PvP pve in open idea

[Stelar 7]

Holy crap. You know, in the 600hrs I have on PC so far, I've gone to Deciat once to gank and was there for maybe two hours. You guys are so delusional about ganking it's breath taking.

Because all gakers are you?

Couple things

1. 600 hours isn't much.
2. Not all people are you
3. You go to an engineer, in open at the right time of day there is a very high chance of getting attacked.
4. Elite let's us choose our engagement with each other, that's a good thing.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

In my opinion the best way to deal with it would be to stop making PvP-PvE contact so one sided. If you want to mine then you want to mine as efficiently as possible. In Open though, you need to compromise to account for hostile CMDRs. But compromises affect efficiency, and you're also not going to beat someone at PvP in a hybrid ship, you're only really looking to escape, not dish damage back. So then someone being practical about it looks at it like this "I can either do my stuff efficiently, without worry about other players, and play in PG/solo, or i make a compromise in my loadout, for less efficiency, play in open, with a chance that i'll get attacked, and if attacked, i might escape or i might lose hours of effort to someone who is risking nothing".

That last part is one of the most interesting as well. The attacker really risks nothing. If they really mess up, they might lose their ship (for example, they are so focused on their target they don't notice another player coming up behind them).

One sided PvP, both in terms of balance and risk, for most people is not interesting. Who is interested in this sort of PvP? Griefers, gankers, and people who suck at PvP against decent opponents but want to kill people to stroke their egos.

Therefore, in my opinion, the only way to address this is to do balancing which results in the ability of ships to be just as dangerous when doing PvE as they are when doing PvP without impacting their efficiency doing those activities. That would add balance to the situation and provide risk to the attacker.

Unfortunately, i don't think this is possible to do in ED, at least not without making such changes it probably wouldn't please anyone.

Its quite similar in GTA. You get a mission to deliver stuff in a postal van (for example), which is of course unarmed and slow... it literally crawls going up hills. The game alerts everyone in the lobby you are doing this. Death means you lose it all. All around the lobby are usually people flying broomsticks (Opressor Mk2, a flying bike, fast, agile, has countermeasures, fires homing missiles) just looking for people to kill. In most public lobbies you won't stand a chance of making a delivery unless all the "PvPers" are busy. But if one takes notice, you're dead. You're on a time limit, you can't mess around, those post-op vans are slow. Getting out of your van to fight back leaves it vulnerable to attack, if the van is destroyed, mission over.

Of course, you know what the attackers say? Things like Git Gud and The game allows it and don't play in public lobbies then! (those missions can only be done in public lobbies, its like the idea that open only proponents like to push).

What do a lot of people do, included those self-styled PvPers? They force solo public lobbies, through firewall hijinks, "testing NAT type", or suspending process, all of which push you into a solo public lobby as the game thinks you are lagging out and doesn't want you to affect other players (by the way, GTA also uses P2P networking). Another method people use is make groups where they ensure the whole lobby is filled with friendlies, others who are grinding, so griefers/gankers are less likely to get in.

So, anyone who seriously wants money, and not the risk or challenge, simply ensures they don't get matched with those looking for PvP. Result, public lobbies are generally full of people flying around on broomsticks killing each other. Its just crazy. I logged in yesterday and before i finished loading i got a message that my personal vehicle had been destroyed. That's how crazy it is as time.

In short, you can't have a mix of PvE and PvP play going on and being fun for all unless everyone is on equal terms with equal risk for all (of course, skill should still be a factor, the only real significant factor).

 

[Robert Maynard]

PvP needs to be made more viable in Elite.

I propose a few things:

Resolve the network code to stop hard combat logging.

Change Open play so it affects the BGS more, say like a +20% modifier over Private Group and Solo. This will drive people to play in Open more. As a counter, allow players to hire NPC wingmen to defend themselves.

Increase the (interdicting ability) threat of NPC pirates in the more lawless systems, making it less worth playing in PG or Solo.

Make smuggling/black market gameplay more profitable, and give carriers the option to buy black market goods, encouraging PvP piracy.

Grant better rewards for Powerplay across all the major factions, and again, make it +20% effective in Open play.

Increase the bounty penalty for player criminality significantly.

Introduce some kind of rank for killing players specifically.

Introducing any bonus for playing in Open would very likely lead to block lists getting much longer....

.... and I doubt that introducing a rank for PKing would encourage the less PvP inclined player to play in Open at all.

Then there's the fact that Powerplay is the only feature that has been considered suitable for either Open only or an Open play bonus.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

What some find "spicy", others find "bland and uninteresting".

What are you saying Robert? Does the game have to be a certain way that only one particular group of people can enjoy it. Just as you enjoy exploration in solo, or whatever it is you do, I enjoy PvP combat and being hunted by bounty hunters. So why do you come into these threads to advocate for us not getting any content?

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Newbs in deciat, explorers in paper ships, traders, whats the difference? No challenge while spear giving u actual pvp.

As for deciat and "us" being delusional (just searched deciat in dangerous disscusion):

Pirate in Deciat System.

A PVP pirate just killed me in the Deciat system (Near the Carson Hub). If there's anyone nearby willing to help and wing up, please DM CMDR 'MartinEdition'.

forums.frontier.co.uk

Deciat Alert

PSA: Warning. There are unshielded Asp Explorers in Deciat. Repeat, unshielded Asp Explorers in Deciat. I don't know if it's a show of faith in the PS4 community, an indication that many console users don't bother with the forums/reddit/etc. or just ballsy explorers. But there they are, out...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Deciat gankers

To all the Deciat gankers out there, I am relatively new to this game and I totally understand that ED has all those roles players can choose to play as part of the immersion, but if you think that killing an unarmed (I had zero hard points), low level ship that just made a long trip all the...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Deciat in open is pretty fun

I have a lot of fun since I based myself in Deciat (Garay Terminal). People are talkative and there are a lot of interactions. I have been ganked and that's less fun but often when I get interdicted, it's someone who only wants to talk. Do you have the same experience as me around here ?

forums.frontier.co.uk

Escape from Deciat (Cutter & Cutter vs evil Vette)

We're getting close, Herlev, almost there. Hammers, Packhounds, [distraction], Torps, Boom! You escaped us again, GRRR

forums.frontier.co.uk

Outlaws posing as Enforcers while destroying innocent ships in Deciat (again)

Attention CMDRs! It has come to SPEAR's attention that bands of criminals are once again roaming in the system of Deciat, home to the respected member of the Engineer community Felicity Farseer. These cowardly agents of chaos are attacking innocents pilots going about their engineering business...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Protecting Deciat: SPEAR vs. The Code and al.

Wings of SPEAR forces fighting against wings of pirates from CODE and sympathizers in Deciat. Merry Xmas and may 2020 bring more moments like these.

forums.frontier.co.uk

Outlaws posing as Enforcers while destroying innocent ships in Deciat

Attention CMDRs! It has come to SPEAR's attention that bands of criminals are roaming in the system of Deciat, home to the respected member of the Engineer community Felicity Farseer. These outlaws are attacking innocents pilots going about their engineering business while at the same time...

forums.frontier.co.uk

PvP - Harassing Deciat Gankers

My alt account I’ve decided to only raise my combat rank by PvP. I rarely kill anyone so I’m still only ranked mostly harmless. Source: https://youtu.be/1jnG0FMAPao

forums.frontier.co.uk

I went to deicat just few times, I went Martuuk Way, but i saw total mayhem once or twice.

Spear fly with known cheaters, use unfair tactics and high wake from fights after only losing a ring off their shields. Other than the cheating I have no problem with them using unfair, in-game tactics but I'm not gonna fight them if they want to play that way.

 

[Robert Maynard]

What are you saying Robert?

That not all players want to play the same way.

Does the game have to be a certain way that only one particular group of people can enjoy it.

Of course not. Neither does existing content require to be removed from players who choose not to play in Open.

Just as you enjoy exploration in solo, or whatever it is you do, I enjoy PvP combat and being hunted by bounty hunters.

Which is possible in the game at present.

So why do you come into these threads to advocate for us not getting any content?

Which new content is being proposed (that is not already shared by all players in all game modes)?

 

[Misty_Dark]

What are you saying Robert? Does the game have to be a certain way that only one particular group of people can enjoy it. Just as you enjoy exploration in solo, or whatever it is you do, I enjoy PvP combat and being hunted by bounty hunters. So why do you come into these threads to advocate for us not getting any content?

well, that was not what he said,


Just as you do not want to have your gameplay option decided by solo explorers, telling you how to play the game, the explorers do not want other to tell them how to play the game, and we can on with all the other player groups, and find that just about every player group do not like a totally different player group to tell them how to play the game....

so if a suggestion made to enhance the game play for a specific group, would directly have a negative effect on other player groups, then of course they have their full rights to complain about it, and other player groups have the right to point this out.

One of the best designs FDev did, was to give each and every player the option to decide how they want to play the game, without anybody being able to force them to play in a specific way or game mode.

 

[Crumly]

Anyone who thinks the game needs changes, other than possibly a PVP flag is delusional. It literally is not going to happen, all your ideas, which mostly suck, are a waste of time. The typical players would prefer to see others in game sometimes, but have no interest in PVP. Reading "pvper" posts is just dumb in this thread. I remember when I was 15 playing UO and thought I was a " pvper" because I'd run up to bluebies who had no idea what to do and attack them. It's the exact same as the pvp that happens in Open in ED.

All I play is PVP games and a bit of ED. I play league of legends or Mordhau/Chivalry. I play ED couple times a weeks if that. If I want to PVP in ED, I would play CQC. That literally is PVP in this game. Just like WOW, 99.99% of PVP was in instanced PVP maps. Open world PVP in ED is straight garbage, namely because there is zero balance and there is zero chance of achieving it, and because players are not ready for PVP.

 

[Crumly]

What are you saying Robert? Does the game have to be a certain way that only one particular group of people can enjoy it. Just as you enjoy exploration in solo, or whatever it is you do, I enjoy PvP combat and being hunted by bounty hunters. So why do you come into these threads to advocate for us not getting any content?

When you say " one particular group of people"
What you really mean is "the game's target audience".
Plain and simple, and try to argue, I need a ing laugh, the gameplay you desire is a fringe that doesn't happen because the game wasn't designed that way. You want to be bounty hunted? Play a PVP game hahaha. ED is the game I play when I want to basically do nothing and just relax for a bit before bed.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

No, all the best PvE zones were PvP enabled. They weren't 'PvP zones', they were PvE zones competed over and accessible to all races. And it was amazing (it went Pay2Win and died, or id still be there tbh)

It's not a PvE zone when it's a PvP zone.

 

[Dragsham]

Actually there is a way to have just open play. And I know exactly what I'm going to do. If any pvpers wanna partake in this long term venture forcing them out into the open. Pm me

 

[Stelar 7]

All PvP content ideas are to give gankers more targets? ROFL stop it.

I've pushed the idea for putting CQC in the game where you queue by landing on a fleet carrier, are able to use your own ships and giving rewards to the winning team.
Explain to me how thats giving gankers more target or how it takes anything away from the solo crowd.



The arguments against PvP content that come from the solo community are so delusional it's laughable. This is why we can't have nice things.

Nice but read again what I said closely....

"The people who want to be in open and fighting are already there. All these "pvp improvment" ideas are reducible to drive people who don't want to pvp into a pvp area so people who do want pvp can have more targets...."

Since I didn't say it's to give gankers more targets, I trust you will understand I'm not going to defend your strawman.

Does your idea seek to get people who aren't doing pvp into pvp? Sure does.

Next.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Does your idea seek to get people who aren't doing pvp into pvp? Sure does.

Explain how it does. It just enjoyable content for pvpers. And what's your problem with content to get more people interested in pvp?

 

[Just Paul]

I can see what you are trying to do there, and I appreciate you trying to put some creative thinking into it, and while that might have worked up until the engineers were introduced, now the engineering genie is out of the bottle and stronger than before, that's not going to work because of the massive disparity between a PvP ship and a PvE loadout.

Picture this you're doing cargo runs in a Python with 4x G5 resist modded boosters and a 5c Biweave shield genny with G5 thermal resist, lightweight military composites (kind of jack of all trades armour) like this one: https://s.orbis.zone/7grq - and you get interdicted by a meta de lance like this one: https://s.orbis.zone/7grr - Coriolis reckons the shields would last for 8 seconds the hull for 3 seconds - 11seconds time to kill for the Meta De Lance mince your python.

But being a capable pilot you are willing to "have a go", and as such your python has massive DPS frags, and a massive agility disadvantage against a meta de lance that is compounded by your 200+ cargo, but you still give it a go... According to Coriolis the Meta De Lance shields last four times as long as the pythons would, 32 seconds. But the hull / Armour - ouch - it has so many HP it can withstand one minute forty nine seconds of your sustained max DPS - 36 times as long as your hull will hold out if your opponent gets all guns trained on you.

FDL --> Python TTK = 011 seconds sustained fire
Python --> FDL TTK = 151 seconds sustained fire

Given such insurmountable odds, why even bother?

That's not a good build for open trading, but 11s is still more than enough to jump out and be on your way again. Change it a little and you are almost ungankable and it still can carry more than enough to run multiple outpost missions in 1 go. I got pulled twice yesterday in my bgs FdL and jumped out before they could fire the first shot. Frag Mamba's don't turn that well.

A mildly better Python, similar to the one I fly

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

Newbs in deciat, explorers in paper ships, traders, whats the difference? No challenge while spear giving u actual pvp.

As for deciat and "us" being delusional (just searched deciat in dangerous disscusion):

Pirate in Deciat System.

A PVP pirate just killed me in the Deciat system (Near the Carson Hub). If there's anyone nearby willing to help and wing up, please DM CMDR 'MartinEdition'.

forums.frontier.co.uk

Deciat Alert

PSA: Warning. There are unshielded Asp Explorers in Deciat. Repeat, unshielded Asp Explorers in Deciat. I don't know if it's a show of faith in the PS4 community, an indication that many console users don't bother with the forums/reddit/etc. or just ballsy explorers. But there they are, out...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Deciat gankers

To all the Deciat gankers out there, I am relatively new to this game and I totally understand that ED has all those roles players can choose to play as part of the immersion, but if you think that killing an unarmed (I had zero hard points), low level ship that just made a long trip all the...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Deciat in open is pretty fun

I have a lot of fun since I based myself in Deciat (Garay Terminal). People are talkative and there are a lot of interactions. I have been ganked and that's less fun but often when I get interdicted, it's someone who only wants to talk. Do you have the same experience as me around here ?

forums.frontier.co.uk

Escape from Deciat (Cutter & Cutter vs evil Vette)

We're getting close, Herlev, almost there. Hammers, Packhounds, [distraction], Torps, Boom! You escaped us again, GRRR

forums.frontier.co.uk

Outlaws posing as Enforcers while destroying innocent ships in Deciat (again)

Attention CMDRs! It has come to SPEAR's attention that bands of criminals are once again roaming in the system of Deciat, home to the respected member of the Engineer community Felicity Farseer. These cowardly agents of chaos are attacking innocents pilots going about their engineering business...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Protecting Deciat: SPEAR vs. The Code and al.

Wings of SPEAR forces fighting against wings of pirates from CODE and sympathizers in Deciat. Merry Xmas and may 2020 bring more moments like these.

forums.frontier.co.uk

Outlaws posing as Enforcers while destroying innocent ships in Deciat

Attention CMDRs! It has come to SPEAR's attention that bands of criminals are roaming in the system of Deciat, home to the respected member of the Engineer community Felicity Farseer. These outlaws are attacking innocents pilots going about their engineering business while at the same time...

forums.frontier.co.uk

PvP - Harassing Deciat Gankers

My alt account I’ve decided to only raise my combat rank by PvP. I rarely kill anyone so I’m still only ranked mostly harmless. Source: https://youtu.be/1jnG0FMAPao

forums.frontier.co.uk

I went to deicat just few times, I went Martuuk Way, but i saw total mayhem once or twice.

That's the traffic report from today, it's usually on the low side too. How many of them have opened a threat on being ganked today in Deciat? Do you have a higher chance to get shot at there then in other systems, yes of course but to the same time you also have a high chance to not encounter anybody at all. Or the majority of people playing in open don't really care about being shot at.

Nope,

It's dead accurate. It has less social implications in pvp but the need for consent is identical and if you are bothered by that revelation you may want to do some soul searching.

Clicking on open is giving consent, it's that simple.

 

[Zieman]

Clicking on open is giving consent, it's that simple.

This.

And advocating for 'open only' is trying to take away the possibility to choose.

 

[Chaparral]

Actually I don't know a single pvper that goes into solo for anything other than logging at the Jameson Memorial. I've mined every credit I have in open.

You Sir are an Icon of the game. I look up to you as many others do. However, but being like you might not be achievable by everyone.

 

[Nutter]

As we all know PvP suffers from a lack of targets due to most cmdrs opting for solo etc. And course I do too. Time is short do we really wanna be interdicted all the time in hotspots etc knowing it'll only go one way due to skill build etc etc etc.
So
Imagine an open where pilots cannot attack players with a lower rank. Namely an elite combat pilot can't gank a noob.
Imagine (devils in the detail here) a open where say an elite ganker attacked a deadly miner in a hotspot. There should be a responce in favour of the deadly pilot. A timer perhaps.. if he evades destruction or surrender of load a fed spec ops warps in hell bent on the elite pilots demise. Giving our miner chappy time to get out.
As previously said it's hard to get the balance right apart from the extremes and yes I see certain exploits but it's a workaround to a now deserted open chock full of carriers 1000s of players just not bothering open. All I want is as many players as possible in the same galaxy visible. Player groups bgs aside it would add a whole new feeling to the game.
This morbid fear of losing 400 Ltds in the new borann for example I get that I've grinded solo too.
But imagine say your a deadly cos most are..or dangerous, you could be ganked by lower ranked pilots who's skills I think would match yours. You would get ganked by a elite but the clocks ticking for him and you stand a good chance getting away.
There would be a skills to rank balance. Pvpers are generally Better combat pilots overall.
Offset this by not allowing em to gank say pilots below dangerous.
It's early morning and I'm knackered just an idea for what's to me a fundamental flaw in elite.
And yes l realise some just don't wanna fight at all for wotever reasons so there should be an opt out or just don't fly open.
The more players there are visible in-game I think the more immersive it'll be.

Also I think fdevs need to take a look at the whole open solo thing. I'm not saying for a minute kill one or the other...just reward those that do survive those encounters and punish those that do gank a lower rank.

Imagine having a build to play PvE, then this Commander turns up in a ship dedicated to PvP. The PvP player says Mooowhahaha I'm gunna pop-ya... at this point a menu pops up for the PvE player... Would you like to switch to your PvP ship? - Selects yes. Lets frikken go! Oh look, someone has connection issues...

 

[Stelar 7]

Explain how it does. It just enjoyable content for pvpers. And what's your problem with content to get more people interested in pvp?

If it was just funsies you wouldn't need to add an inventive. Adding an incentive attempts to increase membership.

If the pvp is consensual I'm all good, I like pvp. I'm just not a fan of pushing people who don't want to pvp into a situation where they have to.

Clicking on open is giving consent, it's that simple.

Indeed, which is why I'm not in favor of forcing people there or denying rewards for those who don't go there.

Simple.

 

[Just Paul]

I'm not saying forcing anybody in any mode, I played for a long time in solo. ED will always have the 3 modes, nothing will change there. But I'm for a full or partial open PP as it lends itself to PvP activities, but that is all.

I think initiatives like the Gank Academy (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/gank-evasion-academy.548797/page-9#post-8553596), Exigeous' Sidewinder Slaughter, or the GCI discord are the better ways to help people who want to take the step into open and for them to be prepared for the "dangers" there. Artificial restrictions in either way are not the right thing to do.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

You Sir are an Icon of the game. I look up to you as many others do. However, but being like you might not be achievable by everyone.

Thank you, I'm humbled but I'm not that great of a player.

I understand not everyone wants to trade, mine, ect. in open but it is possible and becomes routine when you've done it a lot. I do believe everyone could do it too if they wanted to but I also understand many players just want to relax and not feel like they're on edge when they play.