You had the simple maths of how goldilock zones works. That was all you needed to eyeball what was worth scanning. After a while you could easily determine what was worthwhile scanning from looking at a system map for a few seconds.
I still hate the new style of exploration even after adjusting to it.
- Thread starter Crusina Luachra
- Start date
In this case they just have to make the honk just show planets on system map without discovering them , and everyone will be happy no ? I understand that you liked the old system for that . Just to me FSS and DSS advantages outcome this.
Also in FSS you can really fast spot earthlike and water world so it match old system , the only drawback is for hight metal terra world, that were also hard to spot before.
So no , in fact , 0 difference , design is basicly the same, instead of looking for colour/patter you just look for frequencies.
YOu just have to honk + FSS mode once to spot if any thing is valuable. The more I dig in this system the more i think they did it well.
Also in FSS you can really fast spot earthlike and water world so it match old system , the only drawback is for hight metal terra world, that were also hard to spot before.
So no , in fact , 0 difference , design is basicly the same, instead of looking for colour/patter you just look for frequencies.
YOu just have to honk + FSS mode once to spot if any thing is valuable. The more I dig in this system the more i think they did it well.
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Yes, that would be an acceptable compromise. If they'd insist it would break the reason for the FSS to exist, they could easily make the FSS work like that, as I mentioned. Put a simple filter option in there based on the maths we used to rely on. That filter could easily be applied to binary and trinary systems without "breaking" the FSS. They could even expand on that, to let us target other types of objects, like gas giants likely to have big icy rings or maybe even massive planets if the maths would include sensing how objects masses affected the whole system.
I'm all for the FSS and new DSS, they just have to fix the obvious design failures with both.
I'm all for the FSS and new DSS, they just have to fix the obvious design failures with both.
Yes.
The problem with the FSS is its gating all of the system information behind itself. You need to finish exploring with the FSS to even be able to tell if a system is interesting enough to explore because you don’t get enough information until you DO complete the FSS. Sure if you are just hunting ELW’s then a quick glance at the spectrograph is all you need, but if you are searching for surface geology, or biologics, or GGG’s, or colorful planets, or binary pairs, or shepherd moons, or ringed giants, or interesting system configs, or jump mats, or pretty much anything except specific world types then you HAVE to complete the entire FSS minigame. Every. Fracking. Time.
Before, with the ADS, the honk could tell us a lot of information fast. We got quick up front info which enabled us to choose whether or not to explore a system. Now, with the FSS, we have to explore the system to be able to tell if we even want to explore the system.
There are ways to fix this conundrum. It would require dividing out the info dump into stages of exploration rather than putting it all behind the FSS. For example:
Basically, move some data reveal over to the honk from the FSS but also give flying the ship around a system some utility. This gives us more upfront data to make quick decisions from BEFORE using the FSS on the entire system. Pretty much a compromise between the old God Honk and Frontier’s current FSS.
This would be a big improvement in my opinion.
Before, with the ADS, the honk could tell us a lot of information fast. We got quick up front info which enabled us to choose whether or not to explore a system. Now, with the FSS, we have to explore the system to be able to tell if we even want to explore the system.
There are ways to fix this conundrum. It would require dividing out the info dump into stages of exploration rather than putting it all behind the FSS. For example:
- Honk. This gives us the spectrograph, nav panel targets, system map, and orrery with black bodies only, except for stars which are resolved. No planet graphics, no data.
- FSS. We can use this to select and scan planets. No hunting for blue blobs as the honk already located all gravity bodies.
- DSS. Probing works the same as now. Fly up to the planet and surface scan it.
- ALSO, increase the range around the ship by which planets are completely auto scanned. For example, flying up to a gas giant should auto scan all of the moons around it without needing to use the FSS. This permits explorers to scan systems by simply flying around rather than requiring the FSS to absolutely have to be used.
Basically, move some data reveal over to the honk from the FSS but also give flying the ship around a system some utility. This gives us more upfront data to make quick decisions from BEFORE using the FSS on the entire system. Pretty much a compromise between the old God Honk and Frontier’s current FSS.
This would be a big improvement in my opinion.
I still stand by that the current DSS is punishing explorers for doing exploration. We should get rewarded a lot more for selling detailed information about a planet's composition and features, not less. I haven't done the real timing, but I'm sure you'd lose less revenue by simply FSS HMC's and not fly out to DSS them, because of how close we have to get inside the gravity well. I mean, we're selling data to corporations to save them time to find profitable planets to exploit.
It would be easy for the DSS to have a binocular so we could launch probes at a greater distance. I previously said up to 5 Ls away, maybe even more, to give us a chance to cover some ground on a long trip. As it is now, it's an unrewarding time sink to explore.
Another thing that could improve gathering exploration data is how the data is sold. Make different economies and states determine what the want to buy, how much and how distant. Only a huge economy ought to be interested in buying data from the other side of the galaxy. Mining economies should be more interested in buying data about mining prospects, expanding economies should be more interested in terraformable stuff and so on. Maybe for the next season, there could be more signs for alien life to sell for factions interested in that, paying depending on them having sinister or friendly intentions.
But, first, fix the tools we have now to make exploration great again. \o/
It would be easy for the DSS to have a binocular so we could launch probes at a greater distance. I previously said up to 5 Ls away, maybe even more, to give us a chance to cover some ground on a long trip. As it is now, it's an unrewarding time sink to explore.
Another thing that could improve gathering exploration data is how the data is sold. Make different economies and states determine what the want to buy, how much and how distant. Only a huge economy ought to be interested in buying data from the other side of the galaxy. Mining economies should be more interested in buying data about mining prospects, expanding economies should be more interested in terraformable stuff and so on. Maybe for the next season, there could be more signs for alien life to sell for factions interested in that, paying depending on them having sinister or friendly intentions.
But, first, fix the tools we have now to make exploration great again. \o/
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I'm sorry to put it this way, but exploring to find ELWs and alike is the same grind as mining. The point many are trying to make is that the old system allowed seasoned explorers to finding interesting places, anomalies and vistas, and they have now the necessary system information locked behind a tedious minigame - considering the rarity of those location, FSS basically killed exploration.
I sort of feel now that FDev should make ADS and FSS two mutually exclusive modules that explorers can pick before leaving into the black. Shame we missed the opportunity to push back when this abomination was introduced...
Well if honk is showing map system , FSS is planet scan and DSS surface i dont see the problem you can have everything. 2 mutulaly exlusive may be really painfull.
Also ELW were just some example, when i'm exploring i'm more here for other things.
If honk give you the map system , and FSS give you detailed scan (bio/geo) and DSS give you structures we may all have what we want .
It is tedious and much much slower for sure. But its better than HONK WIN. Which was absurd.
I just think the payouts need to be increased seriously and make some serious missions - go out and fully map all these systems including planets get 40M etc.. then you can take a trip get the reward and cash in the exploration.
I just think the payouts need to be increased seriously and make some serious missions - go out and fully map all these systems including planets get 40M etc.. then you can take a trip get the reward and cash in the exploration.
No, it is not. It is just a tedious minigame one has to go through if one wants to see the system layout, if there might be something in the system making the system worthwile to explore.
The ADS honk did not give any 1st discovered tags, FSS gives you all that ADS + DSS gave back then.
ADS with black bodies could exist peacefully with FSS, but alas, that ship has sailed and we have just HONK ZOOM WIN.
Nope it wouldn't be painful - actually to me it makes more sense the more I think about it. One system for those going for the tags and payout, another system for those going for the interesting locations like those listed in the galactic mapping project (most of them doesn't worth much, by the way).
Except to, erm, explore it? You're only going to find rocks to shoot and nice views, but some of those views remain jaw-droppingly spectacular and well worth landing to look for.
You can do that without even taking an SRV or landing, just flying above the surface.
What have I been doing since then? It's felt like basically the same exploring I was doing before with some slight adjustments but clearly I've gone mad or been blind drunk continuously for the last 18 months.
Ok, you can just descend and not "descend and land" if you want.
Why am I getting sucked into this crud again? I'm having fun playing ED. If you're not then go away.
Ehh...
Are you aware how well exploration pays?
I've just been on a 30 day trip and I got more than 2.6 billion credits for my exploration data.
Missions paying 40 million credits to scan a specific system would be nice to give people who don't know where to go a target, but the money surely wouldn't be a motivation (beside the people going mad all over the forums 'I travelled 50000 light years to do a mission and all I got were 40 million credits!!!').
Well, exploration is still possible, but chances of finding cool stuff are objectively much lower. I will possibly also head out once more but with other side objectives.
There is no win after the honk!, it shows (or used to) any potential target for you to go and address, it's about going out and EXPLORING, if you would rather sit still and look at a blue screen matching wavelengths and blobs then you got what you deserve, you should be happy, others that were outspoken about this at the time were completely ignored by FDev and shouted down by the many cries of "anything is better than holding a button.. bla bla bla" but many of the shouts came from 'non explorers' the ADS should have been developed and extended not thrown out and replaced with a free 'massless moduled' (as encouragement/bribery as it frees up a slot) minigame, it's cheap and tacky to build such a mechanic.
As for your second point... jeeezzzz, payouts need to be seriously lowered, many explorers aren't gold digger grinders, they're explorers! a good few would say "cover my petrol and I'm gone"
I don't underestand why people still think the old ADS system was an "I win" button. It's the complete opposite for me, before (4 years of playing) FSS I had 700 million and that included road to riches. FSS comes along and with a couple of play sessions (i.e. I don't play Elite every day and stop for months at a time) I'm now on 4.5 Billion (within a year and a half)...purely thanks to the FSS.
The FSS just makes making money a LOT easier now, I can understand that those looking for the "needle in the haystack" were given a blindfold unless they hopped in a JCB and scooped out a pile of hay 1st. Some like operating the JCB some do not. I can take it in short intense bursts. Then I have to move on to something else for a few days.
The FSS just makes making money a LOT easier now, I can understand that those looking for the "needle in the haystack" were given a blindfold unless they hopped in a JCB and scooped out a pile of hay 1st. Some like operating the JCB some do not. I can take it in short intense bursts. Then I have to move on to something else for a few days.
Or alternatively, you can follow your own advice and fart off if you dislike this particular thread.
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