Notice GalNet changes

[Everin Grace]

I approve of these changes to GalNet. I can read the books if I want to read fiction tied to the ED universe.

I understand some people aren't into the lore and the fiction. Some of us REALLY are though. BIG TIME. Roleplayers and storytellers play this game alongside the explorers and the gankers and the traders and the guys who like to hunt aliens.

To remove something cos one set of players personally don't like it would be the equivalent of getting rid of half the ships cos "I never use them." A game without lore and story and the ability to commit to an allegiance and make stories of your own from it is not a game a lot of us want to contribute to: And yeah I mean contribute - not simply "play and be done with."

I hope that FDev realise that if you want us to put hundreds or thousands of hours into your game then we must have a connection to what we're doing. To live vicariously in what we do and feel that it makes a difference. The story arcs you were writing (and the community was contributing to) are really important for that for a lot of us.

Anything that reduces the narrative of a game reduces the level of detail to it. Please don't.

 

[Old Duck]

This is good news !
Hooray for everything \o/

Flimley

Do you still feel this way?

 

[Old Duck]

I understand some people aren't into the lore and the fiction. Some of us REALLY are though. BIG TIME. Roleplayers and storytellers play this game alongside the explorers and the gankers and the traders and the guys who like to hunt aliens.

To remove something cos one set of players personally don't like it would be the equivalent of getting rid of half the ships cos "I never use them." A game without lore and story and the ability to commit to an allegiance and make stories of your own from it is not a game a lot of us want to contribute to: And yeah I mean contribute - not simply "play and be done with."

I hope that FDev realise that if you want us to put hundreds or thousands of hours into your game then we must have a connection to what we're doing. To live vicariously in what we do and feel that it makes a difference. The story arcs you were writing (and the community was contributing to) are really important for that for a lot of us.

Anything that reduces the narrative of a game reduces the level of detail to it. Please don't.

I see I'm not the only one necroing old posts, LOL. Read my much more recent post on the subject here:

Notice - GalNet changes

I just heard the news. Frankly, I am not surprised. Like a lot of other people, my future hopes rest upon Odyssey. Right now I can entertain the notion that Odyssey is going to be so full of content and new features, that such niceties as CGs and GALNET are no longer going to be necessary...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I think this will show that we're both on the same side, now that 20/20 hindsight has revealed the sinister meaning behind the originally "innocent" OP.

 

[Everin Grace]

I see I'm not the only one necroing old posts, LOL. Read my much more recent post on the subject here:

Notice - GalNet changes

I just heard the news. Frankly, I am not surprised. Like a lot of other people, my future hopes rest upon Odyssey. Right now I can entertain the notion that Odyssey is going to be so full of content and new features, that such niceties as CGs and GALNET are no longer going to be necessary...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I think this will show that we're both on the same side, now that 20/20 hindsight has revealed the sinister meaning behind the originally "innocent" OP.

I think all evidence suggests that they gave up writing the fiction. Maybe lost a writer or downsized. What is really sad is there is obviously a community that would be happy to pick up the reins. Whatever the reason they had for taking a step back from it I dont think anyone imagined they would simply abandon it without giving the community a chance to make something of it.

Now here we are. And look I'm only a new player (albeit I bought the game a long time ago - but this is my first foray into it). and I want to know honestly: WHERE IS THE REST OF THE GAME?

Where are community goals? I just started a faction and want to build some real immersion and excitment for my team and my allies. Get people to come visit.

I write RP and.. I have no guidelines or way to approach it. There is nothing new to hook onto. I feel like I chase the ghosts of what players were writing before.

If FDev wants to cater to new players (And I hope they do! Spacelegs should get an influx of new players I hope) then they need to offer as much immersion as they can.

Now we have a new community manager and I really want him to help us find out: Whats the plan? The community wants to know!

 

[zimms]

Remember this? ...... Should we give it back ?

View attachment 180630

Or .... should we fly a fleet of these as a protest into the next Livestream?

I remember when FD first announced that GalNet will join these other features at the farm. I put this paintjob on my Anaconda and traveled to Colonia. Watching the paintjob slowly fade away was a heavy-handed but cruelly truthful metaphor.

 

[Thatchinho]

I think all evidence suggests that they gave up writing the fiction. Maybe lost a writer or downsized. What is really sad is there is obviously a community that would be happy to pick up the reins. Whatever the reason they had for taking a step back from it I dont think anyone imagined they would simply abandon it without giving the community a chance to make something of it.

Now here we are. And look I'm only a new player (albeit I bought the game a long time ago - but this is my first foray into it). and I want to know honestly: WHERE IS THE REST OF THE GAME?

Where are community goals? I just started a faction and want to build some real immersion and excitment for my team and my allies. Get people to come visit.

I write RP and.. I have no guidelines or way to approach it. There is nothing new to hook onto. I feel like I chase the ghosts of what players were writing before.

If FDev wants to cater to new players (And I hope they do! Spacelegs should get an influx of new players I hope) then they need to offer as much immersion as they can.

Now we have a new community manager and I really want him to help us find out: Whats the plan? The community wants to know!

If you're new then you probably haven't been around for a lot of it, but there's not really any need to speculate on what the situation is and what's going on. It's all been explained, and laid out in advance.

Most of FD's ED staff are focused on Odyssey. Very few are available for other things. That's been the situation for a year and a half. FD did tell us up front what the situation was going to be. (And incidentally there's a lot of very good reasons for FD to have taken the general approach they did.)

What's probably worth noting is that the current situation isn't actually as per FD's original stated plan for the period between 3.3 and Odyssey. Several substantive changes were made last year as things went on, and they've resulted in the current situation.

This year, there's also obviously then been the coronavirus situation. Odyssey was originally going to be arriving Q4 this (calendar) year, but due to what's been going on, it got moved back to the early part of next year.

That's the general situation at high level.

Probably best, to frame expectations around it, plus factor it all in with suggestions/requests as well.

I think the only thing that's not been clarified yet is whether there's be an update between now and Odyssey. Personally I doubt there will be, unless there's a bug fixing update. (3-5 mths between updates roughly, which following on from the FC update is going to then Sep/Oct/Nov which would almost certainly be well into the ramp up period for Odyssey.)

 

[Everin Grace]

If you're new then you probably haven't been around for a lot of it, but there's not really any need to speculate on what the situation is and what's going on. It's all been explained, and laid out in advance.

Most of FD's ED staff are focused on Odyssey. Very few are available for other things. That's been the situation for a year and a half. FD did tell us up front what the situation was going to be. (And incidentally there's a lot of very good reasons for FD to have taken the general approach they did.)

What's probably worth noting is that the current situation isn't actually as per FD's original stated plan for the period between 3.3 and Odyssey. Several substantive changes were made last year as things went on, and they've resulted in the current situation.

This year, there's also obviously then been the coronavirus situation. Odyssey was originally going to be arriving Q4 this (calendar) year, but due to what's been going on, it got moved back to the early part of next year.

That's the general situation at high level.

Probably best, to frame expectations around it, plus factor it all in with suggestions/requests as well.

I think the only thing that's not been clarified yet is whether there's be an update between now and Odyssey. Personally I doubt there will be, unless there's a bug fixing update. (3-5 mths between updates roughly, which following on from the FC update is going to then Sep/Oct/Nov which would almost certainly be well into the ramp up period for Odyssey.)

Well that's all very well but the latest twitter says Galnet and Community goals are not on the roadmap. Kaput. That doesnt really encourage us very much - and basically a lot of people want to know: Is Elite ever going to focus on writing talent again? Have all the stories been told? What do they intend?

And most importantly: If they are COMPLETELY giving up (and sadly this looks to be most likely) on lore and immersive universe fiction then PLEASE for the LOVE OF GOD why not at least give it to the community in some way to keep going. Right now they just have simply butchered game features and immersion out of the game like an amputation. We want a fix and SURELY someone realises this is not a good idea. My gut feeling is they didnt want it to end up like this - originally they just wanted to step back and improve it but other priorities (and challenges like Covid, as you describe) got in the way. However right now its dead. Not on life support but actually DEAD, and a lot of players are giving up on roleplay and creative content.
FDev! It doesn't need to be like that!

Lastly: Galnet and Community Goals and just generally the lore and fiction in general have nothing to do with Odyssey. I get that FDev have new priorities - but "writing talent" is not the same as "developer talent". Either they have writing talent or they don't. If they don't then please let the community take up the mantle. Don't let it die like this.

 

[Randomkeyhits]

Didn't care about the FCs, don't honestly care about spacelegs though that may change if the implementation warrants it.

I originally wanted an offline, solo only version which this is more and more feeling like while still being online.

I accepted that ED was an MMO and tailored my expectations to that and now I'm watching what passed for content being drained away. Galnet to me was effective, it helped make the game feel like things could happen, were happening and that I might get caught up in them.

We'll have to change that old description now to "A mile wide but only half an inch deep"

I honestly believe its not a case of "We don't have the resources to do this" but "We don't want to bother to do this". It may not be but that is the message that I am receiving.

With this kind of messaging and engagement from FD it reduces the likelihood of me splashing any cash on the game.

Most definitely disappointed.

 

[Thatchinho]

For reference, from 3rd March:

There are no plans on returning Galnet News Articles, Community Goals, and Interstellar Initiatives at this time. If this does change we will let you know.

 

[Everin Grace]

Well lets try tempering our disappointment with optimism.

Spacelegs should get a pretty good influx of players. Hopefully it revitalizes the community. Fresh blood.

Technical features are nice - no question its great to see that FDev are still supporting and developing and expanding their game.


I hope and have faith in the fact that when thousandes and thousands of players are walking round their universe, FDev will want to bring that universe even closer to them for a richer and more immersive experience, and then they're going to suddenly remember that they already have an extrmely powerful tool for doing that - if only they can figure out how to use it properly.

Galnet and the lore and the community goals can work together to build an immersive experience as good as any other space-legs game. FDev just need to have a bit of faith and become storytellers again (and let the storytellers in their community tell their own tales).

 

[Everin Grace]

For reference, from 3rd March:

We're aware. This thread discusses the twitter post.

Theres nothing wrong with the community nudging FDev on the issue. Why should FDev prioritise it at all unless we can actually demonstrate it's something we really want?

I mean to stay vocal on this: The lore and the opportunity to have an impact on this universe are really the reason I'm here. Others feel the same way, as is demostrated in this thread and others.

The community has obviously been waiting for FDev to bring back some form of Galnet and community goals for a while. Silently waiting? If so then too silent, and FDev might have mistaken that for "Players don't really care."

Well we do care. A lot of us. Galnet is a window into an awesome universe. Community goals were a way for players to meaningfully affect the game. We shouldn't lose them just cos "too hard and stuff." That would be a tragedy.

 

[Thatchinho]

Well that's all very well but the latest twitter says Galnet and Community goals are not on the roadmap. Kaput. That doesnt really encourage us very much - and basically a lot of people want to know: Is Elite ever going to focus on writing talent again? Have all the stories been told? What do they intend?

And most importantly: If they are COMPLETELY giving up (and sadly this looks to be most likely) on lore and immersive universe fiction then PLEASE for the LOVE OF GOD why not at least give it to the community in some way to keep going. Right now they just have simply butchered game features and immersion out of the game like an amputation. We want a fix and SURELY someone realises this is not a good idea. My gut feeling is they didnt want it to end up like this - originally they just wanted to step back and improve it but other priorities (and challenges like Covid, as you describe) got in the way. However right now its dead. Not on life support but actually DEAD, and a lot of players are giving up on roleplay and creative content.
FDev! It doesn't need to be like that!

Lastly: Galnet and Community Goals and just generally the lore and fiction in general have nothing to do with Odyssey. I get that FDev have new priorities - but "writing talent" is not the same as "developer talent". Either they have writing talent or they don't. If they don't then please let the community take up the mantle. Don't let it die like this.

Have said it already in other posts, but see the link I've just posted. There's no new news.

Anyway, big question for me with regard to what you're saying... where are you getting the idea that lore and fiction (and therefore writing talent) aren't part of Odyssey?

I would argue that they're integral.

FD are investing a huge amount into launching Odyssey as a very major update, and in contrast to previous things where they've been a season of updates, with content added throughout the season, for Odyssey all the indications are that it's instead being all wrapped into a single massive update. How can writing, etc not be part of it?

Anyway, here's a couple of FD posts which cover the narrative situation. Please note that first is from Aug last year (in this thread), but some parts were superseded when there was a change to the plan in Oct, so it should be treated as general background info, not statements about what is happening now.

Greetings, Commanders.
After reviewing the discussion around the upcoming GalNet changes, Ian Dingwall, Narrative Lead for Elite Dangerous, wanted to address some of your questions.
Hopefully this information will provide you with some clarity on why we feel these changes are important for the further development of Elite Dangerous.

What led to this decision?
Producing content for GalNet takes a significant amount of time, especially when you factor in conception, editing and translation. For me, content such as Interstellar Initiatives and the scenarios we added to the game last year have a greater impact on the game than off-camera GalNet storylines. So when we, as a team, look at the features and updates we intend to deliver in the coming months and years, we feel it’s in the best interest of the game to ensure the writing team can support those features, and make them the best they possibly can from a narrative point of view. Consequently, the decision to remove off-camera narratives is very much about refocusing the team, rather than reducing the amount of time and effort we devote to the narrative side of the game.

With these cutbacks will Interstellar Initiatives get more stores, details and lore?
Yes, by refocusing the writing team we will be able to produce more supporting content for Interstellar Initiatives. During the Bridging the Gap initiative it was pointed out – quite rightly – that reactions from Ram Tah and Aegis would have been appropriate. Refocusing our efforts means we can devote time to producing these kinds of ‘reaction’ pieces.

Can we expect to see more coverage on affairs with major player groups?
This is something we have discussed, and, while we don't have any concrete details for you right now, we fully intend to investigate this further.

Are the GalNet 'off-camera' stories getting totally removed, or just reduced?
For now, the plan is to remove them, but we may reassess this decision in the future. We’re always reviewing the changes we make to the game and their impact on the overall player experience, and adapting and adjusting where necessary.

Will the amount of GalNet content change? Will it increase or decrease?
It will decrease slightly overall, reflecting the fact that we are refocusing our efforts.

Is the team understaffed?
No, not at all – in fact we’re about to gain an additional full-time writer. But we have an ambitious production schedule ahead of us, and it was therefore necessary to reposition the writing team so it could properly support that schedule.

What will happen to GalNet Audio?
It will remain an aspect of the game – there are no plans to remove GalNet audio.

Was the Gan Romero story reflected in-game?
The Gan Romero storyline was always envisaged as an off-camera narrative. The fact that some people assumed it had an in-game component, and went searching for Romero, was for me further evidence that off-camera GalNet stories could be detrimental to the player experience, and cemented our desire to ensure that all GalNet content related to things that were actually in the game.

Will we ever hear of the conclusion of the Alliance Festival of Culture storyline?
Yes, all the remaining articles in the Alliance Festival of Culture storyline will be published.

Thanks for your understanding and let us know if you have any more questions!

Greetings Commanders,

We would like to thank everyone who has taken the time to voice their concerns and feedback around the reduction of GalNet articles, as well as sharing with us suggestions on ways that we could utilise existing community groups and content to re-introduce them.

We wanted to expand a little more on the details of what led us to this decision. While the previous narratives that were told through GalNet articles gave an insight into what life was like in the 3300's, they also gave players an expectation that these stories were unfolding in-game, and that commanders could fly out to the system and see or even engage with what was happening (which they could not). This, in part, contributed to our reason to shift the focus of GalNet articles to in-game narratives and occurrences, over out-of-game ones.

However, we also want to mention that the narrative/writing team are not solely responsible for writing GalNet articles, but also a number of other duties that contribute to the creation of Elite Dangerous. With the advent of the Fleet Carriers update and the 2020 release, their efforts have been focused on ensuring that all of the text required for it is done in time. Although they are an extremely talented team, they are a small team, which means that we had to prioritise some content over other content, such as GalNet articles. Although we love seeing the incredible content the community news outlets create, editing and implementing it into the game still demands a degree of focus that we do not have currently in scope for the writing team.

We hope that provides some context to why, at the current time, the plans for GalNet articles are unlikely to change. That said, we have passed this feedback on to the team for consideration and will keep you updated if there are any changes.

 

[Old Duck]

Theres nothing wrong with the community nudging FDev on the issue. Why should FDev prioritise it at all unless we can actually demonstrate it's something we really want?

I mean to stay vocal on this: The lore and the opportunity to have an impact on this universe are really the reason I'm here. Others feel the same way, as is demostrated in this thread and others.

The community has obviously been waiting for FDev to bring back some form of Galnet and community goals for a while. Silently waiting? If so then too silent, and FDev might have mistaken that for "Players don't really care."

Well we do care. A lot of us. Galnet is a window into an awesome universe. Community goals were a way for players to meaningfully affect the game. We shouldn't lose them just cos "too hard and stuff." That would be a tragedy.

Sign me up!

 

[Everin Grace]

You're quoting the non answers that we're trying to get answers for.

Yes: We understand they want to go in a different direction.

Can we expect to see more coverage on affairs with major player groups?
This is something we have discussed, and, while we don't have any concrete details for you right now, we fully intend to investigate this further. <- Non answer. Nothing happened.

Are the GalNet 'off-camera' stories getting totally removed, or just reduced?
For now, the plan is to remove them, but we may reassess this decision in the future. We’re always reviewing the changes we make to the game and their impact on the overall player experience, and adapting and adjusting where necessary. <- Non answer. They just killed it off.

Will the amount of GalNet content change? Will it increase or decrease?
It will decrease slightly overall, reflecting the fact that we are refocusing our efforts. <- Non answer. It died. Completely.


The question is how long should the community wait while "these things are discussed and considered" because the longer the community sits and waits silently the longer the devs will think no-one actually cared.

WE CARE! It really sucks that not only did they kill of fiction and player participation pretty much COMPLETELY with at least the suggestion that they were going to revisit it, but the months that have passed without any info (except to say "yeah sorry now its completely off the road-map" have pretty much only confirmed to their player base that they don't care about this stuff any more.

To which the VERY simple answer is:

The COMMUNITY cares. Give it to us before simply killing it off!
It would take less than a day to put a call out to content creators to help define the fiction road-map for the powers.
Less than a week to setup interviews for community content contributors and lore caretakers.
Less than a month to establish a fiction forum where ideas could be submitted and processed and quality controlled.

All FDev would need is a single liaison to the community to vet and approve submissions.

And then we're off. Fiction is back. The lore is back. The universe would be richer and the creative minds at FDev would have an entire community to rap with regarding in game events. We could tie them to Powerplay and the BGS. Every power could have representation.

And then: Community goals - run them through the same group.

This is emergent gameplay at its finest.


The alternative? Kill the frackin thing cos FDev dont have the time to waste.

I know which alternative will keep me playing the game for longer.

 

[Old Duck]

You're quoting the non answers that we're trying to get answers for.

PSA - arguing with that guy is a hamster wheel leading to nowhere. Unless you're in it for the exercise, I recommend getting off before he exhausts you. Don't worry, you are not alone in your thinking, as the last 10 pages of this thread will clearly show.

 

[Old Duck]

DUPE

 

[Thatchinho]

We're aware. This thread discusses the twitter post.

Theres nothing wrong with the community nudging FDev on the issue. Why should FDev prioritise it at all unless we can actually demonstrate it's something we really want?

I mean to stay vocal on this: The lore and the opportunity to have an impact on this universe are really the reason I'm here. Others feel the same way, as is demostrated in this thread and others.

The community has obviously been waiting for FDev to bring back some form of Galnet and community goals for a while. Silently waiting? If so then too silent, and FDev might have mistaken that for "Players don't really car

Well we do care. A lot of us. Galnet is a window into an awesome universe. Community goals were a way for players to meaningfully affect the game. We shouldn't lose them just cos "too hard and stuff." That would be a tragedy.

The current spate of activity on the thread has erupted from something Stephen said in the livestream on Thursday. Lot's of people have been saying that it was news.

The point of the quote was to show that it's been the position since at least the start of March. If everyone's already aware then why are people saying that what Stephen said the other day is new?

 

[Everin Grace]

The current spate of activity on the thread has erupted from something Stephen said in the livestream on Thursday. Lot's of people have been saying that it was news.

The point of the quote was to show that it's been the position since at least the start of March. If everyone's already aware then why are people saying that what Stephen said the other day is new?

Lets take one step back.

Most of the original answers from last year had very circular wording: they were "rethinking". they would "revisit". There would be "less" galnet but "more focused".

So the community waited. I would say it waited very patiently.


Here we are and the word is now "It's all off the roadmap sowwy."

This is NOT what was communicated. Clearly the community had been led to believe that although there would be less fluff there would be more focused material. But there has been nothing and now they seem to be implying that "Nothing" is the new thing.

So now the community is vocal again yes.

It is not because there is new news. It is because the old news is not good enough for those that waited and those that contributed and those that hoped.

Frontier might have mistakenly assumed that because the community had been silent these past months that we were happy with their decisions. NO a lot of people WERE NOT but they had faith that Frontier would figure it out. And thats actually cool: Credit to Frontier for being the sort of dev that its players have faith in, and credit to the community for having that faith.

But simply killing off both Galnet and Community Goals without any explanation other than "sorry too hard" is a BIG mistake and shows that Frontier might begin to misunderstand what their community is here for and expects. They are getting so wrapped up in the tech they are completely forgetting the storytelling.

That they don't even attempt to give it to the ones in the community that could at least TRY to put it to good use for the betterment of the game is a very cynical move, respectfully, and tantamount to a kid that doesnt want to play with his toy but by god you won't either. Well then why the hell did he invite us around to his house in the first place?

I understand you think the last word has been said.
It has not. In the end the community gets the last word by voting with its pockets and its feet.

 

[thistle]

Too bad there isn't anything CURRENT in the game to discuss. If only there was some exciting Interstellar Initiative happening, covered by Galnet....

Sure, I suppose we could complain about all the bugs in the Fleet Carrier update, but I've been complaining about bugs for three years, so this thread is a nice change of pace.

Or do you just want to sit around the campfire singing kumbaya? "Someone's crying, Lord Braben, kumbaya."

It was more a response to your "Space legs ARE on my wishlist, but these are not the legs I'm looking for. "

How do you know, is what I meant. We don't know what legs we are even getting.

I don't really care about galnet, what I don't really get is the hysteria which seems to have switched some people from positive to BURNITALLDOWN on the basis of one comment which imo was Stephen trying to reiterate the current position.

Summer madness, perhaps.

 

[thistle]

The position earlier in the week was - the community is waiting for new info on Odyssey, and people who have carriers continue to play with them and seem to be enjoying them (I dont have one, dont intend getting one).

Today the situation seems to be ARRRGHHGGGG shakes fist sob

Which is a bit weird I think. It's almost enough to make ME hacked off at fdev, even though I don't care lol.