General / Off-Topic The safest place

[Han_Zen]

I also think that Africa and the favelas of Brazil will confirm this fact.

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Many of these places may get of relatively lightly. Median age is low and those in risk groups are sadly often dead already.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Many of these places may get of relatively lightly. Median age is low and those in risk groups are sadly often dead already.

It's also true.

However, this virus holds surprises.

It seems to resist warming temperatures and also attacks young people and people under 50.

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[Han_Zen]

It's also true.

However, this virus holds surprises.

It seems to resist warming temperatures and also attacks young people and people under 50.

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It does attack everyone, but statistically it's the old and/or ill that die. I places where healthcare is practically non existent and antibiotics are not available, they may not even notice a few extra pneumonia deaths. The sad truth is that many people live with this risk level, every day of their life.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Indeed, Sweden and UK are the definitive proof that the herd immunity approach wasn't such a good idea.

But we know only one wil be hauled over the coals for it in the echo court-chamber of social justice.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

At the age of 55, the British Prime Minister did not hesitate at the beginning of March, when the pandemic was already raging, to taunt the virus by claiming to continue to "shake hands with everyone, even the sick".
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...and we know what you'd be saying if the virus was only as bad as his advisors were saying at the time and he'd bunkered down.

 

[Ian Skippy]

...and we know what you'd be saying if the virus was only as bad as his advisors were saying at the time and he'd bunkered down.

Exactly. Beyond this crisis I wouldn't call myself a particular fan of Boris Johnson, but it is too easy to put all the blame on him. He did listen to expert input (although, in hindsight, maybe the wrong experts) and he did change his mind when confronted with new predictions and information. He then instituted measures that go against his central ideology of 'no big government, no taking away individual freedom'.

Could they reasonably have been expected to act sooner? Maybe, yes. Was it a trivially easy decision that anyone else would have easily done perfectly? No. Should all decision making be analyzed after the crisis is over so we can improve our readiness for the next virus? Absolutely. Is it okay to point & laugh at a man in critical care? Not so much...

 

[Han_Zen]

The situation in Sweden starts to turn. The only European country to still enact few measures now sees it's per capita death toll rise to almost all its Nordic neighbours combined. With Stockholm hospitals starting to get in trouble.

Sweden prepares for possible tighter coronavirus measures as deaths rise

Country has taken soft approach and its death rate is higher than its Nordic neighbours’

www.theguardian.com

Sweden had a plan to focus their protection their risk groups. The idea wasn't bad, but it failed. Particularly in Stockholm. Lots of elders got infected.
While nasty compared to other Nordic countries, it's not that bad there. They may still improve. They are after all the Germans of Scandinavia, when it comes to order and disiplin.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Turns out partisan propaganda might potentially have some legal drawbacks when it gets people killed. Oops. Prepare for years of finger-pointing and blame-shifting between corps and governments.

Fox News Is Preparing to Be Sued Over Coronavirus Misinformation

Polls show that Trish Regan, Sean Hannity, and others successfully bamboozled viewers about coronavirus. Now, Fox is reportedly lawyering up for a potential legal backlash.

www.vanityfair.com

 

[askavir]

Turns out partisan propaganda might potentially have some legal drawbacks when it gets people killed. Oops. Prepare for years of finger-pointing and blame-shifting between corps and governments.

Fox News Is Preparing to Be Sued Over Coronavirus Misinformation

Polls show that Trish Regan, Sean Hannity, and others successfully bamboozled viewers about coronavirus. Now, Fox is reportedly lawyering up for a potential legal backlash.

www.vanityfair.com

I'll shed no tear for Fox News... Since their campaign to smear a child (the maga hat kid) over something he didn't even do, just to push their relentless anti-trump agenda, they can crash and burn for all I care. They ended up convicted in court and having to pay a huge compensation to the maga hat kid.

Regardless of anyone's political inclinations and sympathies toward specific leaders of countries, what Fox did was completely despicable, and they represent everything that's wrong with too much of today's "press". Partisan progaganda, unconfirmed or manufactured "facts", all kinds of opinion manipulation attempts, take your pick... Ends do not justify means.

edit: turns out I mistaken Fox for CNN, my mistake, sorry.

 

[jasonbarron]

I'll shed no tear for Fox News... Since their campaign to smear a child (the maga hat kid) over something he didn't even do, just to push their relentless anti-trump agenda, they can crash and burn for all I care. They ended up convicted in court and having to pay a huge compensation to the maga hat kid.

Regardless of anyone's political inclinations and sympathies toward specific leaders of countries, what Fox did was completely despicable, and they represent everything that's wrong with too much of today's "press". Partisan progaganda, unconfirmed or manufactured "facts", all kinds of opinion manipulation attempts, take your pick... Ends do not justify means.

Fox was the only major news outlet that defended the Covington kids. It was CNN and the Washington Post that led the charge to burn them at the stake.

 

[askavir]

Fox was the only major news outlet that defended the Covington kids. It was CNN and the Washington Post that led the charge to burn them at the stake.

You're right, I mistaken Fox for CNN. Didn't knew about Washington Post though, it's even worse than I thought. Edited my original post.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I'll shed no tear for Fox News... Since their campaign to smear a child (the maga hat kid) over something he didn't even do, just to push their relentless anti-trump agenda, they can crash and burn for all I care. They ended up convicted in court and having to pay a huge compensation to the maga hat kid.

Regardless of anyone's political inclinations and sympathies toward specific leaders of countries, what Fox did was completely despicable, and they represent everything that's wrong with too much of today's "press". Partisan progaganda, unconfirmed or manufactured "facts", all kinds of opinion manipulation attempts, take your pick... Ends do not justify means.

edit: turns out I mistaken Fox for CNN, my mistake, sorry.

FOX was seeded following watergate as a pro-GOP outlet, with earlier plans existing before Watergate happened. The MAGA-kid incident was from the other side of the bizarre US media spectrum.

In 1970, political consultant Roger Ailes and other Nixon aides came up with a plan to create a new TV network that would circumvent existing media and provide "pro-administration" coverage to millions. "People are lazy," the aides explained in a memo. "With television you just sit — watch — listen. The thinking is done for you." Nixon embraced the idea, saying he and his supporters needed "our own news" from a network that would lead "a brutal, vicious attack on the opposition." Alas, his fantasy network did not come into being at that time, and the 37th president was soon engulfed in the Watergate scandal. At first, Republicans dismissed the scandal as a Washington Post "witch hunt." But then the White House tapes proved beyond doubt that Nixon had used the levers of government to pursue vendettas against his opponents and cover up his extensive skulduggery. Disgusted GOP leaders, including Sen. Howard Baker of the Senate Watergate committee, chose principles over party. Nixon was forced to resign.

Ultimately Fox News was launched by Ailes, funded by Murdoch, in the 90s. And it is doing its job admirably well. It is completely unlike anything that exist in other western countries.You cannot look at US media from a normal perspective, really. Over here, what Fox did in this crisis would be universally loathed regardless of political affiliation. In the US it is party affiliation above literally all else.

 

[jasonbarron]

You're right, I mistaken Fox for CNN. Didn't knew about Washington Post though, it's even worse than I thought. Edited my original post.

Aside from fox and various conservative radio shows such as hannity, Limbaugh, Shapiro etc, the rest of the media and the entire liberal left of the country embarked on what can only be described as a witch hunt. If it weren't for the voices of conservatism those boys would have been annihilated

As far as fox misleading the country, that's a giant load of baloney. There's no doubt going to be wrongful death lawsuits flying every which way, but I don't see anything sticking to them.

 

[Ian Skippy]

As far as fox misleading the country, that's a giant load of baloney.

The problem with saying this on TV is that it is recorded. Each can make up their own mind, but they clearly kept denying the seriousness of the virus, calling it a hoax, a democrat attack on trump and so on. Pretending that never happened is some 'We've always been at war with Eastasia' level revisionism.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA

And a fun contrast of how FOX treated COVID19 vs the 'Ebola crisis' during Obama that killed two people.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmW_H4U-MI


Anyway, everyone can make up their own mind based on the above; they are easily verifiable facts and what people do with that is up to them. Convincing individuals of this or that isn't that important to me.

 

[jasonbarron]

I'm not even going to waste my time with a bunch of curated soundbites by a media outlet that essentially functions as a propaganda wing for the CCP. I get enough of their treasonous filth just reading their individual stories. There is an all out war to remove Trump from office. It's been going on for over 3+ years and the pandemic is the last best chance of getting it done, or at least ruining re-election chances. Yes, absolutely the press and the liberal left is taking a certain amount of truth concerning the virus (it exists and yes, catching it can be detrimental to your health) and whipping it into a frenzy that I think could only be accurately be described as a "hoax." They rub their hands together with unholy glee at every legitimately tragic story that they can twist and distort and feed back to people who don't know any better or are simply gullible. There is no doubt in anyone's mind about that that didn't enter this narrative without already deciding how they would play every soundbite, every story in advance. Trump (and Fox News) just said the perfectly obvious: the liberal left and the media will weaponize this in every way possible, but never said the virus itself wasn't real.

A couple thoughts on that when it comes to the blame game, since that's all this is: if the CCP had been truthful ("sorry guys, but it looks like we're forecasting a minimum of 40k deaths in Wuhan alone, might want to buckle up") we might have had a better reaction. Maybe if all the other media outlets in America hadn't been breathlessly covering their front pages (to the exclusion of everything else going on in the country and the rest of the world) with the ridiculous impeachment sham all the way into late January I'd somehow buy the "let's single Fox out for not being accurate, or paying attention to the real story" angle. I could go on for pages, but I don't have time as work looms. The bottom line is that some people are going to believe as you do, because they instinctively recognize this is their only chance and they're going to milk it for everything it's worth. Personally, I try to listen to my better angels in the whole global pandemic discussion, but lord knows it's getting harder and harder.

 

[jasonbarron]

It does attack everyone, but statistically it's the old and/or ill that die. I places where healthcare is practically non existent and antibiotics are not available, they may not even notice a few extra pneumonia deaths. The sad truth is that many people live with this risk level, every day of their life.

There was a story yesterday, don't have time to look for it now, where the CDC is encouraging doctors in America to use their best judgment as to cause of death in absence of a proper test (or bother wasting resources), and if it has any relationship with pneumonia to chalk it up as covid. What this means, as I vulgarly forecast about two weeks ago, is that anything that doesn't involve blunt force trauma to the head is going to get added to the data list as Covid 19. Non vulgar definition: expect the accepted national and state by state influenza death rates to drop off into all time lows.

 

[Ian Skippy]

There was a story yesterday, don't have time to look for it now, where the CDC is encouraging doctors in America to use their best judgment as to cause of death in absence of a proper test (or bother wasting resources), and if it has any relationship with pneumonia to chalk it up as covid. What this means, as I vulgarly forecast about two weeks ago, is that anything that doesn't involve blunt force trauma to the head is going to get added to the data list as Covid 19. Non vulgar definition: expect the accepted national and state by state influenza death rates to drop off into all time lows.

CDC guidelines are publicly available and can be read here:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

 

[jasonbarron]

CDC guidelines are publicly available and can be read here:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

It was a Wapo story ironically enough. I'll see if I can find that a bit later. Doesn't really matter though, because anyone willing to do a bit of homework will see for themselves that the normally accepted mortality rates are hardly budging, not only in America in general but in New York as well. Like all the best lies there is an element of truth, but that element of truth is being spun up big time.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

You're right, I mistaken Fox for CNN. Didn't knew about Washington Post though, it's even worse than I thought. Edited my original post.

I tend to read an article from both sides of any discussion if a pure analytical view isn't available to try to get a handle on a situation, because of the politicising of every news story possible, but I will say the NY Times is one of the worst.

I can't find the article (because pay-wall), but to paraphrase a piece they ran early last the 'intellectual' regions of NY and cities were adhering to proper social distancing/not travelling far, but those silly hillbillies down in Alabama/the rust belt were still DRIVING distances in excess of 10 miles (It obviously conveniently ignored the fact in places like that, that could be the distance you need to go to get groceries).

If they can get a chance to stick the knife into the 'dumb' working class that voted in Trump, they'll jump at it. Not the way you should be comporting yourself in a time like this in my mind.

 

[Northpin]

this is getting serious again. some jokes are in-line

* So people keep asking me if #Covid19 is really that serious! I have been thinking. Strip clubs and churches are both closed. When heaven and hell agree on the same thing it is probably pretty serious.

* IMAGINE getting rid of COVID-19 Then BOOM!! China releases- COVID-19 S PLUS

* There's a gap in your CV, what did you do in 2020? I was washing my hands.