VR-Heads: Would You Want A Virtual Cockpit?

[Flimley]

Yeah combat is the hot crucible where this would be made or broken.

(PS I'm not sure they'd have to change the HUD interface radically though would they? Shifting the panels closer + enlarging isn't a major change. As far as I can tell everything could be potentially 'finger selected' once that's done).

Anyways, fun to speculate about

Much hilarity would ensue for the partners observing though. think of all the YouTube videos alone

As for changing the HUD. Hard for me to speculate, I only use design software and know little about programming these days. But to hazard a guess, adding support for such devices is a task within itself. And frontier are not coding in support for additional VR headsets “at this time” let alone anything else.

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Elite feet would be best experience with touch controllers though. That’s for sure!
is all so tragic

Flimley

 

[VR Golgot]

That's not a downside, that's terminal. Try NMS and you'll find out why... Their ships and vehicles are a joke in VR.

I'm all for having responsive screens and button you can poke at, so long as HOTAS support is maintained as it is. I'll stick with my HOTAS.

NMS isn’t the best example though. There are better, more sim-leaning, examples mentioned in the OP . (And some harrowingly bad indie implementations, which I’ll leave nameless )

 

[Turd Ferguson]

This is the big thing for me. I'm an FA-off, dual stick race pilot. There's some serious abuse going on for my poor gimbals, and that's why they're now duralumin. I just worry air wouldn't cut it.

I'd definitely try it tho, just to pretend I was in Picard

I was never a Picard fan.

 

[Crank Larson]

NMS isn’t the best example though. There are better, more sim-leaning, examples mentioned in the OP . (And some harrowingly bad indie implementations, which I’ll leave nameless )

NMS is pretty much the example of how not to implement it. But for control, I still prefer a physical stick even if buttons, etc. are virtual. Pretend sticks really don't sit well with me - I want feedback, which I don't get by waving my hands in the air.

 

[Ganogati]

I was never a Picard fan.

Not entirely sure how I felt about the show itself, but Cris Rios and that ship full of holograms of himself with pointlessly different accents may well be the best thing that I've ever seen in a Star Trek. Flying that ship seems really miserable, not really touching anything just kinda waving your hands around (what do you do if you sneeze? Smash into a planet?), but otherwise it's definitely my favorite ship/crew now.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Not entirely sure how I felt about the show itself, but Cris Rios and that ship full of holograms of himself with pointlessly different accents may well be the best thing that I've ever seen in a Star Trek. Flying that ship seems really miserable, not really touching anything just kinda waving your hands around (what do you do if you sneeze? Smash into a planet?), but otherwise it's definitely my favorite ship/crew now.

literally handwavium.

 

[jojon]

I would absolutely love to be able to briefly let go of my HOTAS, to navigate maps with my bare hands (...and without "leaving" the cockpit, too). I've got a wider-FOV-than-previous-models Leap Motion plug-in module on order for my Pimax, and hope that there will exist some use for it, in some capacity... An OS-compliant global virtual keyboard would be a good start... :7

As for at least having a stable joint, even if it's without them vitally important springs and things, for spatially tracked hand controllers doing the virtual flightsticks thing: I saw some people taking a magnetic-ball-and-socket mobile phone holder thingie, and glueing one part to their armrest, and the other to the base of their contollers… :7

 

[VR Golgot]

As for changing the HUD. Hard for me to speculate, I only use design software and know little about programming these days. But to hazard a guess, adding support for such devices is a task within itself.

Ah right, I thought you meant layout for some reason. Yeah for sure, actually making them VR-interactive would be a big slice of work I’m sure.

And frontier are not coding in support for additional VR headsets “at this time” let alone anything else.

On VR support, in fairness to them they have added support for ‘additional’ headsets regarding the market leaders (index / rift s).

I don’t really buy the whole ‘VR discontinued because they won’t support Pimax / officially support WMR’ thing. Or because of the front page changes (which dumped HOTAS branding too).

It’s always possible, VR is still very niche, and ED is ultimately designed ‘2D first’. But I think news of VR’s death may have been overstated to date

Elite feet would be best experience with touch controllers though. That’s for sure!
is all so tragic

Too soon for gloom man, too soon for gloom. It’s always odds on that FDev will do something properly eccentric

 

[VR Golgot]

I would absolutely love to be able to briefly let go of my HOTAS, to navigate maps with my bare hands (...and without "leaving" the cockpit, too). I've got a wider-FOV-than-previous-models Leap Motion plug-in module on order for my Pimax, and hope that there will exist some use for it, in some capacity... An OS-compliant global virtual keyboard would be a good start... :7

As for at least having a stable joint, even if it's without them vitally important springs and things, for spatially tracked hand controllers doing the virtual flightsticks thing: I saw some people taking a magnetic-ball-and-socket mobile phone holder thingie, and glueing one part to their armrest, and the other to the base of their contollers… :7

I’ve always thought the galaxy map would be a borderline religious experience if you could fly & swipe your way around it . Just imagine re-scaling with the classic hands-together / hands-apart technique

 

[jojon]

Just imagine re-scaling with the classic hands-together / hands-apart technique

Exactly.

 

[Yaga-Shura]

Using motion controls or some form of tracked gloves for galmap maybe (for the novelty of it if nothing else). For controlling ship via virtual stick? No.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Even in VR, I prefer the comfort and ease of use of the KB+M. Yes, a heresy, I know.

 

[Kelster87]

I don't have any VR currently, but have been a supporter of the idea since those clunky low-res things first appeared in the 90's. But, at this point, I just can't see a virtual cockpit working for me. I've got way too many hours of stick (and KB/M) time for a virtual cockpit. I need the real feedback of mashing a mechanical switch, the feel of a stick in my hand. That said, I'm one of those crazies who has in the past wired up a switch panel via parallel port - I used to play a lot of Orbiter. (Should build myself another using USB, much easier now.) As has been mentioned, haptics are a current partial answer, but they aren't quite ready for the task at a reasonable price point.

As a more general addendum, I don't think virtual environments will ever really be a thing for those situations where we are actually in whatever it is we are piloting. Humans have a sensory system that is based on multiple inputs and outputs, some of which are feedback systems/loops that require some kind of actual feedback. We are tactile creatures and the virtual environment doesn't currently fully support that. It's a cool idea, but not so practical.

 

[leeG]

what I WOULD like to see:

2) cockpits that don't obscure more than half of your field of view with useless static display masks. I want more ships like the T9/T10, Asp Explorer....basically the Lakon ships got it right for VR. The rest...kind of meh. The Sidewinder, Eagle, and Courier are ok too....but the Lakon ships is the place to be for VR.

The cockpit field of view is one of my pet peeves. The Lakon ships are superb in VR and Falcon DeLacy ships can’t hold a candle to them. I just wish Frontier would clean up the Asp cockpits a bit. If not better grade materials, at least take a scrub brush to them and a fresh coat of paint.

 

[VR Golgot]

As has been mentioned, haptics are a current partial answer, but they aren't quite ready for the task at a reasonable price point.

By haptics earlier I was referring to the buzz in the controller (as with console controllers etc). When nicely deployed it can actually get you half-way there to a sensation of interaction (especially with sci-fi leaning stuff like poking a holo-display. Stuff you wouldn’t expect to be tangible anyway, but could see having some kind of minor discharge or static response or something. Can help denote different areas / affirm interaction etc.)

With sticks it can provide scaling feedback to help gauge distance from centre-point and stuff like that.

It’s never gonna be the same as having an actual Saitek in your hand, and modelled in game . (Which is my set up as it goes ). But it’s got some novel possibilities

 

[VR Golgot]

Even in VR, I prefer the comfort and ease of use of the KB+M. Yes, a heresy, I know.

I am trying so hard not to peripheral-shame right now

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Funny I remember thinking about ED while watching that Picard's episode where the ship's firmware was spamming targeted commercials in the crew's holoHUDs while landing. Like AdBlockers and firewalls were lost tech in the future... Bad, bad sci-fi.

I'd say virtual UI for browsing galmap could be great, but for piloting it would need to be customizable and complex enough. I cant see a simple VR theremin working. With a gamepad, each thumb gets two analog axes to work with, then there's the two analog triggers (I wasnt able to map them for analog forward and reverse thrusters tho, only full or off). And a load of button combinations. They would need to allow mapping of every buttons of the VR controllers to make it worth it, with an abstract layer of control, not just pinch that and press this, and it would take a while to learn. But it sounds fun.

This thread made me think about the new stuff they're doing to mix binaural audio in VR nowadays, if you're curious check this out :

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_Z3UtfqK6s

 

[VR Golgot]

They would need to allow mapping of every buttons of the VR controllers to make it worth it, with an abstract layer of control, not just pinch that and press this, and it would take a while to learn. But it sounds fun.

Oh yeah for sure, I think controller key use would be a must too. Especially for high-pressure precision stuff like combat, and possibly more ‘3D’ interactions like the maps etc. (Don’t want to scroll through the map by crawling like a zombie or something for a start ). Definitely some kind of hybrid approach would be the way.

They’ve got a fair few inputs though as a rule (and with use of ‘shift key’ mapping you can get double the use etc). Certainly I reckon I could fit a lot of core essentials / shortcuts onto the Oc controller.

I may not be thinking it all through, but I can’t help thinking the current panels could work mainly as-is though. (Stab ‘deploy fighter’, stab ‘NPC as helm’. Flick list of sub-targets down, stab ‘cargo bay’ etc)

Additions would be great (resizing, repositioning, batch grabbing etc etc), but I kinda feel like the current tabs, lists & clicks could be transposed.

This thread made me think about the new stuff they're doing to mix binaural audio in VR nowadays, if you're curious check this out :

Yeah audio positioning can add so much to making a believably 3D world. And unfortunately seems to be the first thing cut to free up resources for the 90fpsx2 visuals :/

 

[Kelster87]

By haptics earlier I was referring to the buzz in the controller (as with console controllers etc). When nicely deployed it can actually get you half-way there to a sensation of interaction (especially with sci-fi leaning stuff like poking a holo-display. Stuff you wouldn’t expect to be tangible anyway, but could see having some kind of minor discharge or static response or something. Can help denote different areas / affirm interaction etc.

Ahh, toys.. I've played with some of the remote surgery gear in a lab, was weird cutting things with a scalpel and feeling it from across the lab. It was amazing how much sensory input/feedback it could provide.

With sticks it can provide scaling feedback to help gauge distance from centre-point and stuff like that.

It’s never gonna be the same as having an actual Saitek in your hand, and modelled in game . (Which is my set up as it goes ). But it’s got some novel possibilities

What I played with a while back wasn't far off being able to replicate the stick in hand feeling, I'd be surprised if they hadn't got there.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Oh yeah for sure, I think controller key use would be a must too. Especially for high-pressure precision stuff like combat, and possibly more ‘3D’ interactions like the maps etc. (Don’t want to scroll through the map by crawling like a zombie or something for a start ). Definitely some kind of hybrid approach would be the way.

They’ve got a fair few inputs though as a rule (and with use of ‘shift key’ mapping you can get double the use etc). Certainly I reckon I could fit a lot of core essentials / shortcuts onto the Oc controller.

I may not be thinking it all through, but I can’t help thinking the current panels could work mainly as-is though. (Stab ‘deploy fighter’, stab ‘NPC as helm’. Flick list of sub-targets down, stab ‘cargo bay’ etc)

Additions would be great (resizing, repositioning, batch grabbing etc etc), but I kinda feel like the current tabs, lists & clicks could be transposed.

Repositionning would already be great now even with just the headset, frankly. I always found some of the HUD element too close and in the face, like the FSD countdown for exemple.

Yeah audio positioning can add so much to making a believably 3D world. And unfortunately seems to be the first thing cut to free up resources for the 90fpsx2 visuals :/

True that. Sad as stock headphones on the oculus are pretty decent. I've yet to check Hellblade in VR with them. Seems like UE5 will get convolution reverb from geometry like the good old EAX days tho, if the demo is anything representative.