USA? I doubt it's peaked there, you have 5 states with 0 restrictions and it's only just entered those regions. Not mention restrictions are already being lifted....
General / Off-Topic The safest place
- Thread starter Robin of Spiritwood
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I won't post a direct link due to potentially containing material that some may find unacceptable.
But for anyone interested in reading the best written article of the decade.
Read Victor Davis Hanson's "The scab & the wound beneath"
It is posted on https://newcriterion.com/
I hope some of you at least, read it in it's entirety.
But for anyone interested in reading the best written article of the decade.
Read Victor Davis Hanson's "The scab & the wound beneath"
It is posted on https://newcriterion.com/
I hope some of you at least, read it in it's entirety.
edit: oh well 
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On the other hand, we don't have any proof that patients don't get immune. The 200 Korean "strange" cases turned out to be a false alarm, or at least the number was withdrawn due to uncertainties.A reminder from the WHO to not make any premature assumptions about immunity...
I managed to get through the whole article and while some bias was expected, the degree of factual error and number of shaky assumptions caught me off guard.
As a history buff, I was vaguely familiar with Victor Davis Hanson and almost bought his book on the Peloponnesian War, but this article has convinced me to do otherwise. If the author's unabashed defense of the indefensible and overt apologism is anything to go by, his account of history may well be too colored to be useful.
The article already feels outdated and the only relevant bit of wisdom I can extract from it are about the risks of being an optimist and low margin for error when dealing with pandemics. The rest is either so obvious as to be self-evident, or so completely unfounded as to be dismissed out of hand.
Ultimately, my response to the author would have to be something along the lines of:
It's one of those evidence of absence things.
Assuming lasting acquired immunity without proof is far more dangerous than assuming those who have had it may still be able to acquire it again.
That is true.
However, alone in the forest with the blue sky and the sun is the summit of the social distancing (for those who can).
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There are still people in Yemen ?
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If he is dead, his sister is expected to take the power.
She has the reputation of being sometimes more bloodthirsty than him.
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I agree, and everything before the word but, yet again, it does seem from the roughly 3 million reported cases we have, that if immunity is not a given, that is only the case for a very small percentage. How long the immunity will last on the other hand is pretty much "huh?".
The Autoimmunity Problem.
Imagine a criminal with your face. The photo goes out to the police. What happens when they see you while on the lookout for him? Oh, I'm not the guy, Yeah buddy, sure, tell it to the judge.
There are a number of illnesses that get started by infection with some agent or the other, but end up damaging something remote. Classic examples are heart valve damage from rheumatic fever, secondary to a strep throat. Strep also can cause kidney damage via an immune mechanism.
Rheumatoid arthritis is now thought to be caused by urinary tract infection with Proteus mirabilis, normally found in the gut. Women get cross contamination much easier, get more bladder infections, and wind up with 3 to 5 times more RA.
In every case, it's mistaken identity. Immune system screwups.
Viral S protein is antigenic, causing antibodies to form that bind to it. But it also binds to 2 receptors we know of, chiefly the ACE2 one.
Let's represent the ACE2 receptor with an M. Normally it locks onto a substrate, v, that fits in the middle of the M. .
The S protein also fits into it in the middle like a V. It resembles the substrate. That's how the Virus gains entry, because like Vlad Dracula, it can't come in unless some fool invites it.
Our antibodies might lock up multiple S proteins at once, and look like a W, that can hold a couple V's each. A cop with 2 arms.
What would those antibodies do to the substrate?
Once a person has the circulating antibodies, there is a pretty fair chance that they will disrupt the normal communication we have with our ACE2 receptors.
What is that going to do to us long term? I don't know, Rut Row, Shaggy?
Moreover as long as we are making that normal substrate v, our immune system is going to assume that our infection is STILL running, because it cannot tell the difference between V and v, and pump out more and more W till all our good normal v is locked up tight.
Our bloodstream is going to become a v-W traffic jam. Imagine Volkswagons from here to Timbucktu. The kidneys are going to have to filter all that crap.
Imagine a criminal with your face. The photo goes out to the police. What happens when they see you while on the lookout for him? Oh, I'm not the guy, Yeah buddy, sure, tell it to the judge.
There are a number of illnesses that get started by infection with some agent or the other, but end up damaging something remote. Classic examples are heart valve damage from rheumatic fever, secondary to a strep throat. Strep also can cause kidney damage via an immune mechanism.
Rheumatoid arthritis is now thought to be caused by urinary tract infection with Proteus mirabilis, normally found in the gut. Women get cross contamination much easier, get more bladder infections, and wind up with 3 to 5 times more RA.
In every case, it's mistaken identity. Immune system screwups.
Viral S protein is antigenic, causing antibodies to form that bind to it. But it also binds to 2 receptors we know of, chiefly the ACE2 one.
Let's represent the ACE2 receptor with an M. Normally it locks onto a substrate, v, that fits in the middle of the M. .
The S protein also fits into it in the middle like a V. It resembles the substrate. That's how the Virus gains entry, because like Vlad Dracula, it can't come in unless some fool invites it.
Our antibodies might lock up multiple S proteins at once, and look like a W, that can hold a couple V's each. A cop with 2 arms.
What would those antibodies do to the substrate?
Once a person has the circulating antibodies, there is a pretty fair chance that they will disrupt the normal communication we have with our ACE2 receptors.
What is that going to do to us long term? I don't know, Rut Row, Shaggy?
Moreover as long as we are making that normal substrate v, our immune system is going to assume that our infection is STILL running, because it cannot tell the difference between V and v, and pump out more and more W till all our good normal v is locked up tight.
Our bloodstream is going to become a v-W traffic jam. Imagine Volkswagons from here to Timbucktu. The kidneys are going to have to filter all that crap.
The tolerance for factual errors is what is surprising to me. As I said earlier, my group of Dutch friends is quite diverse; both in background and political orientation. But all of us adhere to the basic principle that facts trump beliefs, and if facts counter our opinion we should adjust our opinions. All of us our wrong at some point, and all of us acknowledge that with basic grace.
I have traveled extensively, and met many different people from dozens of countries. The mindset of GJ51 and his 'allies' in this topic seem to be uniquely ubiquitous in the US: it quite literally doesn't matter if their sources are factually demonstrated to be wrong over and over, it has zero impact on their stance. Transparant pandering over truth and honesty. Baffling. It's a cultural attitude I'll never understand, but it's a testament to the width of human cultural diversity.
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Restrictions have also greatly decreased Flu deaths (Surprise! it's also a virus), road accidents, workplace accidents and many deaths in many other areas. So it's turns and roundabouts. However, people should be seeking medical attention if they need it, no one has said they shouldn't, they should however take precautions and probably call ahead of time.
Covid deaths just surpassed the flu in the US btw, and no, I don't think you're anywhere near peak in the US. Also, covid deaths have surpassed the flu with lockdown, imagine if people had just ignored it.
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Here is a list of DIY masks, rated and with further links to how-to's. Quite an inventive list, worth watching just to see what people can come up with.
The best ones are surprisingly simple:
Tested our locally made items today, doing a surgical repair on a machete chop victim. Surgery was basic, lasted just about half an hour. The blade was blunt, and bounced off the bone below, so not that bad.
They work OK, but the materials are uncomfortable and the stapling needs to get covered better. Called it in, and talked to the lady who put it together. She was very nice.
The best ones are surprisingly simple:
- 3 rubberbands plus a standard surgical mask makes a decent showing,
- and an uncomplicated mask made of autoclave paper wins.
Tested our locally made items today, doing a surgical repair on a machete chop victim. Surgery was basic, lasted just about half an hour. The blade was blunt, and bounced off the bone below, so not that bad.
They work OK, but the materials are uncomfortable and the stapling needs to get covered better. Called it in, and talked to the lady who put it together. She was very nice.
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Norway had zero corona deaths yesterday. First time since 22. of March.
Total mortality is a bit lower than normal. Even the institutions for elderly in Oslo, have not had any excess mortality. These have taken a large portion of the Corona deaths, over the last six weeks.
All in all the restrictions have been more efficient than the virus.
Trinidad and Tobago COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
Trinidad and Tobago Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
www.worldometers.info
Jamaica is a comparable island, started getting cases at mid March too. But they have not done well.https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/jamaica/
Looks like their active cases have turned the Exponential Corner, and I fear for the folks there.
Virus continuing to march into first world nations with 5G towers. /s
Norway had zero corona deaths yesterday. First time since 22. of March.
Total mortality is a bit lower than normal. Even the institutions for elderly in Oslo, have not had any excess mortality. These have taken a large portion of the Corona deaths, over the last six weeks.
All in all the restrictions have been more efficient than the virus.
Yes congrats to both of you. In my country we're in a similar situation. I hate to spoil the party, but what will happen when you open the lockdowns? Remember that one single case running around is enough to start the infection spreading again. Also this is a pandemic, and it was spread because people traveled. Right now the borders are closed, but that won't last.
Check that sweet flatline log curve!Trinidad and Tobago COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
Trinidad and Tobago Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/jamaica/
Looks like their active cases have turned the Exponential Corner, and I fear for the folks there.
Or maybe it will. Honestly, one of the only things that have surprised me since I started looking at this back in January, is that the governments have acted a lot more altruistic than I thought they would have. Might be because many politicians are old enough to be at high risk, but it could also be that humans have evolved into a more social species than we normally think.
People need to get their heads out of the lower part of their backs. 5G is NOT the cause of anything else than more cats on FB. A virus is one of those things Mother Nature throws in our face from time to time. It's nature. Not a Chinese killer virus, not a secret research project sponsored by Fauci and not the Martians (we didn't do it, and you can't prove we did).Virus continuing to march into first world nations with 5G towers. /s
Norway hasn't really been in full lock down. Most people have been working, with home office for those that can. Schools and kinder gardens have been closed, but are gradually being opened. All sports, concerts, festivals and public gathering of more than five people are and will stay closed. Boarders are also closed.
An increase in cases is expected, when more is opened. The plan is to control it with testing and tracing. We are currently under voluntary surveillance via a tracker app, that uses GPS and Bluetooth to log contacts.
The goal is to find a balance between infection rate and a functioning society, that can continue for at least a year.
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