General / Off-Topic The safest place

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And yet we live in a time where more people enjoy prosperity, freedom and safety than in any other time in the history of the world.
Could it be better? Yes.
Should we continue to strive to make it better? Of course.
Could it be worse? Hell yes.

Try living a year without electricity, plumbing and at the mercy of the elements. Certainly changed my perspective.

Depends on where you look. In the US, for example, wages relative to education and housing cost, live expectancy and incarceration rate are all worse now than they were in the past. In other words: less free, less prosperous and less safe. Sure, it is even worse in Somalia but is that where we are placing the bar now?
 
Depends on where you look. In the US, for example, wages relative to education and housing cost, live expectancy and incarceration rate are all worse now than they were in the past. In other words: less free, less prosperous and less safe. Sure, it is even worse in Somalia but is that where we are placing the bar now?

People living in neverending War zones would also like to have a word...
 
Try living a year without electricity, plumbing and at the mercy of the elements. Certainly changed my perspective.
Always the same arguments. :)

It is not a question of depriving ourselves of the basic vital elements, but of getting rid of the superfluous that poisons the planet and us with.

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😷
 
Always the same arguments. :)

It is not a question of depriving ourselves of the basic vital elements, but of getting rid of the superfluous that poisons the planet and us with.

Hence why said:
"Could it be better? Yes.
Should we continue to strive to make it better? Of course."

But just glaze over that why don't you.
Pray tell what is your grand solution that doesn't drastically change the majority of people life styles and living conditions? You know, without armed conflict or people with guns telling others how to live now.
 
Hence why said:
"Could it be better? Yes.
Should we continue to strive to make it better? Of course."

But just glaze over that why don't you.
Pray tell what is your grand solution that doesn't drastically change the majority of people life styles and living conditions? You know, without armed conflict or people with guns telling others how to live now.

You DO realize that a lot of people with guns have been, or are, telling a lot of people how to live - or simply stop(ped) them living - to get to the point where we are now ? And its just a very boring and outdated strawman to come up with "...best times ever . Think of all the AMENITIES !" .

Criticism of society, financial system, economy, ecological blindness does not mean people are advocating living in a cave . It is about the ways and systems we use to guarantee our "Lifestyle" . It simply is NOT sustainable, and comes at a brutally high cost for everyone on the planet right NOW, and even higher cost for those coming after us . Electricity, housing and plumbing can REALLY be made reality for people without ruining the Planet .
 
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Boy, things are getting bad in Brazil...


They have a large population, a relatively weak medical sector, densely packed slums with poor water supply, and a disorganized pandemic response. It has the potential to outstrip the US in time - both in number of daily cases, and in deaths. Their population is recently enlarged by a Venezuelan migrant cohort, who have little resources and additional language barriers.
 
Speechless at the ongoing fiasco of Brazil's Response to the Pandemic .

In other news :

WHA73 Resolution A73/CONF.1/1 Rev.1, available as .pdf at https://apps.who.int/gb/ebwha/pdf_files/WHA73/A73_CONF1Rev1-en.pdf

A73/CONF.1/1 Rev.1
OP 9.10, page 7 :
Initiate, at the earliest appropriate moment, and in consultation with Member States, a stepwise process of impartial, independent and comprehensive evaluation, including using existing mechanisms, as appropriate, to review experience gained and lessons learned from the WHO-coordinated international health response to COVID-19[...]

Thats going to be interesting to say the least...
 
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Cambridge uni has moved all courses online until summer 2021...
Can’t say I’m surprised, I’ve been telling my uni colleagues who thought things would be back to normal by September that they were being um, optimistic...

That is ominous.
It's possible to gain local control and regional eradication if the travel remains restricted. But as long as there is a reservoir of virus elsewhere in the world, the threat persists. How long do we have to make adjustments? Obviously till V-Day. Vaccine day.

There is a significant problem with the kind of short-cutting vaccine research we are getting. The Oxford group and the Moderna company have prospective vaccines that both looked promising and then seemed to develop problems. Safety and efficacy are impossible to assess properly in 18 months. Look:
Simple questions when the vaccine comes out-

1) How many doses will it take?
- We cannot know if the levels of antibody drop after 6 months, if we haven't measured it after 6 months. So let's say that vaccine is ready to try by May next year- nobody has had it injected yet outside of small trials.

Therefore we do not know if we'll need to offer a booster dose, or what percentage of the vaccinated will lose immunity, till at least we use it on humans for a year, and measure the effect. Does the second booster dose last 6 more months? 3? 9? How do we know if we don't actually test? We can't.

Therefore we cannot say what the dose schedule is supposed to be. That might take some trials and maybe 2-3 years to figure out.

2) How many people will actually get protection?
- The assumption is that if you get the shot, you are all good, right?
Wrong.
A vaccine has an efficacy rating - a percentage of people that get immunity after the dose. How will we know what that is, till we use it, and see who gets sick later? Is it 99%? 25%? It kind of matters A LOT. A 25% protected population is highly at risk still. The WHO lower limit, let me not discourage you, is a paltry 50%. If the vaccines score lower, they will not be approved. And they shouldn't be. If the immunity starts of at 50% but peters out in 4 months, that vaccine is no good is it?

3) Who should be medically exempted?
- A key question for safety, is the list of known situations where it's unsafe to use. We are not going to know this with authority, for at least 5 years of use, and data collection. All kinds of things pop up over time.

The first generation Coronavirus Vaccine might be something to avoid right off the bat, for say a 3-6 month break in period. Let an initial cohort try it in a high risk area, where the use is justifiable.

4) Can it cause the disease?
- Sounds stupid, but attenuated viruses have been known to sometimes give disease effects. Sometimes they are not so "attenuated" -especially if manufacturing is rushed.


 
Nothing beats being educated by someone who actually has a clue . Thanks one more time Robin .

Just feel like adding : just so, one more time it is imporant to listen and read carefully, and manage expectations .

It is being promoted widely that a Vaccine may be ready within 12-18 months . That this does not mean its efficacy is known, and includes many other unknowns, is not communicated clearly and openly enough worldwide . It really seems like a lot of people who REALLY know about Vaccines, development/testing cycles/efficacy etc. simply assume the general public does know how to read/understand the Information correctly .
 
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For the people still keeping score on the "everything is normal" and "lockdowns are phoney" game.

It's amazing how blasé the Swedes are about this. I wonder if someone filled a bag will 99 white marbles and 1 black and went around to every home saying "Everyone has to draw and the black marble dies - for the economy you understand" if they'd just take that too.
 
COVID-19 in New York City: a prospective cohort study : a New York City cohort (N=257) had 39% deaths, 37% still in hospital, 79% ventilator use. >25% were age <50; (@EricTopol)

""The study conveys important messages. In particular, it shows that the disease is characterised by a high mortality (101 [39%] after a minimum follow-up of 28 days) & prolonged clinical course !"

 
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