News Community Update (01/05)

amigacooke

amigacooke
Viajero said:
That is certainly one view. A different view (also directly reflected in public statements in the matter) can be based in the fact that the delivery of those elements was not even guaranteed and was subject to Elite Dangerous viability as a franchise to start, and with which was obviously unproven at the time. Now, given that actual delivery was not guaranteed I think it seems reasonable to expect that a date for that could not be offered either, even in rough estimate. Either way, it has always been FDEV resources, funding and risk, so also their decision.
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I'm sure you're very familiar with the development video by David Braben which makes it very clear that he expects Elite Feet to be a feature. Are you suggesting he was doing a Sean and writing chequers that he couldn't cash?

I do not make any distinction in the statement for types of LEPs. Minority of LEPs is simply making reference to the fact LEP units are a minority of total units sold. LEPers have paid in advance for all future content (including space legs and atmos if they come out). Non LEPers have not and therefore "misleading" is quite a severe moot point in the discussion of accountability compared to the other offered example of NMS pre-sales and sales during launch for actually missing content.
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I'm sure you didn't mean to, but the phrasing is incorrect, you're talking about a minority of the user base, not of LEPers. Whether people have been misled or not doesn't depend on whether they have paid money or not. I'm fairly sure Frontier wouldn't take the position that they can mislead potential customers because they haven't paid any money yet.
 

VR StarLightPL

VR StarLightPL
Viajero said:
I do not make any distinction in the statement for types of LEPs. Minority of LEPs is simply making reference to the fact LEP units are a minority of total units sold.
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He's got a point though, it is bad phrasing as saying "a minority of something" implies that it's only a part of said something. It would be better phrased "a minority of players who purchased the LEP". Maybe someone native in English can phrase that better.
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
StarLightPL said:
He's got a point though, it is bad phrasing as saying "a minority of something" implies that it's only a part of said something. It would be better phrased "a minority of players who purchased the LEP". Maybe someone native in English can phrase that better.
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I would have chosen something like "The minority of players who hold LEP's" as a short form, but anything with "LEP" in will raise someone's hackles :)
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
amigacooke said:
I'm sure you didn't mean to, but the phrasing is incorrect, you're talking about a minority of the user base, not of LEPers.
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It can be read as both 'a minority group, consisting of LEP owners' and 'a minority group within LEP owners'. Context makes it clear he means the first one. It's not ideally phrased, but it's rather weak-spirited to latch onto this on international forums.
 

amigacooke

amigacooke
StarLightPL said:
He's got a point though, it is bad phrasing as saying "a minority of something" implies that it's only a part of said something. It would be better phrased "a minority of players who purchased the LEP". Maybe someone native in English can phrase that better.
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Sorry, that's still the same error. How about

'LEPers, a player base minority, '
 

VR StarLightPL

VR StarLightPL
amigacooke said:
Sorry, that's still the same error. How about

'LEPers, a player base minority, '
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This is veering into offtopic as we essentially arguing grammar, but I did mention "purchase", implying that they paid ;-) Though when analysing what was promised grammar could be important, so... ;-) naaah let's drop it :D I like "player base minority" better :D
 

amigacooke

amigacooke
Ian Skippy said:
It can be read as both 'a minority group, consisting of LEP owners' and 'a minority group within LEP owners'. Context makes it clear he means the first one. It's not ideally phrased, but it's rather weak-spirited to latch onto this on international forums.
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It's clearer to phrase it without ambiguity. It's clearer for everyone, including those for whom English is not their primary language.
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
amigacooke said:
I'm sure you're very familiar with the development video by David Braben which makes it very clear that he expects Elite Feet to be a feature. Are you suggesting he was doing a Sean and writing chequers that he couldn't cash?
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I am not suggesting anything. I am simply pointing to the fact FDEV also stated in diverse forms that delivery of those was not guaranteed, and was going to always be subject to their views on the franchise viability.

amigacooke said:
I'm sure you didn't mean to, but the phrasing is incorrect, you're talking about a minority of the user base, not of LEPers.
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I have always referred to LEPs as a minority. Glad we are in the same page now.

amigacooke said:
Whether people have been misled or not doesn't depend on whether they have paid money or not.
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I guess that is going to be the point where we are going to have to leave it to agree to disagree I am afraid. If you can not see how the level of accountability is orders of magnitude different in those two cases there is not much else I can tell you. For space legs and atmos not only because of the obvious issue of non guaranteed viability in the first place, but also because I personally find it very hard to seriously hold anyone accountable for something no one (except the minority of LEPers) has yet paid a single dollar for (unlike NMS original and very successful pre sales and sales on launch). I am afraid it is FDEV´s money, their resources, their risk and therefore their decision about how and when to release those.
 

amigacooke

amigacooke
Viajero said:
II guess that is going to be the point where we are going to have to leave it to agree to disagree I am afraid. If you can not see how the level of accountability is orders of magnitude different in those two cases there is not much else I can tell you.
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You may be talking about accountability, I'm talking about being misled.

To be charitable to Frontier, I suspect they don't like playing slippery games to try to evade apparent commitments in past communications. That may be at the heart of the GCHQ level of security for 2021vision, they really don't want to announce anything that can't be delivered.
 

Wrecked

Wrecked
amigacooke said:
...Whether people have been misled or not doesn't depend on whether they have paid money or not. I'm fairly sure Frontier wouldn't take the position that they can mislead potential customers because they haven't paid any money yet.
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I would also add to that argument that those players who have made ED purchasing decisions that were influenced by the early market material from FDev have every right to feel misled as well. It is not just the LEP owners who have put money into the game based on a vision.
 

Whiskey Galore

Whiskey Galore
The only way working from home in any industry will beneficial will be when mixed reality becomes cheap and the virtual office is the way forward. Those companies who invest in this new arena will rake it in, especially in the shadow of covid-19.
I work from home and I don't think technology is there yet. A cheap mixed reality visor and a virtual city needs to be in there first.
As for the announcement I really don't think people want early releases. Software companies should never announce release dates until they have completed alpha testing. Anything else always leads to a failure to deliver and a failure to communicate as those who announce releases before there is anything to release are talking about things they have no idea about. They are usually marketing people who are clueless about what is possible and what is not given any time-frame.
 

Pigletslastand

Pigletslastand
Not surprising really but it must be serious if you plan on missing the holiday sales period and launch in the belt-tightening season instead. Yikes!
 
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