Would you be ready to accept a DLC dedicated to VR

[Stanis]

With a moderate price, of course. After the release of Odyssey.

It could be a good decision to have a great VR gameplay, with touch controls, dedicated UI, a real dev team VR.

Also for the "base game" and "Horizons". The current integration is great, but there are many things to enhance, that have never been done.

 

[VR Golgot]

Yes. I would pay extra to ensure a decent VR version. (The VR market brings a low ROI and I understand their hesitation).

Say, for example, £50 rather than £30 to existing players, £60 rather than £40 to new players.

(I’m expecting them to use the same pricing scheme as Horizons. IE £30 for existing players, £40 for new players)

It’s complicated by the LEP, but I would actually be prepared to pay that £20 on top. (IE receive the £30 core game pricing free due to my LEP).

Others may feel differently, but I don’t think the LEP claims to pre-purchase VR in perpetuity, and I do think Odyssey bolsters the chances of more expansions being delivered down the line. So I’d be ok with a scenario like that.

(I wouldn’t be prepared to pay a £50 flat fee with no acknowledgement of the LEP).

 

[VR micmacmoc]

definitely, would pay alot more than that too!

 

[VR - wickfut]

What a great idea. They could also remove HOTAS support and then charge you to put it back in again.

 

[VR Golgot]

What a great idea. They could also remove HOTAS support and then charge you to put it back in again.

Most VR games charge above average to reflect the lower ROI from a much smaller playerbase. FDev haven’t to date, but that in part reflects the ease with which they could add VR to a seated cockpit game.

Adding VR Legs to this game is a much harder undertaking. It would be a major feature addition.

That’s why paying 'VR prices' on this occasion wouldn’t be that unusual, or unreasonable.

Personally I want VR Legs in this game, so I’d pay the premium.

(And I really doubt a VR Odyssey version is going to arrive which doesn’t brings Legs to at least a basic industry standard. So those who are only interested in ship & SRV activities may have to pay that premium too to get what they want. Whether the premium be time waiting for it to be done, or paying extra to make it happen. Guess we’ll see.)

 

[Stanis]

What a great idea. They could also remove HOTAS support and then charge you to put it back in again.

Seriously, develop a VR environment is a little bit more complicated than a controller setting...

But, have a business plan like that, could ensure a great evolution of VR in this game. Sharing ideas with a dedicated VR team. A win win contract with FD.

A little fee for each futur evolution, why not. Better than a drop or botched work, anyway.

It's tiring to wait forever VR evolution. The galaxy map, for example. Or the management of touch control. Curved menu...

 

[Stanis]

Say, for example, £50 rather than £30 to existing players, £60 rather than £40 to new players.

I would say something like £20, max £30. It's less complicated than a core developpement I guess.

But it's the idea, yes.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

More realistic is that we pay for a cut down content tailored to existing spaceship/srv gameplay, that is easier port to VR. I'd easily pay full price as legs leave me cold anyway. Plus a few automatic walking sequence in case there are ship/station interiors to experience them, and that's about it.

 

[VR Golgot]

More realistic is that we pay for a cut down content tailored to existing spaceship/srv gameplay, that is easier port to VR. I'd easily pay full price as legs leave me cold anyway. Plus a few automatic walking sequence in case there are ship/station interiors to experience them, and that's about it.

The whole DLC is predicated on Legs. The PR blurb is 99% 75% about things you do on foot. I just can’t see it happening. Not in concert with the launch push anyway. (And honestly not at all, because it undercuts their flagship new launch in many ways)

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

The whole DLC is predicated on Legs. The PR blurb is 99% about things you do on foot. I just can’t see it happening. Not in concert with the launch push anyway. (And honestly not at all, because it undercuts their flagship new launch in many ways)

It's just the tip of the iceberg content-wise. If they give us access to all accessible planet types in Odyssey, plus new ships and whatnot that is coming, I'm fine with that. I'd even pay for that instead of being cut off from the full content.

 

[itarrow]

Yes I would pay.

 

[VR Golgot]

I would say something like £20, max £30. It's less complicated than a core developpement I guess.

But it's the idea, yes.

Yeah possibly, it would benefit from the core Odyssey work etc. I’d be surprised if they went for parity pricing with the flatscreen launch though.

My guess is that they don’t see ROI on this dev investment because it only drives a relatively 'small' number of units. Small VR market etc. Only by upping the earnings per unit do the numbers add up for them.

That’s my guess. That’s why I think this may be what needs to happen.

 

[VR Golgot]

It's just the tip of the iceberg content-wise. If they give us access to all accessible planet types in Odyssey, plus new ships and whatnot that is coming, I'm fine with that. I'd even pay for that instead of being cut off from the full content.

It seems like the tip of the iceberg, because you’re not interested in it, you’re interested in the perceived mountain of Atmos content behind it.

But go re-read the launch blurb. It’s patently obvious that Legs is the primary feature focus. 3/4 of the feature additions listed are about it.


I may be misunderstanding you here. Are you saying they could slice off the Atmos stuff, as it were, and serve it up as a stand-alone, because it’s the lesser pillar. So like no big deal?

I really can’t see them focusing stuff that isn’t the core feature of their expensive new product. They’re not going to do anything that takes focus off it. (Like sell a sub-DLC that doesn’t contain this primary feature, or launch with VR support that doesn’t meaningfully support this primary feature).

They might do things to keep veterans happy along the way. But their baby currently is making this DLC, and getting it out there successfully. Whole, as a sellable thing, not split up into pieces to assuage our personal preferences.

 

[Cyclinguy]

I'd be happy to pay for a cut down Odyssey with ship and SRV all in VR but with full access to the new planets, and switch to 2D when necessary for legs.

Whether I'd pay extra to get VR legs would depend on exactly what legs game play is like. I'm not at all interested in FPS, so unless there's plenty of other stuff to do on foot, I'd stick with the ship and SRV.

 

[Stanis]

I'd be happy to pay for a cut down Odyssey with ship and SRV all in VR but with full access to the new planets, and switch to 2D when necessary for legs.

Whether I'd pay extra to get VR legs would depend on exactly what legs game play is like. I'm not at all interested in FPS, so unless there's plenty of other stuff to do on foot, I'd stick with the ship and SRV.

Could be cool to have VR for legs, but not oriented for fight. More for exploration, interaction with npc on ground station, legs in ship, social hub for multiplayer likers...

For "nervous fight" fps, VR is not adapted I think. Not yet.
But even for the Odissey without VR, it will not be oriented exclusively for fight.

 

[VR - wickfut]

Most VR games charge above average to reflect the lower ROI from a much smaller playerbase. FDev haven’t to date, but that in part reflects the ease with which they could add VR to a seated cockpit game.

Adding VR Legs to this game is a much harder undertaking. It would be a major feature addition.

That’s why paying 'VR prices' on this occasion wouldn’t be that unusual, or unreasonable.

They overcharge because they know people are thirsty for new VR content. If people didn't pay their rates then they would quickly lower their prices. Give it a few years of people getting bored with the relentless stream of VR me too shooters and music games and their prices will sink to be in line with the rest of the indie prices.

How do you know adding VR legs to a VR game is a hard undertaking? Why would it be a major feature addition? VR is already in the game. They've shown their engine can do it, they've shown they're perfectly capable of doing it, and can do it very well for the last 6 years.

Seriously, develop a VR environment is a little bit more complicated than a controller setting...

So many game devs...

I played Skyrim in VR 2 years before it was released as a VR version. It was done by 1 man with a VorpX .dll mod.
I played a couple of hours of Dragon's Dogma in VR last week. I used the same 1 man mod.
Alien Isolation VR is a 1 man mod. (VR is already in the game but devs toggled it off for some odd reason)

Stop making excuses for a multi-million £ company of professional programmers. They've been doing VR since day 1 so know exactly how to add VR into their game but are choosing not to, probably for system parity and financial reasons for shareholders rather than any technical aspect.

 

[jojon]

No "solution" that cuts off access (in VR) to any gameplay and/or content is an acceptable option, IMO - Period.

That includes kicking down to a 2D view for leggie bits, which is no less unpalatable in virtual theatre format, than it is with forcing you to take off the HMD - much less forcing you to use a "lesser" client build.

I would however accept just a rudimentary stereo headlook+mouse camera for regular mouse-and-keyboard play, as an interim botch-job. Not-particularly-good is still better than none-at-all.

I have personally zero interest in pew-pew (which sounds likely to be a heavy focus in Odyssey) - not in ship, and not on foot, but I most certainly want to have the choice to try my hand at it, along with all those who do appreciate it; and more importantly, I want access to other new gameplay- and experiential- things widening the selection at the things-to-do buffet; For this coming expansion, and for the next, and the next after that.

I have already pledged willingness to pay my way, including for the primitive proposition above; I do realise the (EDIT: ...likely...) ROI- and available staff situation. How many manhours can one dedicate to a small percentage of the player base, and how well can one schedule it without hold-ups and collisions...

...but If I am to pay for VR support in "proper" official DLC form, and at a premium; Then I would expect more: Give me a value proposal, FDev, but in that case I'd say we'd be looking into proper room-scale- and head/hand/eye-tracked interactions, fully developed diagetic interfaces, multiple well-researched locomotion options, graphical effects that do not behave strangely, etc, etc; Developed and given running maintanence under a dedicated full-time-ish lead with a fair bit of influence.

Sooner or later OpenXR, whose 1.0 specification were finalised some time ago, will supplant/absorb current proprietary VR API:s... Don't know whether this is influencing FDev's evaluations at all, or if they even know about it...

 

[VR micmacmoc]

If, yes we can, afford the posters that affords this. Then yes we should,

 

[Cyclinguy]

Could be cool to have VR for legs, but not oriented for fight. More for exploration, interaction with npc on ground station, legs in ship, social hub for multiplayer likers...

For "nervous fight" fps, VR is not adapted I think. Not yet.
But even for the Odissey without VR, it will not be oriented exclusively for fight.

I think the problem is that any legs scenario on a planet could potentially develop into a combat scenario, even in solo, except maybe outside the bubble

 

[VR Golgot]

They overcharge because they know people are thirsty for new VR content. If people didn't pay their rates then they would quickly lower their prices. Give it a few years of people getting bored with the relentless stream of VR me too shooters and music games and their prices will sink to be in line with the rest of the indie prices.

Sure, VR owners being approx 2% of the Steam base, for example, can't possibly have an impact on unit sales compared to normal games. Madness to think so

(Honestly pal, if you'd read all the tales from indies that have made zip from their VR games, and AAs that have only made a game that lavish due to direct funding from the likes of Oculus, and say they'd never risk such a game from sales alone, you'd realise the coalface aspect of this).

But really the brass tack numbers should tell its own story. VR is niche currently. It's not controversial or new information

How do you know adding VR legs to a VR game is a hard undertaking? Why would it be a major feature addition? VR is already in the game. They've shown their engine can do it, they've shown they're perfectly capable of doing it, and can do it very well for the last 6 years.

For a start the VR they have implemented is about as simple as it gets. Seated. No motion controllers, no locomotion, no hand interaction, no character exchanges or gameplay, no related character AI that has the react to those elements, etc etc. It's about as close to plug and play as you can get. All of the inputs are the same for both VR & flatscreen to control the ship and have the same outputs. Job done.

Odyssey is orders of magnitude more involved on those fronts.

One aspect worth noting is that it's practically untrodden ground. Not in the sense of doing roomscale, or using motion controllers or whatever, but the others aspects they have to interact with and work alongside. They'd be trying to make a VR+flatscreen FPS PvP in a vehicular proc gen open world. There are a ton of technical and design bases to cover there. ("Can we see that VR guy is shooting to his left with his hand? No we can't, dammit now we need IK limbs and that's a resource hog and takes lots of refining not to look janky. What's that, the proc gen cycles are mopping up the CPU but we need more headroom for the AI to track hand thrown grenades? Well god damn. And now you're telling me I can't use teleport to avoid nausea because the flatscreens don't like playing against it and it looks totally unfitting? Well we're going to have to get those left handed options in so the controller-relative guys can still run and gun..." etc etc etc)

NMS is like the only real precedent, covering most of the bases (minus PvP, and with their character tech already well established previously). Rec Room is the only game to do VR+flatscreen PvP, and that's in tiny cartoony arenas.

New ground like that for a company, and an industry, means R&D. A lotta R&D.

That's the short story