit bigger and tougher and better armed than a light fighter (which is compensated for by it being a slow and relatively easy target), and you could easily have your own ship destroyed before you've taken a ring off the opposition.

When I have my HOTAS strapped to my desk, I can barely reach my keyboard...keeps my fingers from hurling rash replies!
I use the keyboard to fly, so typing would just leave me a sitting duck for several seconds. (Maybe that's the problem for some pilots, too busy typing to evade?)

I really need to get back into CQC...
 

Deleted member 192138

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From Musketeers screenshots, "you are using an aimbot" dude realises how big the gimbal is on "fixed" weapons in CQC right? The entire game mode is aimbot.
 
Something else that's not been mentioned yet: the System pips curve in CQC is the old-style exponential one, not the current main-game linear one.

This I did not know.

Also, the distributor on the CQC ships is weak, so if you do have four pips in systems, you'll have no power left for boosting and shooting

Unless you like rapid cannon.

From Musketeers screenshots, "you are using an aimbot" dude realises how big the gimbal is on "fixed" weapons in CQC right? The entire game mode is aimbot.

I was giving that individual the benefit of the doubt and assumed he was atleast refering to periods where manual aim would have been necessary...chaff and silent running/stealth, for example.
 
The guy in the screenshot flies Eagle.. he thinks he is invisible when using heatsinks... Eagle is a big target hard to miss even when tracking is not working due to low temp.
 
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