Tired of the Open vs. Private Debacle

[House0fDerp]

No. Its stupid to complain about being apart from everyone, if "apartheid" is your choice.
Silly argument.
Open does not take any care about it or afterthought. Your there, everyone beside.

Regards

Open doesn't have a choice about regard. You cannot chose to play and instance with everyone by virtue of other modes existing and people choosing to use them. Infact, most of the gnashing of teeth starts specifically because people in open keep giving regard towards people in other modes. What systems they should or shouldn't affect and perceptions about relative safety are pretty much the foundations of this argument.

You don't determine what's reasonable friendo.

No one here does in an absolute sense. We just get to put our personal opinion on the matter out there.

If you want to play solo the game should provide means to do so...

It already does.

" rather than leverage modes or bad mechanics like flags it should leverage its main feature. The vastness of space, volume of star systems with various states, alignments, security levels, blah blah blah. All modes and flags do is fill the gap that these things should be filling, and the game would be better if they did."

That works if that space actually uniform in what it offers. But there's only one of any engineer base or Jameson Memorial. The choice not to engage by virtue of the vastness of space alone is imperfect in both terms of effectiveness and and choice of what/how to play.

 

[Rat Catcher]

If you do not play with others Robert don't.
The artificial mix forced on everyone is cause of all the hassle

The 'artificial mix' could be replaced with Open & Open PvE (just one open - except that the PvE flag prevents player damage, wouldn't that be exciting! ) and we'd be rid of such a mix, and folks could still go on doing the same stuff they do now - what a Nirvana that might be - surely such a scenario would have you jumping up and down with excitement and anticipation?

 

[C. FLOSS]

Hello CMDRs! What is the problem here? Why is everybody so upset? There's no need! Let me explain why's that so.

A week ago there wasn't much to do. I went to look at some tourist beacons to learn galactic history. Although these beacons were in popular systems, no CMDR interdicted me as I scanned the beacons. I soon fell asleep as the history lessons were so enlightening. While I was drifting between dream and wakefulness I felt that the CMDRs that hadn't tried to interdict me had rather seemed to scutter away as quickly as possible. That felt somehow pleasant.

Then the other day I went to see Borann that everybody is so excited about. It was filled with sweaty miners. They were coarse and sexist. What else can you expect from miners? They mostly consort with asteroids and compare the sizes of their mining lasers with each other. Diamond by diamond they sink deeper into space madness, perhaps believing a fleet carrier will finally make each of them a somebody. Again, nobody interdicted me, but rather they seemed to scutter away while I tried to scan their ships in case they were ruffians. Could it be that the miners are afraid of Creme Caramel?

I plotted a route to Shinrarta. It was more civilized there, as some nobleman of the Empire was challenging the ruffians there and showing them imperial eloquence. I scanned the other ships to see if they were wanted, and the CMDRs scuttered this way and that. That brought a tingly sensation, like a lovely head massage with a spindly gadget.

I began to realize that it was actually pleasant how the other CMDRs tried to hide and scutter. And why not let them? Let the common people scutter into dark corners if they are fearful of the light. If they scutter all the way to their private boltholes or behind the Pilots Federation restriction orders, why is that a problem? Won't the galaxy be even more elegant, even more beautiful after? More clean, more competent?

So lets not be upset. Lets be happy! There is place for everybody in the galaxy. Skilled and powerful have their place, and so do the weak and the incompetent. Each of them choosing their own place, each according to their ability or disability.

That is fine. You know who you are. You know where you are able to make a stand.

Its the best of the possible worlds.


Bests,
CMDR C. FLOSS
Imperial Princess

 

[Robert Maynard]

You don't determine what's reasonable friendo. If you want to play solo the game should provide means to do so. Or if you want to see people but with minimal risk of being ganked there should game mechanics like high sec, that provide that service. But I'm just gonna copy paste what i said already since you wanna go in circles.

No one here determines what is reasonable.

The game already offers a means to play solo - it's called Solo.

" rather than leverage modes or bad mechanics like flags it should leverage its main feature. The vastness of space, volume of star systems with various states, alignments, security levels, blah blah blah. All modes and flags do is fill the gap that these things should be filling, and the game would be better if they did."

Whether modes and flags are, or are not, bad mechanics remains a matter of opinion. They don't cater to the player who wants to interact with everyone - and weren't designed to - as the choice of each player as to who not to play with may over-ride the choice of players who may want to play to play with them.

The game, changed in the ways suggested, may be better for some players - but not all.

 

[Dietger]

Open is sufficient in it self. Needs no hand holding beside comemns

The suggestion is that an Open only version of the game would be "enough" - that contention lacks clarity on solutions. And playing without others in the only game mode that would be available in a hypothetical Open only version of the game is unlikely.

LOL
Thats the entire point!

"that contention lacks clarity on solutions" is the entire point of the mode!!!
Maybe your missing out, right, and we never meet! But others do Robert, meet each others inside an OPEN game ELITE

 

[House0fDerp]

Open is sufficient in it self. Needs no hand holding beside comemns

LOL
Thats the entire point!

"that contention lacks clarity on solutions" is the entire point of the mode!!!
Maybe your missing out, right, and we never meet! But others do Robert, meet each others inside an OPEN game ELITE

Yes, this is why open exists, for others to choose to do that. Not to force others to engage in that possibility.

 

[Robert Maynard]

LOL
Thats the entire point!

"that contention lacks clarity on solutions" is the entire point of the mode!!!
Maybe your missing out, right, and we never meet! But others do Robert, meet each others inside an OPEN game ELITE

Then it sounds like the point is to attempt to force players who don't enjoy playing among other players to do so.

Indeed others meet - I've met players in this game - it's a not totally uncommon occurrence in Open. That's one of the things that Open is for. By choice though - not forced.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

No one here determines what is reasonable.

The game already offers a means to play solo - it's called Solo.

Whether modes and flags are, or are not, bad mechanics remains a matter of opinion. They don't cater to the player who wants to interact with everyone - and weren't designed to - as the choice of each player as to who not to play with may over-ride the choice of players who may want to play to play with them.

The game, changed in the ways suggested, may be better for some players - but not all.

If the game spaces functions as they are labeled it would absolutely be better for everyone. And that's bold of you to state no one determines what's reasonable after telling me something isn't reasonable.

Make the systems function as they are labeled and in accordance with their labels. Especially since the labels are partially supposed to address the issue the flags and solo do. Fixing a problem within the context and design of the game itself is objectively smarter and better game design than tacking on hamfisted things like solo or a flag that makes bullets magic.

I agree that if you don't want to pvp you shouldn't have to. The game should provide that ability within the context of the in game Galaxy using actual game play mehanics, and loops. Not "haha mode make ships go bye bye"

 

[Dietger]

Yes, this is why open exists, for others to choose to do that. Not to force others to engage in that possibility.

Right!
The "flaw" if you might want to take it this way, isn't Open at all since it is and remains utterly peaceful at large, its the missing link between modes.
Where Open is freedom and remains peaceful at it it lags the exclusiveness of any other mode

 

[Dietger]

Then it sounds like the point is to attempt to force players who don't enjoy playing among other players to do so.

Indeed others meet - I've met players in this game - it's a not totally uncommon occurrence in Open. That's one of the things that Open is for. By choice though - not forced.

Thats how its been Robert. Open never was anything else. You may - and we all have been killed by others - loose your ship. You may get cornered or bullied. You may.
But most off the time your social getting a o7

 

[Rat Catcher]

If the game spaces functions as they are labeled it would absolutely be better for everyone. And that's bold of you to state no one determines what's reasonable after telling me something isn't reasonable.

Make the systems function as they are labeled and in accordance with their labels. Especially since the labels are partially supposed to address the issue the flags and solo do. Fixing a problem within the context and design of the game itself is objectively smarter and better game design than tacking on hamfisted things like solo or a flag that makes bullets magic.

I agree that if you don't want to pvp you shouldn't have to. The game should provide that ability within the context of the in game Galaxy using actual game play mehanics, and loops. Not "haha mode make ships go bye bye"

Wouldn't the game be so much better if only open existed, except that any form of player damage was removed? That would stop all of the petty squabbling by bored players who feel they are missing out on their social life in-game, everyone could meet everyone else and no-one would be upset because someone else blew them up... Maybe a tiny area of the game could be set up, not too big, say just a single system, where people could shoot at eachother and make pretty explosions... Naturally this area would have no BGS or PP effect, nor missions to or from, but for those who wish to play shooty-bang-bang and flash their epeens at eachother, it would be perfect, wouldn't it?

 

[Robert Maynard]

If the game spaces functions as they are labeled it would absolutely be better for everyone.

That's remains a matter of opinion.

And that's bold of you to state no one determines what's reasonable after telling me something isn't reasonable.

Just as it was bold to suggest what was all that was needed for players who don't prefer PvP in an Open only mode earlier.

Make the systems function as they are labeled and in accordance with their labels. Especially since the labels are partially supposed to address the issue the flags and solo do. Fixing a problem within the context and design of the game itself is objectively smarter and better game design than tacking on hamfisted things like solo or a flag that makes bullets magic.

In which case this could be done anyway to encourage, rather than force, players to play in Open.

I agree that if you don't want to pvp you shouldn't have to. The game should provide that ability within the context of the in game Galaxy using actual game play mehanics, and loops. Not "haha mode make ships go bye bye"

Frontier's approach to PvP is simple - players can shoot at anything they instance with. The modes offer players who don't enjoy multi-player and/or PvP a way of playing the game their way. How, without flagging, would the game provide a guarantee to players who eschew PvP that they would not encounter it in an Open only context?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Thats how its been Robert. Open never was anything else. You may - and we all have been killed by others - loose your ship. You may get cornered or bullied. You may.
But most off the time your social getting a o7

Indeed - and some, but not all, players like to play that way.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

Wouldn't the game be so much better if only open existed, except that any form of player damage was removed? That would stop all of the petty squabbling by bored players who feel they are missing out on their social life in-game, everyone could meet everyone else and no-one would be upset because someone else blew them up... Maybe a tiny area of the game could be set up, not too big, say just a single system, where people could shoot at eachother and make pretty explosions... Naturally this area would have no BGS or PP effect, nor missions to or from, but for those who wish to play shooty-bang-bang and flash their epeens at eachother, it would be perfect, wouldn't it?

Nah fam. There shouldn't be immuninity zones. Just carrying levels of safety and danger but, never absolute.

Also bad sarcasm is bad

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Well, everything has panned out as it usually does:

The game would be better if everyone was in Open!
Why?
Because modes are broken!
Why?
Because everyone isn't in Open!
Why should everyone be in Open?
Because the game would be better!
Why would the game be better with everyone in Open?
Because modes are broken...

 

[Rat Catcher]

Nah fam. There shouldn't be immunith zones. Just carrying levels of safety and danger but, never absolute.

Totally outta your head wrong, bro...
Gotta have a place for the 'bois to flash' an leave the rest to just rub along, smell me?

 

[House0fDerp]

Right!
The "flaw" if you might want to take it this way, isn't Open at all since it is and remains utterly peaceful at large, its the missing link between modes.
Where Open is freedom and remains peaceful at it it lags the exclusiveness of any other mode

This is by intent and design. Open can't function as open via exclusion. And even those who exclude themselves from open are affected by open. So there is no complete isolation.

 

[Sysmon]

Probably the best way to make it more attractive to play in Open would be to make player-to-player trading more of a thing. That would require a few changes or additions:

• Flying spaceships should require consumables beyond just fuel. That could be Materials, namely simple organics (and perhaps water as a commodity) and basic elements. The rate of use should be low, but based on active crew size.
• For that to work, Materials should be directly tradeable between players and between stations/NPCs and players.
• The prices should be set by the background simulation. Players can set their own prices, of course. But if those prices are wildly different from Station prices, that can have consequences such as nobody wanting to buy from or sell to the player setting the prices.

This commodity scheme would essentially extend commodity upkeep to all flown ships (which would be zero upkeep at stations, although a station docking charge could then be considered). This commodity upkeep could be extended to Fleet Carriers as well, as a substitute for credit-based upkeep when the right commodities are available, the owner toggles commodity upkeep on, or is far enough away from occupied systems that credit-based upkeep does not make sense.

This scheme would be most effective in Open and Player Groups.

S

 

[Cheese Helmet]

That's remains a matter of opinion.

Just as it was bold to suggest what was all that was needed for players who don't prefer PvP in an Open only mode earlier.

In which case this could be done anyway to encourage, rather than force, players to play in Open.

Frontier's approach to PvP is simple - players can shoot at anything they instance with. The modes offer players who don't enjoy multi-player and/or PvP a way of playing the game their way. How, without flagging, would the game provide a guarantee to players who eschew PvP that they would not encounter it in an Open only context?

Oh there shouldn't be a guarantee that something you don't want to happen to you can't, ever. Period. Nada. You should be able to reduce/mitigate the risk. Not eliminate it. The idea that the game must protect you from x danger is the reason people say the game feels dead. Its why power play is functionally abandoned and thargoids we're a disappointment.

So the premise of your question is exactly everything wrong with the game

 

[Rat Catcher]

...
Also bad sarcasm is bad

Said the pot to the kettle...

I think bad sarcasm is ace, bro...