VR support 'not at launch' for Odyssey

CMDR M Kozak · Jul 1, 2020

kilvenny said:
I think that is a commendable attitude, we have made our feelings plain and at this point there is no reply, so the mature thing is to buckle down or move on quietly.

Indeed.
It's great to see other games and newer games evolve, yet even more so disappointing to watch how Frontier devolves their own games.

I have a feeling that people aren't gonna get the space legs they asked for, but a just a plain shooter instead. (One Frontier will eventually abandon CQC style)
There will be plenty of other occasions for us to light the torches.

Even though I won't be around for that, I still hope I'm wrong.

VR Dextrovix · Jul 1, 2020

I concur with the above. I've been negative in this thread to demonstrate my displeasure at Frontier, but to no apparent avail- even our new CM Arthur hasn't voiced any support. I just think Frontier are setting themselves up for further negativity down the line when other VR users on other store fronts find that Odyssey won't be available.

I will move on too, along with the other ED buyers that have been dropped in the past for development reasons, Mac, 32-bit Windows etc.

EA's Squadrons looks really good, so I've pre-ordered that- I'll also have use for my HOTAS previously used for ED! And it's not exclusive to EA's Origin store, so pleased about that. It's a sad day when I feel better in EA's garden, rather than Frontier's...

Franc Kaos · Jul 1, 2020

[VR] Dextrovix said:
I concur with the above. I've been negative in this thread to demonstrate my displeasure at Frontier, but to no apparent avail- even our new CM Arthur hasn't voiced any support.

Yea, Frontier thinks CM means something other than what the rest of the entire population of planet Earth thinks it it. Hint: it's about Managing Communities - Mind blown... Must be a sweet job being a CM at Frontier; 'What did you do at work today dear?' 'Oh, it was great, read some stuff on Facebook / Reddit / the forums (basement dwelling trolls), played Elite on a flat monitor for two hours then made tea for the entire office. Look, I burnt my pinkie!' 'Oh you poor dear...'
Maybe Arthur will grace us with his presence on page 100.

#noVRnoBuy

EUS · Jul 1, 2020

[VR] Dextrovix said:
even our new CM Arthur hasn't voiced any support

Franc Kaos said:
Maybe Arthur will grace us with his presence on page 100.

Don't blame the CMs, they're obviously not allowed to discuss this other than to parrot "not at launch". Devs too.
Want to vent your anger at someone? Choose the 2 or 3 head honchos that perpetuate this lousy comms strategy, you know, the ones that run the show.

VR SenseiMatty · Jul 1, 2020

In the mean time...
Look what I've found in the Star Citizen "verse" from March 24th (this year):

Hey,
CIG (Junior) Engine Programmer here
One of the reasons why i joined this company is to bring VR to Star Citizen. And there are also other people here in the company as dedicated about that as me.

Implementing VR into the rendering itself isn't a big deal, but as others already have pointed out it's having support from the game itself in terms of gameplay. I'm mostly concerned about tieing it into our animation system and what locomotion we can offer. Nobody wants to have teleporting players in the verse right?

There are lots of unknown questions which need to be solved and requires a collaboration from various teams here.

I imagine we will implement VR in stages, e.g. for a first step just being able to view ships in the hangar or using it in a cockpit. But a full VR implementation similar to Half Life Alyx is a whole different story.
I can't and won't make any promises but my personal goal is to have something similar to Alyx but with a visible full body and IK. I was never a fan of just seeing your hands in VR.

Apart from that if we get a NerveGear in two years i will be the first one to implement that straight away. Something like SAO is my ultimate dream

Anyway, i just wanted to say that there are people here at CIG who are huge VR enthusiasts and we will do anything within our capabilities to bring it to Star Citizen. It will be a huge task, it will take a while, but i have no doubt we will get there.

Thanks for your time.
Silvan

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...-the-first-few-hours-of-half-life-aly/2906197

VR CobraCommander · Jul 1, 2020

[VR] SenseiMatty said:
In the mean time...
Look what I've found in the Star Citizen "verse" from March 24th (this year):

Hey,
CIG (Junior) Engine Programmer here
One of the reasons why i joined this company is to bring VR to Star Citizen. And there are also other people here in the company as dedicated about that as me.

Implementing VR into the rendering itself isn't a big deal, but as others already have pointed out it's having support from the game itself in terms of gameplay. I'm mostly concerned about tieing it into our animation system and what locomotion we can offer. Nobody wants to have teleporting players in the verse right?

There are lots of unknown questions which need to be solved and requires a collaboration from various teams here.

I imagine we will implement VR in stages, e.g. for a first step just being able to view ships in the hangar or using it in a cockpit. But a full VR implementation similar to Half Life Alyx is a whole different story.
I can't and won't make any promises but my personal goal is to have something similar to Alyx but with a visible full body and IK. I was never a fan of just seeing your hands in VR.

Apart from that if we get a NerveGear in two years i will be the first one to implement that straight away. Something like SAO is my ultimate dream

Anyway, i just wanted to say that there are people here at CIG who are huge VR enthusiasts and we will do anything within our capabilities to bring it to Star Citizen. It will be a huge task, it will take a while, but i have no doubt we will get there.

Thanks for your time.
Silvan

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...-the-first-few-hours-of-half-life-aly/2906197

Interesting !

The most telling part is this quote from the CIG Engine Programmer:

"Implementing VR into the rendering itself isn't a big deal, "

Having said that, we still don't even have a game from CIG yet, despite the fact that the Star Citizen Kickstarter ended before the ED one started. So maybe a very large pinch of salt to be taken with that statement.

govny · Jul 2, 2020

[VR] SenseiMatty said:
In the mean time...
Look what I've found in the Star Citizen "verse" from March 24th (this year):

why don't you buy an SC copy?
you will see! it will have VR support before Odissey launch.

VR Golgot · Jul 2, 2020

[VR] SenseiMatty said:
In the mean time...
Look what I've found in the Star Citizen "verse" from March 24th (this year):

Hey,
CIG (Junior) Engine Programmer here
One of the reasons why i joined this company is to bring VR to Star Citizen. And there are also other people here in the company as dedicated about that as me.

Implementing VR into the rendering itself isn't a big deal, but as others already have pointed out it's having support from the game itself in terms of gameplay. I'm mostly concerned about tieing it into our animation system and what locomotion we can offer. Nobody wants to have teleporting players in the verse right?

There are lots of unknown questions which need to be solved and requires a collaboration from various teams here.

I imagine we will implement VR in stages, e.g. for a first step just being able to view ships in the hangar or using it in a cockpit. But a full VR implementation similar to Half Life Alyx is a whole different story.
I can't and won't make any promises but my personal goal is to have something similar to Alyx but with a visible full body and IK. I was never a fan of just seeing your hands in VR.

Apart from that if we get a NerveGear in two years i will be the first one to implement that straight away. Something like SAO is my ultimate dream

Anyway, i just wanted to say that there are people here at CIG who are huge VR enthusiasts and we will do anything within our capabilities to bring it to Star Citizen. It will be a huge task, it will take a while, but i have no doubt we will get there.

Thanks for your time.
Silvan

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...-the-first-few-hours-of-half-life-aly/2906197

And yet Star Citizen does not have VR support. That would be the key metric to focus on.

Nor does it appear to be close to having it. What you're looking at are the excitable dreams of a junior dev who doesn't get to make those decisions. The CMs on Spectrum chat were keen to pour water on those very same dreams a few days later:

The last official word from CIG (March 2019) was that their next step towards VR support would be Vulkan support. They do not currently have Vulkan support. (Hell, they also do not seemingly have the game stability or performance to support giant crewed Idris capital ships [which they also don’t have yet] at 2x90fps, but that’s a challenge for after Vulkan eh

)

Prior to that a senior dev (Ben Parry, ex of this parish) put it in these terms: 'Do not hold your breath for this' (March 2017).

The rule of thumb with all grand Star Citizen claims is: Believe it when they’ve actually released the game

In the meantime enjoy this hacked VorpX experience...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX7k_uVfmsY&feature=youtu.be

epoch5 · Jul 2, 2020

[VR] Golgot said:
And yet Star Citizen does not have VR support. That would be the key metric to focus on.

Nor does it appear to be close to having it. What you're looking it are the excitable dreams of a junior dev who doesn't get to make those decisions. The CMs on Spectrum chat were keen to pour water on those very same dreams a few days later:

The last official word from CIG (March 2019) was that their next step towards VR support would be Vulkan support. They do not currently have Vulkan support. (Hell, they also do not seemingly have the game stability or performance to support giant crewed Idris capital ships [which they also don’t have yet] at 2x90fps, but that’s a challenge for after Vulkan eh )

Prior to that a senior dev (Ben Parry, ex of this parish) put it in these terms: 'Do not hold your breath for this' (March 2017).

The rule of thumb with all grand Star Citizen claims is: Believe it when they’ve actually released the game

In the meantime enjoy this hacked VorpX experience...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX7k_uVfmsY&feature=youtu.be

I have heard this from a ton of people.

VR Golgot · Jul 2, 2020

epoch5 said:
I have heard this from a ton of people.

That Star Citizen doesn’t have VR support? Yeah they’re definitely right

Demascus · Jul 2, 2020

Rather have FD work on a quality/quantity release for their established platforms then waste time catering to a niche with a barren release.

Captain Willard · Jul 2, 2020

Demascus said:
Rather have FD work on a quality/quantity release for their established platforms then waste time catering to a niche with a barren release.

Not wasting time on cosmetics for very few doesn't bother me at all.

Arioch · Jul 2, 2020

Demascus said:
Rather have FD work on a quality/quantity release for their established platforms then waste time catering to a niche with a barren release.

I would also like FDev to produce a quality expansion then waste time catering to the niche I belong to...or did you mean to type “than”?

As for “established platforms”, I could’ve sworn VR was in ED from the very start, well before Playstations & Xboxes got catered to. Maybe I’m just not understanding your post, is it an “I’m all right, Jack” kind of thing or are you advocating the post-release inclusion of VR into EDO with basic implementation (“barren release”)?

-VR- Max Factor · Jul 2, 2020

CobraCommander said:
Interesting !

The most telling part is this quote from the CIG Engine Programmer:

"Implementing VR into the rendering itself isn't a big deal, "

Having said that, we still don't even have a game from CIG yet, despite the fact that the Star Citizen Kickstarter ended before the ED one started. So maybe a very large pinch of salt to be taken with that statement.

It isn't a big deal as we already have that. It's all the rest of it that's a big deal and will take time. Reading it, it sounded like it was going to take years.

VR SenseiMatty · Jul 2, 2020

What is more important imho is that the dev post actually confirms most of our speculations.

3D rendering is easy, it's the interface to support the gameplay that it's more complex. FDEV got 100 people that could work at that after the initial release so they could definitely confirm something already.
If they had to do it in steps the ship cockpit would be the first implementation, like we already have in ED

What I want to demonstrate with that post is that FDEV got no particular reason to avoid VR confirmation after Odyssey launch, but still they say nothing.

VR SenseiMatty · Jul 2, 2020

govny said:
why don't you buy an SC copy?
you will see! it will have VR support before Odissey launch.

I'm a backer since 2015 and I've spent several hours in the game already since alpha 3.8.
I already said several times that Elite Dangerous is special to me because of VR. If I have to play atmospheric planets and legs in pancake I don't need to wait next year for Odyssey.
In fact since last week I've been playing exclusively SC and my Fleet Carroer is parked out in the black with all services disabled.

I also have NMS since 2016 (just for info).

Viajero · Jul 2, 2020

[VR] SenseiMatty said:
What is more important imho is that the dev post actually confirms most of our speculations.

3D rendering is easy,

CIG has, in essence and in its own way, been telling us everything is “easy” for over 8+ years. Tools and pipelines must be ready any time now for that exponential growth in delivery.

Would strongly advice against taking any such messages at face value or as a “confirmation” of anything.

VR SenseiMatty · Jul 2, 2020

Viajero said:
CIG has, in essence and in its own way, been telling us everything is easy for over 8+ years.

Would strongly advice against taking any message coming from CIG at face value.

That's not true. They're aware of the complexity of the project and from a technological point of view they are already beyond ED.
The problem is (it has always been the problem with Chris Roberts) that they want to put too much stuff into it so the roadmap get shifted constantly. The game is playable right now, but it's not as complete as ED in terms of gameplay yet.
You can also buy and rent ships in the game and all the player assets are now preserved and not reset anymore after new patches, which was a big weak point up to some time ago.
There are still game breaking bugs that depends mostly on new features added to the game like the server errors (so here they're in line with ED), but since the last week I only had 1 server disconnect error.

ED strong points remain the full scale galaxy (that imho FDEV underestimante from a game point of view), VR and the possibility to control the ship in supercruise for additional gameplay mechanics.

Viajero · Jul 2, 2020

[VR] SenseiMatty said:
That's not true. They're aware of the complexity of the project and from a technological point of view they are already beyond ED

What little SC has managed to get out there so far imo is nowhere near technically stable or performant enough to be considered in any way beyond “anything” at the moment I am afraid. It is probably going to still require a bit more time and effort before you could reasonably have a go at making that kind of statement.

Either way I d recommend if you want to continue discussing SC merits or lack thereof you do it in its dedicated thread if possible.

VR SenseiMatty · Jul 2, 2020

Viajero said:
What little SC has managed to get out there so far imo is nowhere near technically stable or performant enough to be considered in any way beyond “anything” at the moment I am afraid. It is probably going to still require a bit more time and effort before you could reasonably have a go at making that kind of statement.

Either way I d recommend if you want to continue discussing SC merits or lack thereof you do it in its dedicated thread if possible.

Ok last thing then because in your last comment you're talking about something different.
Performance is another thing, even if it's pretty smooth and stable on my pc. I'm talking about the game features that in ED still now many players complain about or are a simply not in the game yet: multiplayer/multicrew coordinations and roles, FPS, mining on legs and on land vehicles, multiple land vehicles, possibility to generate missions for co-op, seamless transitions between all game phases, atmospheric planets with multiple biomes, survival elements, etc. This is what I was referring to.
We will be able to make a more fair comparison in one year when Odyssey will be released and we will be able to see what FDEV could come up with.
What I've always said about FC is that it has an amazing level of details but it lacks of a more homogeneous gameplay.