General / Off-Topic The safest place

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Guess what, those of us willing to go out and make sure there is still an economy to allow others to isolate are not all villains

This thing about the economy, I simply don't get it. The economy will sacrifice you or anyone in a heartbeat. Yet people seem to think it adores them.

The economy, in a very basic sense, is supposed to support life, not be something that is worth taking lives for.

The way I have seen some people react to this virus is staggering. One woman was on the (British) TV, "We're not going to give in to it", the normal patter we hear straight after a terrorist attack. It was a mindless response.

Imagine it wasn't a virus but thousands of rabid lions roaming the country. It is exactly the same, the more you're out the more risk you're taking. This whole idea that people will be defiant in the face of it or that the economy is more important is madness. "Oh I know there are loads of rabid lions out there but I pay no mind to it"

Anyway, what do I care? I'm not really a fan of humans or the society/civilisation they have created. Let it all burn.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

BTW, people leaving their homes are not the only ones working thus saving the economy. Plenty of us are working from home, still paying tax, still buying goods.

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

This Covid has certainly shaken up our societies!
I really struggle to imagine how the world will emerge;
Where is Hari Seldon when you need him!
Edit: actually can imagine multiple scenarios, just can’t predict

 

[Morbad]

I was getting rather bored with the old world anyway.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Things happen in a sequence. Lift heavy for a year, then you get stronger. Study, then you pass. Rewards only follow the effort. Failure follows lack of effort.

Fix the epidemic.
Then you get back a normal life.

Nobody is entitled to it without doing the work, making the sacrifice, and following the protocol. Those are not my rules. They are not the Government's rules, nor the "nanny state's". Those are simply the requirements of Reality.

And what is the requirement? Sit on the couch. Watch some TV. Wash your hands. Wear face covers. Stay 6 feet from nasty infected people.

You don't have to march in the rain. You don't have to slog 100 pounds of kit in the mud. No fasting, or starving, or memorising tomes. You get to sleep indoors. And use your own bathroom. And watch Netflix.

Is that too frikkin hard?
Well ok, enjoy the alternative then.

Because that is what you get. There are no excuses, no privileges, no do-overs, and no pardons. This is Nature's little way of saying 2 words to the short cutters, the rules-don't-apply-to-mes, etc.

And it is about bloody time they learned.

A good post here. So true.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Cracks Whip

Back to work slave!

But where is the next world ?

 

[Leper Messiah]

This Covid has certainly shaken up our societies!
I really struggle to imagine how the world will emerge;
Where is Hari Seldon when you need him!
Edit: actually can imagine multiple scenarios, just can’t predict

Havn't read those books for a Loooong time!! Must dig 'em out!

 

[Darkfyre99]

This is kind of relevant

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h3X3AmmlUqU

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

This is kind of relevant

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h3X3AmmlUqU

I agree, as a species we aren’t well equipped to comprehend the numbers involved and that we use previous experience to inform our decisions but I still think the bigger issue is that we’ve evolved a variety of psychological traits in addition to modern conditioning which mean we need signs like this :

We don’t believe something applies to us until it does.

edit: apologies for the image repeat, but I like it!

 

[Stigbob]

This is kind of relevant

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h3X3AmmlUqU

Very interesting, it not only explains why some people lose it about mask wearing but why climate change denial exists.

It does raise a very worrying question though.

Since mask rejection is based three psychological issue's the combination of knowledge its for other peoples benefit not directly for the wearer, an inability to genuinely worry about long term risks and an inability to process large numbers of people as being at risk. Is it morally right to lie to the people who are subject to this ?.

For example "wearing masks is just to protect the mask wearer" would bypass the first issue and theoretically increase mask uptake benefitting the majority.



Edit : the theory also fits anti-vaxxers like a glove. I already noticed a massive amount of covidiot/anti-vax crossover in ranty internet types this certainly explains that.

 

[ianw]

Very interesting, it not only explains why some people lose it about mask wearing but why climate change denial exists.

It does raise a very worrying question though.

Since mask rejection is based three psychological issue's the combination of knowledge its for other peoples benefit not directly for the wearer, an inability to genuinely worry about long term risks and an inability to process large numbers of people as being at risk. Is it morally right to lie to the people who are subject to this ?.

For example "wearing masks is just to protect the mask wearer" would bypass the first issue and theoretically increase mask uptake benefitting the majority.



Edit : the theory also fits anti-vaxxers like a glove. I already noticed a massive amount of covidiot/anti-vax crossover in ranty internet types this certainly explains that.

Yes - I think they dropped the ball on the mask thing badly.

All they needed to say from the start is (thinking UK);

We don't want you buying medical grade masks because we got caught out and there aren't enough for frontline peeps working in a live covid environment.

But anything is better than nothing so use some kind of face covering to protect you and others.

Instead they painted themselves into a masks aren't needed/are pointless/won't protect you/you don't know how to use them anyway corner for weeks/months then realised they messed up.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Is it morally right to lie to the people who are subject to this ?.

In an age where people are unable to discern between their opinion and a fact I'm not sure lying to them would even work. An ever increasing section of society is determined that everything is a lie anyway, all a big cover up. Anti-vaxers (as mentioned above), flat earthers, climate change deniers, even holocaust deniers. No matter how many facts or tactics you use, some will never be convinced We are the sheeple, they know better.

To highlight that, I had a conversation on this very forum where someone was saying (I believe genuinely) that getting men to shave was a communist plot to feminize men so that they (the communists) could sweep in and take over.

Both in the states and the UK, there is a an ever growing mistrust of 'experts' and to some degree, who can blame them? Think of all the lies you've heard a politician say for a start. Experts tell us this food is bad for you and a decade later, that is wrong. Experts provided intelligence for the Iraq war. It's a hopeless mess really. Faced with such inconsistencies, people are bound to make up their own facts and stick to them, right up to the bitter end.

 

[Stigbob]

Yes - I think they dropped the ball on the mask thing badly.

All they needed to say from the start is (thinking UK);

We don't want you buying medical grade masks because we got caught out and there aren't enough for frontline peeps working in a live covid environment.

But anything is better than nothing so use some kind of face covering to protect you and others.

Instead they painted themselves into a masks aren't needed/are pointless/won't protect you/you don't know how to use them anyway corner for weeks/months then realised they messed up.

They dropped the ball badly on absolutely everything so far and there's no sign of that changing going forward. We've been ignoring them and doing our own thing based on rules from countries that performed much better.

In an age where people are unable to discern between their opinion and a fact I'm not sure lying to them would even work. An ever increasing section of society is determined that everything is a lie anyway, all a big cover up. Anti-vaxers (as mentioned above), flat earthers, climate change deniers, even holocaust deniers. No matter how many facts or tactics you use, some will never be convinced We are the sheeple, they know better.

To highlight that, I had a conversation on this very forum where someone was saying (I believe genuinely) that getting men to shave was a communist plot to feminize men so that they (the communists) could sweep in and take over.

Both in the states and the UK, there is a an ever growing mistrust of 'experts' and to some degree, who can blame them? Think of all the lies you've heard a politician say for a start. Experts tell us this food is bad for you and a decade later, that is wrong. Experts provided intelligence for the Iraq war. It's a hopeless mess really. Faced with such inconsistencies, people are bound to make up their own facts and stick to them, right up to the bitter end.

Side effect of spin as a deliberate strategy people just lose any trust they ever had. On the ignoring experts thing "Britain has had enough of experts" was a popular slogan in the UK not long ago, now we have the second worst covid death rate in Europe .

 

[ianw]

I scratched my pub itch earlier.

Was en route from one errand to another when a mate sent me a pic of a pint from our local - apparently it wasn't busy there so I made a slight detour to join him for a swifty.

About 1230 - a few people at a table outside, the rest of the outside tables empty. The staff were all masked, up took my name. Sat at my mates table - a pint of London Pride was delivered in seconds.

Quick chat 10 mins later pint done and on my way. He left shortly after.

There was one other bloke in a corner table inside. I imagine it might be busier tonight but no over crowding problems at lunch time.

 

[Morbad]

Had to break isolation today to buy an assload of sulfuric acid and a bigger wrench (clogged sewer line). Wasn't intending to go out, but not being able to run any water at all rather forced the issue.

Only place that had what I needed in one location was a Walmart no less. Pretty crowded and not much in the way of distancing, but at least most everyone had masks. Might have been wiser to call a plumber, but either it's just a clog, which I can disolve and snake myself for considerably less than they'd charge (if I could even find one on a weekend), or it's a collapsed line which will require the basement and/or front yard to be torn up.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I also think most people are too optimistic...the "it'll never happen to me" attitude. I am extremely pessimistic and negative and so this winds me up no end. I think of all the ways something "could" go wrong and make sure I do things to ensure it never "does" go wrong (mentally exhausting though!)....whereas most have the "it'll never happen" so never prepare for the worst....then it's too late when it does happen.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Had to break isolation today to buy an assload of sulfuric acid and a bigger wrench (clogged sewer line). Wasn't intending to go out, but not being able to run any water at all rather forced the issue.

These things always seem to happen at inconvenient times. Sunday, during a Pandemic surge in infections is record breakingly inconvenient, though.

After the first time the line got blocked, (ground movement caused a cracked line, and a tree grew roots into it, utterly unfixable) we isolated a bathroom from the new main line, and put in a bypass line, so our sewerage is now redundant. One functioning bathroom no matter what is priceless.

Been there, good luck with repairs.

 

[Stigbob]

Had to break isolation today to buy an assload of sulfuric acid and a bigger wrench (clogged sewer line). Wasn't intending to go out, but not being able to run any water at all rather forced the issue.

Only place that had what I needed in one location was a Walmart no less. Pretty crowded and not much in the way of distancing, but at least most everyone had masks. Might have been wiser to call a plumber, but either it's just a clog, which I can disolve and snake myself for considerably less than they'd charge (if I could even find one on a weekend), or it's a collapsed line which will require the basement and/or front yard to be torn up.

Always worth trying to melt it first. I have a cesspit so when I break up a mini-fatberg I have to go stinky caustic blob fishing as they are bad for the system.

 

[Gortron]

So I just read this... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53188847

I'm not an expert or anything but the reason Asian counties are doing better is so obvious it is becoming annoying. They all wear masks when they are ill.

Why can't western cultures accept covering your face up when you are ill works. Asian cultures don't do it for fun. It is nothing to do with track and trace; it is because if everyone wore a face mask when ill you'd not spread the virus around in the first place,

 

[Stigbob]

So I just read this... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53188847

I'm not an expert or anything but the reason Asian counties are doing better is so obvious it is becoming annoying. They all wear masks when they are ill.

Why can't western cultures accept covering your face up when you are ill works. Asian cultures don't do it for fun. It is nothing to do with track and trace; it is because if everyone wore a face mask when ill you'd not spread the virus around in the first place,

Germany (and others) are wearing masks in public places to positive effect, so its not a western issue.

As for the UK if you ever admit you were wrong in politics it haunts you perpetually as people bring it up in every debate or mention of your name, so people never do it as its one of the most damaging things you can do to yourself. That means once you commit to the wrong course of action you stick with it to the bitter end as you "can't be seen to change your mind".

In this instance fear of PPE shortages meant the UK government initially went with "masks don't work" purely to stop the shortage becoming worse as people panic bought them/stole them from hospitals. Now they are stuck with their own dangerously false narrative.

Its been a recurring problem in Britain for hundreds of years. Side effect of the punch and judy debate method used in the house.