Tritium Mining in the black

[Susanna]

How much tritium was in cargo bay after reaching beagle point?

If you use the Spansh FC Router you'll see you'll run out of fuel about 2/3rd of the way there ... Hence the estimate of 26,500t of Trit to refuel for the return leg...

Unless some soul spends their life out there mining Trit for the hardy souls who wish to take their FCs out there!

 

[Susanna]

Mining in the black is pure
I came here to the forum right now to highlight how bad it is but since there is already a thread I will reply here:
After long research I've finally found a system with 2 planets with icy rings: a gas giant and an ice world.

The Gas Giant got 1 hot spot of bromelite and 1 hotspot of grandidierite. No tritium, nothing else.
The Ice Planets got ZERO hotspots, nothing, nisba, nada de nada!!

How can an explorer refuel his carrier out of the bubble Frontier???

ZERO HOTPOTS:
View attachment 177894

You nailed it! Its bloody hard work!

 

[Nutter]

Imagine if you had to mine for all the other activities

PvP - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel
Bounty - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel
Missions - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel ....
Passengers - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel
Trade - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel

Would be a different conversation then

 

[StarLord55]

Exploring by itself is a pointless, skilless, taskless, time-limit-less, nonsense activity that only tests how long you can stay awake after doing the same thing over and over again to "explore" one functionally identical system after another that changes nothing and offers nothing new to the game.

Having to actually do different things while "exploring" can only improve it and begin to provide some kind of justification for getting paid to do it at all. Unless of course fdev decides to introduce hazardous environments and actually makes space dangerous. Which they wont.

every role should require a mixed set of activities because they certainly dont require any kind of skill on their own. At least mixing them requires compromising min-max tendencies. Even if it takes you twice as long (it wont, mining a few hundred tons of carrier fuel doesn't take more than a few hours) now to explore because you have to mine or do combat or whatever, then so what? exploration isn't a race. How long it takes you to do it doesn't matter. If your purpose is the zen of how little you do while doing it, then you still got all of that ..just with less absolute distance put between you and your starting location.

As I've stated several times already, of course its not a race. Thats not the point of a scoop. Read my past few posts.

Im not saying we should eliminate mining either because you highlight a great point. Roles should involve a mixed set of activities to keep things interesting.

Say im exploring, and I've had enough for now. Rather than putting the conteoller down for the next couple hours, wasting my game time, I can mine to get the extra bit I need to complete a jump. Just because you have a scoop does not remove the need for mining from time to time. You just have a choice.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

I don't know, mining makes perfect sense to me.
Actually, I would introduce also a weekly use of water, oxygen and food, plus consumption of whatever fuel for FC energy, plus need of spare materials for limpets, repairs, ammo, ship fuel, etc.
In other words, all those things that you assume are automatically restocked by "the system" in the bubble and that you can't get when you are isolated.
Things like food could be either bought in sufficient quantity or synthesized from components you can mine, same for other things.
Unfortunately mining is the only means in the game to obtain resources from the environment (fuel scoop excluded), so unless the gameplay is radically changed, I can't see any other way.

Wouldn’t a good old fashioned time sink fit the bill? You gather hydrogen and then you convert it to Tritium at a rate that doesn’t step on the toes of mining,I’m happy to not be able to move for extended periods of time because I can occupy myself with exploration.

 

[Darth Ender]

Imagine if you had to mine for all the other activities

PvP - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel

You do for engineers .. pvp requires doing all activities. pvp requires engineering as a prep.

Bounty - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel

picking up the goods from your kills is the same activity as mining. Not doing it is like only half bounty hunting. You also scan wakes and what not while doing it as well..

Missions - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel ....

There are missions that request you mine. Also trade, also kill. Do you not know what missions are?

Passengers - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel

Umm, passenger transport is just basically "exploration" ...but you do get pirate activity sometimes. So combat.

Trade - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel

Combat occurs fairly regularly for traders. As it does for miners.

Would be a different conversation then

Yea, what a weird thing to have to do something other than the one activity ...nothing else does that in the game. . so weird.

 

[StarLord55]

Wouldn’t a good old fashioned time sink fit the bill? You gather hydrogen and then you convert it to Tritium at a rate that doesn’t step on the toes of mining,I’m happy to not be able to move for extended periods of time because I can occupy myself with exploration.

Exactly this. Everyone is happy this way. Those who insist on mining can carry on, and there is still a great benefit to doing so. But if you really wanted to, you can stay put and process some while you're exploring a nearby nebula. Why does it have to be mined??

 

[OldManKnott]

How on earth do you get numbers that high? Even with the triple Borann hotspot I would max out at about 130 every 47 minutes (taking out travel time). I just tested a single Tritium Hotspot using pure laser mining (going to try sub-surface next) and after 1 hour I got 105 Tritium (which I thought wasn't all that bad). I didn't take enough Limpets (90 only), and so based on my usage, I would fill up the entire cargo hold with limpets.

I do have some rules that I think may be the cause, for example I only mine those asteroids with 20% or higher yields, though with single hot-spots I might try lowering that down to 15% to see if I do any better.

Still I'm starting to think that some miners have some special technique with laser mining that I don't know about that will vastly improve mining efficiency.

I only target still or very slow moving asteroids, surface mining only, 3 lasers and 5 collectors. 20% and over only.
Those big fast moving asteroids throw chunks all over the place. I can fully mine a still asteroid in a quarter of the time it takes to do a big fast one, for me that's the key.

 

[Darth Ender]

Wouldn’t a good old fashioned time sink fit the bill? You gather hydrogen and then you convert it to Tritium at a rate that doesn’t step on the toes of mining,I’m happy to not be able to move for extended periods of time because I can occupy myself with exploration.

If you're exploring, you're going to the planets anyway. Mining isn't a big step out of your way. How long do you think it should take you to scoop hydrogen to acquire radioactive hydrogen (tritium)? You dont simply convert it, that's not how refining works in the game for anything. You could filter hydrogen (refine) you scoop to acquire tritium theoretically, but you'd have to scoop for sooooooo much longer since tritium is not a high percent of the hydrogen you scoop. You could vary that per star type maybe. But still, you're looking at a much longer time sitting still because even if your fuel scoop is massive, the refinery's going to be a fixed size that wont be able to keep up likely. Further limiting speed. So are you arguing that sitting still and doing nothing (scooping) is better gameplay than mining?

Forcing you to go mining if you bring a carrier along is better gameplay than sitting still around a star and doing nothing. Again, this is all optional for exploration. You dont need a carrier to explore. This has nothing to do with harming the role of exploration. This is a compromise you make by having the convenience of a carrier.

 

[CNC drill press]

Imagine if you had to mine for all the other activities

PvP - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel
Bounty - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel
Missions - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel ....
Passengers - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel
Trade - before you next activity mine 180 tons of Fuel

Would be a different conversation then

Ur post made me think about it, but:
Non of these activities require carrier. Just like exploring without carrier obviously dont require one.
To make it accure id change ur post to:

PvP - before you fly ur m destroyer into CZ, mine 180 tons of Fuel
Bounty - before you storm pirate bay with carrier with dozen of bounty hunter ships mine 180 tons of Fuel
Missions - before you set up ur base for mission (nlike source and return) mine 180 tons of Fuel ....
Passengers - before you take 2000 passenger to ur station sized beluga, mine 180 tons of Fuel
Trade - before you jump across the bubble to selling station after filling fc with 24000 tons of good, mine 180 tons of Fuel

Although for all these above u can also buy trit and get over with, but for exploration its not that bad- u can buy it as well in the bubble and never mine UNLESS u want to travel more than 35K Ly before reaching point of no return

 

[CNC drill press]

I only target still or very slow moving asteroids, surface mining only, 3 lasers and 5 collectors. 20% and over only.
Those big fast moving asteroids throw chunks all over the place. I can fully mine a still asteroid in a quarter of the time it takes to do a big fast one, for me that's the key.

1)position urself in axis of roid rotation
2) literaly touch roid with ur bumper. Limpets efficiency goes through the roof

 

[StarLord55]

If you're exploring, you're going to the planets anyway. Mining isn't a big step out of your way. How long do you think it should take you to scoop hydrogen to acquire radioactive hydrogen (tritium)? You dont simply convert it, that's not how refining works in the game for anything. You could filter hydrogen (refine) you scoop to acquire tritium theoretically, but you'd have to scoop for sooooooo much longer since tritium is not a high percent of the hydrogen you scoop. You could vary that per star type maybe. But still, you're looking at a much longer time sitting still because even if your fuel scoop is massive, the refinery's going to be a fixed size that wont be able to keep up likely. Further limiting speed. So are you arguing that sitting still and doing nothing (scooping) is better gameplay than mining?

Forcing you to go mining if you bring a carrier along is better gameplay than sitting still around a star and doing nothing. Again, this is all optional for exploration. You dont need a carrier to explore. This has nothing to do with harming the role of exploration. This is a compromise you make by having the convenience of a carrier.

It's not a big step out of the way, but the three hours of mining is still three hours diverted from exploring via small ship. This would balance it such that I spend 2 of those hours exploring and one hour mining.

Yes it would take longer to process, thats the point that keeps things balanced. Again, for the fourth or fifth time, its not about speed but choice.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

If you're exploring, you're going to the planets anyway. Mining isn't a big step out of your way. How long do you think it should take you to scoop hydrogen to acquire radioactive hydrogen (tritium)? You dont simply convert it, that's not how refining works in the game for anything. You could filter hydrogen (refine) you scoop to acquire tritium theoretically, but you'd have to scoop for sooooooo much longer since tritium is not a high percent of the hydrogen you scoop. You could vary that per star type maybe. But still, you're looking at a much longer time sitting still because even if your fuel scoop is massive, the refinery's going to be a fixed size that wont be able to keep up likely. Further limiting speed. So are you arguing that sitting still and doing nothing (scooping) is better gameplay than mining?

Forcing you to go mining if you bring a carrier along is better gameplay than sitting still around a star and doing nothing. Again, this is all optional for exploration. You dont need a carrier to explore. This has nothing to do with harming the role of exploration. This is a compromise you make by having the convenience of a carrier.

About 4 weeks to gather 25000t seems about the max time I’d be happy with.
That’s working out at about 890t a day,not exactly a game breaking amount and if you’re empty and want to push on you’re going to need to mine.

 

[StarLord55]

About 4 weeks to gather 25000t seems about the max time I’d be happy with.
That’s working out at about 890t a day,not exactly a game breaking amount and if you’re empty and want to push on you’re going to need to mine.

I actually disagree with this. 890T per day is a lot of fuel, roughly 3 free jumps per day for a fully loaded carrier.

I think 250T per day would be an acceptible upper limit, maybe even less. I do believe in protecting the novelty of the carrier. We are transporting many ships at once, refueling 3+ jumps per day would be too easy.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

I actually disagree with this. 890T per day is a lot of fuel, roughly 3 free jumps per day for a fully loaded carrier.

I think 250T per day would be an acceptible upper limit, maybe even less. I do believe in protecting the novelty of the carrier. We are transporting many ships at once, refueling 3+ jumps per day would be too easy.

It would be over a 24 hour period of inactivity sat next to the correct star type,so normal use you get roughly 1 - 2 free at the beginning of every session.

 

[StarLord55]

It would be over a 24 hour period of inactivity sat next to the correct star type,so normal use you get roughly 1 - 2 free at the beginning of every session.

I still think thats too high. I think the other camp is justified in saying that would be too much. If you are traveling a lean carrier for jump efficiency, then thats all the fuel you will want anyway which greatly detracts from the benefit of mining.

We need to find a balance that satisfies both parties.

 

[Darth Ender]

It's not a big step out of the way, but the three hours of mining is still three hours diverted from exploring via small ship. This would balance it such that I spend 2 of those hours exploring and one hour mining.

Yes it would take longer to process, thats the point that keeps things balanced. Again, for the fourth or fifth time, its not about speed but choice.

3 hours would be mining for at least 1500ly worth of jumps. That's days worth of stars to explore... With only 3 hours of mining.

Your choice was to bring a carrier to make exploring safer and easier. 3 hours for days of exploring is not a bad cost.

 

[StarLord55]

3 hours would be mining for at least 1500ly worth of jumps. That's days worth of stars to explore... With only 3 hours of mining.

Your choice was to bring a carrier to make exploring safer and easier. 3 hours for days of exploring is not a bad cost.

I understand its a commitment and a trade off for the conveinience of having your facilities. If you are in the black, its going to take wayyyyy longer to get back to the bubble, with or without the scoop, so your deeply committed either way.

Real life happens, and if at some point on your journey you decide you want to get back, you are then required to mine. For a great many people, sitting down knowing the grind that is ahead of them to return will likely result in just turning the game off, especially if you only have a handful of hours to play a week. With a slow scoop you could chip away at it over time without grinding the rings. It would still be very slow.

If you are inclined to get to your destination quickly, you will still need to mine.

 

[Darth Ender]

I understand its a commitment and a trade off for the conveinience of having your facilities. If you are in the black, its going to take wayyyyy longer to get back to the bubble, with or without the scoop, so your deeply committed either way.

Real life happens, and if at some point on your journey you decide you want to get back, you are then required to mine. For a great many people, sitting down knowing the grind that is ahead of them to return will likely result in just turning the game off, especially if you only have a handful of hours to play a week. With a slow scoop you could chip away at it over time without grinding the rings. It would still be very slow.

If you are inclined to get to your destination quickly, you will still need to mine.

You could just leave the carrier behind if you need to get somewhere quickly. It'll be there when you have time.

Exploring in the black was always supposed to be a huge investment... Otherwise it all would have been explored already. Complaining about life or tradeoffs or time is to be complaining about the role itself... In which case, don't explore. Do something else closer or inside the bubble or without the carrier..

Leave exploration for those who can invest the time to explore.

 

[StarLord55]

You could just leave the carrier behind if you need to get somewhere quickly. It'll be there when you have time.

Exploring in the black was always supposed to be a huge investment... Otherwise it all would have been explored already. Complaining about life or tradeoffs or time is to be complaining about the role itself... In which case, don't explore. Do something else closer or inside the bubble or without the carrier..

Leave exploration for those who can invest the time to explore.

And my point was that it still is a huge investment, even with a mechanism to process Tritium.

Leave exploration those who have time to explore? That is a very lame dismissal, lets stick with constructive feedback. I have time to explore, and I have explored plenty without an FC. I want to explore with an FC now, as do many other commanders. Exploration, although fairly bare bones, is one of the biggest things that sets ED apart from others with its 1:1 scale.

Just because there is a scoop does not mean the novelty is ruined, as I've explained. I believe there is a balance, but a compromise needs to be made.