ANNOUNCEMENT Elite Dangerous: Odyssey Announcement

[Patrick_68000]

Honestly you need to stop posting stuff like this if you have no experience of it. YES it's true it takes a little getting used to for most players and there are certain things you should not do in VR (VR best practice of things not to do if you will) and yes it is true a small number of folk can't use vr

But people constantly posting VR makes you puke is just FUD spreading...

Because the SAME thing is true on a.monitor. some people get epileptic fits looking at a screen, some people get migraines or headaches.
Some people get eye strain

But folks don't jump in listing all these issues playing on a monitor even if they are true.

Indeed most people get less eye strain in VR because your eyes are relaxed focused to infinity rather than a fixed focal point.
I sometimes get motion sick in monitor games, esp if there is no FOV adjustment.

So sure whilst technically it is true some people get sick in VR most don't if they are sensible and if it is a well made game using a high quality properly configured HMD

I have had 6 hr vr sessions stopping only for a toilet stop in ED with no issues at all. The only compromise I made was the horizon lock in the SRV. Also VR nausea does not jump out on you. You get warning signs and as soon as you get those you just stop for an hr

It is a bit like scuba diving number 1 rule.. (possibly number 2 or 3 rule but you catch my drift)
In scuba diving if your ears hurt and you can't equalise properly you DONT push on through even if the sea bed is only a few.more m down


And in VR you don't push on through if you are starting to feel clammy or queezy

If I say that, this is that I have read some doctors who say so.

And your explanations show that it's still something sensitive.

However I want to believe that this affects a minority of people.

 

[K M Butler]

Looks like a neat thing to look forward to. Much kudos to devs. Relishing the return of the diaries. Maybe sneak peeks too? Message to the flock of goggled negaTories: All the breastbeating and filibustering about not starting with VR, though, has me thinking less jaundiced thoughts of the trite phrase "social distancing". Also, it's not even nontrivial enough to qualify as a "first-world problem".

 

[[VR]m335]

VR does cause more motion sickness, and it is about the same between narrow FOV headsets like Oculus, or wide FOV headsets like Pimax. Part of the problem is undoubtedly the complete isolation from any stable frame of reference (ie. the rest of the room).

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

Now, I haven't played that many VR games myself, so in those terms, I don't really care in one way or the other if Odyssey has it on launch or not. But The VR games I've played, even when portrayed in 1st person, weren't really controlled like 1st person games usually are. They had controls like teleport moving to spot or like in the case of Republique, you control cameras and give directions to another character.

What I am getting here is a question those of you with more experience with VR, how does direct 1st person movement fare in current-generation VR devices? Is it possible, that FD, just like so many other devs, just hasn't found the proper way of making walking movement in VR feel good enough, so they are because of that reluctant to promise a VR support at launch?

I suppose it depends on the game and/or the controller you use. For example borderlands 2 vr lets you either use ps move controller or regular ps4 controller i love being able to ain my guns with my arms or blind firing from behind cover or if dual wield aim at 2 targets at a time but movement is either aim and teleport or aim and press the move button but inhibits my ability to effectively be moving and attacking at the same time. If I use a regular controller its no different than not vr but with full 360° head look. I can still only aim in front of my but am much more capable in combat. Idk if that helps but thats been my experience with it. Im aware there are much better VR equipment than im able to use so my experience is quite limited

 

[Patrick_68000]

Of the VR stuff I've tried myself, the only time I did feel nauseous was during a rollercoaster ride experience sim thingie, which was somewhat funny because I've never felt nauseous after or during a real rollercoaster ride.

It's really the kind of attraction (real or virtual) that would make my stomach go outside.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

And they also may need to configure their games properly. I play a game called Project Cars which offers an amazing VR racing sim, but you have to turn off all the visual effects related to the motion of the car meant for flat screens or you will get instant nausea. It happened to me until I did that and then everything was fine.

Yeah some effects that work in a screen don't translate well to VR
But like you say just turn em off in VR.

Indeed this is getting close to an interesting point (well it is to me anyway) I made (unrelated to ED).... Some things in VR makes your stomach churn in VR because it would in real life.
Some KB/M FPS players will sometimes argue that KB/M does not allow you to play in a totally outrageous unrealistic way. It is a point I have made in discussions about why I personally think more effective does not always mean "better" when it comes to gaming.
So go play a COD like game in VR using KB/M and play like you play on a screen and then tell me how you play is even close to realistic.

Then Play again using full body tracking and motion controllers.... It plays in a completely incomparable way . Less effective in some ways for sure but far more sensible.

Pad control plays closer to realistic than KB/M

 

[[VR] Mad Life Crisis]

something ingested interfering with the inner ear

The inner ear(s) give us a sense of balance. If what we see doesn't correlate with what we interpret via the inner ear, nausea is induced. This is because the symptoms of poisoning are similar, and our bodies have evolved to reject whatever it is that has been consumed.

When on a boat (not on deck), our eyes will see things horizontally, but the rocking motion of the boat on the inner ears does not match what our eyes are telling us. Our bodies respond accordingly.

Why some get motion sickness to varying degrees, whilst others' none at all. No idea.

 

[[VR]m335]

Looks like a neat thing to look forward to. Much kudos to devs. Relishing the return of the diaries. Maybe sneak peeks too? Message to the flock of goggled negaTories: All the breastbeating and filibustering about not starting with VR, though, has me thinking less jaundiced thoughts of the trite phrase "social distancing". Also, it's not even nontrivial enough to qualify as a "first-world problem".

This is not about some stupid video game (yes, that's what Elite Dangerous is).

This is about the technology. FDev has significantly held back that technology from what others would likely have achieved by now without the vaporware 'competition'.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

Exactly. The biggest issue is your brain. When you are in VR and the world around you feels real and your character in game moves and your own physical body does not...that's what causes the nausea so you either have to train yourself to get over it or just not do it or use the teleporting method of movement (I just don't like that as I feel ruins the experience and the point of VR)

When i first used vr, maybe for the first week or so, things in the real world started looking fake or like I was still in VR. It was a little cool at first but after a few days i started to question reality. It went away when i took a week long break and hasnt come back but it is interesting to say the least

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If I say that, this is that I have read some doctors who say so.

And your explanations show that it's still something sensitive.

However I want to believe that this affects a minority of people.

Like I said it's not untrue but neither is what I said about monitor gaming but that is just accepted without people feeling the need to post it regardless of if it affects them or not.
VR has the extra hurdle of it needing a few days gaining your legs which IS an issue for getting people into VR. Unless you are one of the lucky ones you won't know if VR is a good or a bad fit for you after your 1st 10 min go

(I remember people telling me I would go blind if I played computer games too much back when I was a kid, but I can still see now)




Or maybe that was pr0n I dunno I get confused and forgetful .. must be all those cancer rays from my mobile phone

 

[Patrick_68000]

VR does cause more motion sickness, and it is about the same between narrow FOV headsets like Oculus, or wide FOV headsets like Pimax. Part of the problem is undoubtedly the complete isolation from any stable frame of reference (ie. the rest of the room).

Yes the total loss of contact with reality.

A bit like headphones with music at high volume when you walk on the street.

 

[CodeJunkie]

Like I said it's not untrue but neither is what I said about monitor gaming but that is just accepted without people feeling the need to post it regardless of if it affects them or not.
VR has the extra hurdle of it needing a few days gaining your legs which IS an issue for getting people into VR. Unless you are one of the lucky ones you won't know if VR isn't good or a bad fit for you after your 1st 10 min go

Exactly. Going back in time like 20 years or so and you did have tons of people complaining about 3d games in general causing nausea. It didn't stop anyone from continuing to make them.

 

[CodeJunkie]

A bit like headphones with music at high volume when you walk on the street.

To some degree yes, but it's more so about removing senses and not replacing them. Like tactile feedback and motion.

 

[[VR]m335]

Actually, upon reading the Wikipedia article again, it is pretty clear Frontier Developments meets both vaporware definitions, right from the start. Elite Dangerous core features have been both going out of support, and not actually intended to be created.

This is fraud on the general public, much akin to Microsoft behavior, albeit such anti-monopoly lawsuits too rarely succeed (and even more rarely bring corrective results).

Most damning of all, FDev, as a software publisher, with timelines on the order of years, does not have the excuses of hardware supply disruption (far more substantial than working from home).

I have no problem with reasonable mistakes having been made, or paying a reasonable subscription for a quality space sim multiplayer experience. I do think FDev's continued path is blatantly unethical.

 

[VR andysonofbob]

Several choices of how to move around. from a review. Link

• Blink: "Teleport to destinations with a brief screen fade. (Most comfortable)"
• Shift: "Teleport to destinations with a fast linear movement."
• Continuous: "Move continuously based on your head orientation."
• Continuous Hand: "Move continuously based on hand orientation."

So Frontier have several choices of how movement could be implemented and thus the players as well. I only play seated in VR and also lucky to have all/most the bells and whistles as well

And dont forget combinations of your top 2 of the list and bottom 2, like HL:A.

 

[CodeJunkie]

Most damning of all, FDev, as a software publisher, with timelines on the order of years, does not have the excuses of hardware supply disruption (far more substantial than working from home).

I've always wondered why they produced an MMO that wasn't subscription based. I mean, the subscription is what pays for your long term development plans...not micro-transactions. Especially, with plans and possibilities as big as this game can/does offer.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Actually, upon reading the Wikipedia article again, it is pretty clear Frontier Developments meets both vaporware definitions, right from the start. Elite Dangerous core features have been both going out of support, and not actually intended to be created.

This is fraud on the general public, much akin to Microsoft behavior, albeit such anti-monopoly lawsuits too rarely succeed (and even more rarely bring corrective results).

Most damning of all, FDev, as a software publisher, with timelines on the order of years, does not have the excuses of hardware supply disruption (far more substantial than working from home).

I have no problem with reasonable mistakes having been made, or paying a reasonable subscription for a quality space sim multiplayer experience. I do think FDev's continued path is blatantly unethical.

A kind of dilatory process, an attitude of procrastination.

 

[[VR]m335]

I've always wondered why they produced an MMO that wasn't subscription based. I mean, the subscription is what pays for your long term development plans...not micro-transactions. Especially, with plans and possibilities as big as this game can/does offer.

Granted that might have been a reasonable mistake.

However...

It needs to be pointed out, what of the millions of dollars raised, that could have been used to meet the most basic reasonable expectations for a multiplayer VR space sim, or even some specific promises. FDev took community money, and now blatantly continues doing whatever they please with it, continuing to leverage the whole vaporware deal.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I've always wondered why they produced an MMO that wasn't subscription based. I mean, the subscription is what pays for your long term development plans...not micro-transactions. Especially, with plans and possibilities as big as this game can/does offer.

They funded the game initially with thousands of kickstarter donations.

At this moment, it would probably have been difficult to say "In addition to donations, you will have to pay a subscription"

This may be one of the reasons.

And then for years, they see on the forums that the vast majority of Cmdrs is against the subscriptions.

 

[CodeJunkie]

It needs to be pointed out, what of the millions of dollars raised, that could have been used to meet the most basic reasonable expectations for a multiplayer VR space sim, or even some specific promises. FDev took community money, and now blatantly continues doing whatever they please with it, continuing to leverage the whole vaporware deal.

Oh I agree completely. I only found out about a lot of that after I started playing and I started around the time Horizons was coming out. But yeah, they fell into the trap that all us developers do. Our eyes are bigger than our stomachs. They promised the world and couldn't deliver and didn't have a fallback. A subscription plan would have..to some degree saved that, but they were trying to produce this game like any other single player or match making FPS game.