Tritium Mining in the black

[StarLord55]

We will never explore the entire galaxy no matter how hard we try, not even close. So that point is mute.

Every game considers the balance of real time and rewards, because its a game.

I could leave it in the black and return later, thats a fair point. People would probably just decomission it instead if they think they won't see their carrier again on the order of months.

 

[Darth Ender]

And my point was that it still is a huge investment, even with a mechanism to process Tritium.

Leave exploration those who have time to explore? That is a very lame dismissal, lets stick with constructive feedback. I have time to explore, and I have explored plenty without an FC. I want to explore with an FC now, as do many other commanders. Exploration, although fairly bare bones, is one of the biggest things that sets ED apart from others with its 1:1 scale.

Just because there is a scoop does not mean the novelty is ruined, as I've explained. I believe there is a balance, but a compromise needs to be made.

You're arguing time issues but trying to offer scooping to take roughly the same time. So what you want is for the carrier to be effectively free to travel since you as a player can accomplish that by doing nothing interactive.

That is bad gameplay. It's a worse option than mining.

 

[Nutter]

Ur post made me think about it, but:
Non of these activities require carrier. Just like exploring without carrier obviously dont require one.
To make it accure id change ur post to:

PvP - before you fly ur m destroyer into CZ, mine 180 tons of Fuel
Bounty - before you storm pirate bay with carrier with dozen of bounty hunter ships mine 180 tons of Fuel
Missions - before you set up ur base for mission (nlike source and return) mine 180 tons of Fuel ....
Passengers - before you take 2000 passenger to ur station sized beluga, mine 180 tons of Fuel
Trade - before you jump across the bubble to selling station after filling fc with 24000 tons of good, mine 180 tons of Fuel

Although for all these above u can also buy trit and get over with, but for exploration its not that bad- u can buy it as well in the bubble and never mine UNLESS u want to travel more than 35K Ly before reaching point of no return

My point was with a carrier

Carrier owners who PvP for example

Activities without a carrier would be a pointless conversation

 

[Nutter]

You're arguing time issues but trying to offer scooping to take roughly the same time. So what you want is for the carrier to be effectively free to travel since you as a player can accomplish that by doing nothing interactive.

That is bad gameplay. It's a worse option than mining.

Anyone else banging their head against a wall?

Explorers want to explore, hence scoop. If I got no income from exploring but my carrier scooped fuel I'd be fine with that. If we are mining we are not exploring.

 

[StarLord55]

You're arguing time issues but trying to offer scooping to take roughly the same time. So what you want is for the carrier to be effectively free to travel since you as a player can accomplish that by doing nothing interactive.

That is bad gameplay. It's a worse option than mining.

Thats not true. What I'm saying I would like to divert more of that time to exploring in my Clipper or whatever versus mining, the whole point of the expedition. You could sit idley waiting to refuel, that is poor gameplay, but its your choice.

Forcing the mining mechanic does not equal good gameplay just because it gives you something to do. I already have something to do - explore.

Its not free either because im paying the upfront cost of the equipment, the upkeep and extra weight. Its a fair trade off.

 

[StarLord55]

Anyone else banging their head against a wall?

Explorers want to explore, hence scoop. If I got no income from exploring but my carrier scooped fuel I'd be fine with that. If we are mining we are not exploring.

Exactly.

The point is not sit idely for free fuel. The point is to explore more.

 

[CNC drill press]

It's not a big step out of the way, but the three hours of mining is still three hours diverted from exploring via small ship. This would balance it such that I spend 2 of those hours exploring and one hour mining.

Yes it would take longer to process, thats the point that keeps things balanced. Again, for the fourth or fifth time, its not about speed but choice.

Not sure if u should that argument -

My point was with a carrier

Carrier owners who PvP for example

Activities without a carrier would be a pointless conversation

U are right, its just post felt like u compared activities without carrier to exploration with carrier. But ok, lets say it was simple misunderstanding - But to use carrier in pvp (dropping lazerboad squad to desired location), u also need to mine tritium. You can buy it, sure but i can also buy it when exploring. lIke i said - u can do 35kly to centre of galaxy and return without running out of fuel.

Well indeed u will be missing few thousands ly if u want to go from colonia to beagle point and return, still u can move ur station up to 30kly from civilisation. Its not that bad isnt it? Actually if they would make explorer anchorage selling tritium then almost while galaxy would be reachable by fc

 

[Darth Ender]

You want the carrier to scoop? It isn't in sc so it can't. If you are scooping then you aren't exploring, you're sitting doing nothing. If you are quickly scooping and the carrier spends time refining tritium from that, then you are effectively making it free because it involves nearly no player interaction.

That's all worse than mining for a couple hours to go 1500 ly.

 

[StarLord55]

You want the carrier to scoop? It isn't in sc so it can't. If you are scooping then you aren't exploring, you're sitting doing nothing. If you are quickly scooping and the carrier spends time refining tritium from that, then you are effectively making it free because it involves nearly no player interaction.

That's all worse than mining for a couple hours to go 1500 ly.

The idea is that the FC will scoop passively since it is persistent and it automatically orbits the body its stationed at. So you can explore and scoop at the same time. The scoop rate would be low enough that it would pale in comparison to the gains of mining, thus still making mining important.

I think we are talking im circles here, thats the problem with these forums. I've made my case and I think I've been very clear. This thread is not very long, read my other posts, we keep circling back to the same arguments.

 

[StarLord55]

The idea is that the FC will scoop passively since it is persistent and it automatically orbits the body its stationed at. So you can explore and scoop at the same time. The scoop rate would be low enough that it would pale in comparison to the gains of mining, thus still making mining important.

I think we are talking im circles here, thats the problem with these forums. I've made my case and I think I've been very clear. This thread is not very long, read my other posts, we keep circling back to the same arguments.

It does not have to be scooping either. If you have a better idea, I'm all ears.

Dismissing the argument is not constructive because I feel there are many commanders who feel the same as me.

 

[Darth Ender]

Instead of turning refueling into something that is obviously free for your particular role, how about a suggestion that fits with your role without being an obvious copout.

There could be uss's that you need to scan in your fss that appear sporadically around planets with ice rings in deep space. They're rare but perhaps 1 in 25-50 ringed world's will have these signal sources near them. Inside these sources are concentrated tritium ores. You can then collect them for roughly 50 tons of tritium.

That option fits with exploration without making refueling free.

The balance could be tweaked but I'm sure the average ice rings per 500 ly worth of scanning is well in excess of a couple hundred. You should easily come across enough to refuel the 1-2 hundred tons per jump required for topping off after each jump without taking any exploration time away since investigating signals is part of exploration.

 

[CNC drill press]

The idea is that the FC will scoop passively since it is persistent and it automatically orbits the body its stationed at. So you can explore and scoop at the same time. The scoop rate would be low enough that it would pale in comparison to the gains of mining, thus still making mining important.

I think we are talking im circles here, thats the problem with these forums. I've made my case and I think I've been very clear. This thread is not very long, read my other posts, we keep circling back to the same arguments.

I muat admin i havent read whole thread, but what are u saying sounds good. But that would have to be really slow process, that would encourage explorer to scout big portion of bubble around carrier. Still that wouldnt mean game over once u run out of trit.

 

[StarLord55]

Instead of turning refueling into something that is obviously free for your particular role, how about a suggestion that fits with your role without being an obvious copout.

There could be uss's that you need to scan in your fss that appear sporadically around planets with ice rings in deep space. They're rare but perhaps 1 in 25-50 ringed world's will have these signal sources near them. Inside these sources are concentrated tritium ores. You can then collect them for roughly 50 tons of tritium.

That option fits with exploration without making refueling free.

The balance could be tweaked but I'm sure the average ice rings per 500 ly worth of scanning is well in excess of a couple hundred. You should easily come across enough to refuel the 1-2 hundred tons per jump required for topping off after each jump without taking any exploration time away since investigating signals is part of exploration.

My intent is not to "copout" with free fuel, thats just the best solution thats come to mind so far. I am open to suggestion, but you're reply still suggests that the solution is mining.

I posted in another thread suggesting that it would be great if the FC can hover directly over the ring and you can mark whole asteroids for the FC to tractor, consume amd process while you continue marking more asteroids for consumption. This is obviously not easily implimemted, but it would be a form of mining and it would be fun and different.

So then I doubled back to a suggestion thats more realistic.

 

[yianniv]

the real question is why taking out of the equation the only part of the exploration that requires some skill and it is the most basic expectation when you are in the middle of nothing

I think you are confused. Mining has nothing to do with exploration. I would support some other way of fueling, either passive slow by leaving your FC orbiting a suitable star/body, or active, by using a new kind of scooping module that only fills the fuel depot and cannot be used to sell that fuel. What would your problem be if I play the game this way? How would it affect or offend your principles?

Why do some people have to enforce their way of playing and preferences to the rest? If these new methods are available, feel free not to use them.
Don't you feel better when you have choice over which method you'll use? I do.

Mining will be FD's proposed solution to the end of wars and world hunger, as it goes. Or, even better, we'll find some magic cure for the current diseases in one asteroid. Ok, I get it, they enhanced mining methods and they're proud of it, but they don't have to push it as the solution to everything.

 

[BDelacroix]

Casually mining I collect about 100t an hour. Could do more if I grabbed a second collector controller. The bigger numbers come from the subsurface mining.

In my case, I do have a little help from my friends but we are all gathering our own set and not mass mining.

100 is 10% of a tank, so its not terribly bad.

I use a krait 2.

 

[Darth Ender]

Using your fss to find concentrated tritium isn't mining. Just because you need to use a cargo scoop to pick something up doesn't mean you are patrolling rocks and mining them.

All explorers should have basic mining gear and the ability to synth limpets anyway in case someone crazy is found. In my suggestion you don't even need to beam anything. Just do what you do when exploring... Use your fss "skills" and find the uss's with these caches. Then travel to them and pick them up.


All things you do normally when exploring. So you aren't being forced against your fragile will to dirty yourself with doing anything exploring wouldn't normally involve. And it still forces you to be part of the process actively.

 

[StarLord55]

Using your fss to find concentrated tritium isn't mining. Just because you need to use a cargo scoop to pick something up doesn't mean you are patrolling rocks and mining them.

All explorers should have basic mining gear and the ability to synth limpets anyway in case someone crazy is found. In my suggestion you don't even need to beam anything. Just do what you do when exploring... Use your fss "skills" and find the uss's with these caches. Then travel to them and pick them up.


All things you do normally when exploring. So you aren't being forced against your fragile will to dirty yourself with doing anything exploring wouldn't normally involve. And it still forces you to be part of the process actively.

Thats a fair point, I may have been hasty in my judgement. If these concentrated Tritium deposits you speak of cut the required mining time to a reasonable level, then I can be on board with that.

I still like the idea of a slow scoop better though.

 

[Nutter]

But to use carrier in pvp (dropping lazerboad squad to desired location), u also need to mine tritium. You can buy it, sure but i can also buy it when exploring.

A PvP player with a carrier does not need to mine fuel, in fact, they would have to be the most stupid person alive. You would buy it for 4k a ton from a station

Explorers cannot buy fuel in the black - Fact

Saying something false does not make a base for discussion.

 

[Darth Ender]

In terms of mining vs uss caches... This is how it differs.

1. You never find anything of explorative value inside rings which is where you would have to go to inside to mine tritium currently.

2. Mining involves a lot of time not gathering anything because you are looking for rocks you do need.

3. It requires refinery and collector controllers since you need a lot of input items to equal 1 output.

4. Uss caches would be already refined units. 1 in = 1 out

5. You have to discover caches using exploration mechanics

6. You only need to collect them... But they are rare so you have to be diligent in exploring systems to not miss them

And you can always fall back on mining if you do end up finding a triple overlap and don't want to continue exploring the area to hopefully find a cache.

7. Caches only exist in pristine systems with planets with ice rings and follow the rng nature of uss's .

Uss's should always be something you look for when exploring just like all other signals in your fss. Traveling to interesting signals to map is also expected exploration activity. This idea takes nothing away from exploration activity while giving you a way to utilize exploration activity to fuel the carrier.


That would mean, mining, trade, and exploration have a way to fuel the carrier. I'd say combat has the short end. But maybe there are tritium transports you can attack in the game... Not sure.

 

[Gpaolo]

Why do some people have to enforce their way of playing and preferences to the rest?

Well, say it to the author of the post I'm not enforcing anything, I'm fine with things as they are now
Mining becomes part of the exploration the moment you need to refuel your FC (which is not the ship you use to explore) and mining is the only way to get it done.
Same way that combat is part of becoming an explorer because you need the materials for the engineers, even if you don't like combat.

The question at this point is, why the hell do you need a FC if the only thing you are interested is flying from a star to another? Just keep doing as you have done until now and stop complaining about one of the few sensible dynamics of the game.