Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Was catching up on the thread and after giggling at the thought of puffing away listening to Tony Z prattle on about Pink Floyd tracks, wondered: has literally ANYTHING he has spent most of the last decade talking about ever been added to the game in any fashion?

What a strange job that must be. On the one hand, kinda nice to be tossed a bone by an old coworker and be able to spin endless THC AI fantasies to excited fans... on the other, none of it comes to pass as you get older and further away from actual game development.
 
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Was catching up on the thread and after giggling at the thought of puffing away listening to Tony Z prattle on about Pink Floyd tracks, wondered: has literally ANYTHING he has spent most of the last decade talking about ever been added to the game in any fashion?

What a strange job that must be.


The bartender is nearly in, presaging a torrent of AI subsumption. Early days!
 
Subsumption is, what? Three years old now? And still nowhere in actual sight.

Still makes me wonder why they're not just licensing the whole thing from Bethesda, but I guess as I said back then: they don't just call it Radiant, since we all know what silliness that AI gets up to even after Bethesda having worked on it for close to 15 years. :D

Naturally, CIG's version will be much better since they have no experience and a fraction of the time spent.
 
Betcha you could make a better Star Citizen within 2 years using Creation Engine. The space combat would be equally crap with weightless 3d model viewers attacking each other, but at least they'd have something actually built for all the stupid micro-detailed simulationist stuff with endless scripts bouncing around. Why, there would even BE endless scripts to bounce around!

Also they would have persistence! And endless loading screens!

Pledge for my Kickstarter today!
 
Subsumption is, what? Three years old now? And still nowhere in actual sight.

Still makes me wonder why they're not just licensing the whole thing from Bethesda, but I guess as I said back then: they don't just call it Radiant, since we all know what silliness that AI gets up to even after Bethesda having worked on it for close to 15 years. :D

Naturally, CIG's version will be much better since they have no experience and a fraction of the time spent.
Ugh, Radiant. Most overblown POC ever.
 
Subsumption is, what? Three years old now? And still nowhere in actual sight.

Still makes me wonder why they're not just licensing the whole thing from Bethesda, but I guess as I said back then: they don't just call it Radiant, since we all know what silliness that AI gets up to even after Bethesda having worked on it for close to 15 years. :D

Naturally, CIG's version will be much better since they have no experience and a fraction of the time spent.

Just killed a dragon in front of the whole town.

Guard: "I've got my eye on you!"
 
Subsumption is, what? Three years old now? And still nowhere in actual sight.

Still makes me wonder why they're not just licensing the whole thing from Bethesda, but I guess as I said back then: they don't just call it Radiant, since we all know what silliness that AI gets up to even after Bethesda having worked on it for close to 15 years. :D

Naturally, CIG's version will be much better since they have no experience and a fraction of the time spent.

Closer to 5 years, believe it or not.

The patch after ArcCorp was going to be persistence and then it was going to be subsumption.
 
The fundamental mistake you're making as a non-developer, is that you're holding CIG to the letter of their promises before they actually knew what the monthly burn rate was, how long things would take, if they could develop tech to produce assets based on early estimates, etc. You're taking estimates as carved-in-stone gospel, and this is a mistake. Even game producers and game company top brass know better. It's easy enough to estimate a few assets, but a game that relies on tech that hasn't even been invented yet is a whole other story. But, who else had planetside landing when CIG did it in patch 3.0? Nobody else, as I recall. Now CIG is up to Planet Tech V4 and it's pretty incredible, and ever-evolving.

The reason CIG doesn't have a publisher is exactly because of this type of thinking, which is why Star Citizen could never have been made before Chris Roberts vision and CIG's collective effort, along with direct-funding through ship, merch, subscription, and other sales.

With your line of thinking, this game would never, ever get made. This is what publishers do....they kill dreams...especially the big dreams. Sure, they will be happy to let devs re-skin a tired old engine and keep hawking their microtransactions, but none have the wherewithal, money, time, or vision to do what CIG is doing. Why do you think that nobody made a 'Star Citizen' before Roberts and CIG undertook this massive task? CR of course has a background of making space games, from Wing Commander to Privateer (all of which I played on release), and later on Starlancer and Freelancer. Chris's career evolution has led us to this.

Pledges are the very engine powering the development of SQ42 and Star Citizen, and Star Citizen backers are eager to get their hands on ships. This is why we have to RUSH to buy a $2000 ship before they sell out. And, if the game is so bad (in alpha), then why do the highest priced ships sell out in not hours or minutes but seconds, but for a few warbond stragglers? It's because this game has already demonstrated its value, even in alpha. What release will bring is hard to imagine, and will be light years ahead of its competition (though they're starting to mobilize their efforts seeing the writing on the wall). All we need now is more of the vision to be realized, along with more stability, QoL, and bug-fixes. Optimization generally comes last, though some has to be done along the way to keep players happy and attract new players.

What CIG is doing is totally unprecedented for a very good reason. It's difficult, and it's expensive, and it's funded in a totally new way, and it requires a totally different mindset from the end-user who is used to playing finished product, not helping to test an alpha as an extension of the QA team.

I suggest you consider that game devs (which is my field) are in the business of making estimates, but everything is always a moving target. Any AAA game worth making takes a minimum of 5 years these days for devs starting from scratch (even with a licensed engine), and 5 years can be a long time in the computer graphics and hardware world.

This is why CIG aimed AHEAD of its time with its graphic standards, and they chose the right path. No other space sim touches Star Citizen with respect to graphics and fidelity. Zero. None. Nothing is even close, and I say this as a professional 3D artist with perhaps some idea of what makes good art good. Frontier is having to play catch-up with space legs that will likely only be on planets/moons (not ships), and X4 is scurrying along well behind both of them to keep up. NMS isn't even in the same galaxy, as the lack of fidelity dramatically reduces asset-creation time (seriously, the ships look like they were designed by children).

This is not a project for the impatient or those who think that holding CIG to the letter of every estimate or promise is a productive or edifying pursuit. It's game dev. It's a moving target, CIG is still way in the lead with tech, fidelity, art, sound, and this project would not be possible with the traditional way of thinking or publishing games.

Finally, this game is out. Right now. It's in alpha, and new features are being added every patch, though it's neither feature complete nor content complete. Alphas are not for everyone, but for those who understand what CIG is doing, it's the greatest space sim ever...in alpha....and we're here to help see history in the making whilst testing and helping CIG as they go.

Sometimes i struggle to decide whether someone is trolling or if someone should stop sniffing glue. But this one looks 100% like a troll post. I mean, it can be hard to tell, but i think the part about having to rush to buy $2000 ships tips their hand... nobody, absoloutely nobody, can be that deranged.
 
I don't intend to disparage someone's (or anybody's) internet credentials, as clearly I am an not a professional 3D artist in game development, and I haven't purchased a $2000 immersion chariot nor understand what makes great art good.

What I am however, is a mainframe hardware engineer, and I can tell you absolutely free of charge - is that their network implementation is hot wet garbage that all the other hot wet garbage threw into the gutter and laughed at.
 
So, that's the ultra advanced AI that CIG have spent the last couple of years working on? The thing that they will use to also work with all other NPCs in game, from ground combat troops to space pirates?

Its damn dialog options and some basic decision trees.

2 years of bigging this up, and not let's forget, all the talk of Subsumption practically since 2012.

CIG really know how to take the simplest things and make them complicated.

But no other bartender NPCs looks so good

Also true to form, the animations are amateurish and the whole thing just looks bad, rushed, and simplistic.

Its alpha..../duh

Regarding NPCs the last thing I played before trying this again was Hitman 2, After moving though large crowds of colourful and varied individuals moving realistically and going about their routines the drab motionless mannequins standing on chairs in Star Citizen are a bit of a culture shock :LOL::LOL::LOL:

Impossible because Star Citizen does stuff never been done before

Sometimes i struggle to decide whether someone is trolling or if someone should stop sniffing glue. But this one looks 100% like a troll post. I mean, it can be hard to tell, but i think the part about having to rush to buy $2000 ships tips their hand... nobody, absoloutely nobody, can be that deranged.

It might ve been a troll post a few years back but today the sane and funny elements have mostly filtered out of the community so you are left with people who really believe this kind of stuff and feel threatened by guffing and criticism.
 

Sometimes i struggle to decide whether someone is trolling or if someone should stop sniffing glue. But this one looks 100% like a troll post. I mean, it can be hard to tell, but i think the part about having to rush to buy $2000 ships tips their hand... nobody, absoloutely nobody, can be that deranged.
Some people got more money than IQ, it's just one of those facts in life.
 

Sometimes i struggle to decide whether someone is trolling or if someone should stop sniffing glue. But this one looks 100% like a troll post. I mean, it can be hard to tell, but i think the part about having to rush to buy $2000 ships tips their hand... nobody, absoloutely nobody, can be that deranged.
You obviously haven't visited #concierge chat on Spectrum, it's a daily...sometimes hourly topic of discussion :)
 
Someone was asking about databases, high player counts and SC poor attempts at providing persistence. I am not entirely up to date but eve-online used to run IBM hardware and the database resides on a Storage Area Network (SAN) which was configured mostly with SSD's to give high IOTP. Keep in mind that some databases are optimized for read IO, some for write IO and other are equal good for read and write (balanced).

SC uses AWS for some things but for the game servers I don't know. Anyone have a link to their setup ?

Older architecture link for eve-online as I cannot find a more current one -


and this was a refresh in 2017

 
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SC uses AWS for some things but for the game servers I don't know. Anyone have a link to their setup ?


Seems like it:

We use Amazon's Elastic Cloud Computing (EC2) for our server hosting. I don't know the exact numbers but they have tens of thousands of servers available in each region, and we can add as many of these as we want to our network within a matter of minutes. That's a crazy amount of computing power, right at our fingertips. It's definitely more than we would need for each planet and space station, in every star system, to have their own server.

However, the thing to remember is that having servers tied to specific in-game locations is just a temporary stepping stone on the way to the full server meshing implementation. My guess and my hope is that we'll have left this temporary solution behind by the time new systems start coming online, but I'm not entirely sure how everything lines up on the roadmap, so I might be wrong about that. (April 2019)

There’s more there, and their broader plan is in this here Server Meshing Bible.

They don’t seem hugely far along with it though (April 2020)
 
Seems like it:



There’s more there, and their broader plan is in this here Server Meshing Bible.

They don’t seem hugely far along with it though (April 2020)
Thanks for the links. Makes you wonder how they are going to do the database then as many servers is great but the bottleneck is then the transaction through put on the database if it is a single instance. Could go distributed database of course and there are a few offering that support this and provide SQL support. Database architecture and design has to be done correctly from the start for this as it ripples back into the game design and code.

When I used to work as a DBA, we aimed for subsecond response time or better for the SQL part of a transaction.
 
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