Notice GalNet changes

[Everin Grace]

It was more a response to your "Space legs ARE on my wishlist, but these are not the legs I'm looking for. "

How do you know, is what I meant.

I don't really care about galnet, what I don't really get is the hysteria which seems to have switched some people from positive to BURNITALLDOWN on the basis of one comment which imo was Stephen trying to reiterate the current position.

Summer madness, perhaps.

I think you misunderstand. There are no screamers here. We don't want anything burned down - on the contrary we want what was removed built back up.

Stephen's statement was the first real update since Autumn last year - it came in march and basically he killed off the notion that was originally stated: That Galnet and community goals were being worked on and would come back in a revisited form.

Respectfully to him cos he's a lovely guy: IMO Stephen has been utterly wrong on several things before. He was wrong when he felt that off-camera fiction was detrimental to in-game experience (because players might try to find stuff in-game written about on galnet and be sad when its not there). He severely underestimates the fact that this game caters to SEVERAL audiences simultaneously. Not everyone needs a story. Not everyone needs to PvP. Not everyone needs Lore. Not everyone is happy when features are removed. The failure is in clearly communicating to which audience a part is being addressed (its perfectly reasonable to put "fiction - no game elements involved" in a story disclaimer and still write a brilliant story.

His community wants these features and we ask him to fight harder for them for us, and have a conversation with us about why they are so important.

FDev performed an amputation of what for many were core features and important features of the game.

It is perfectly reasonable for us now to tell FDev: Guys you made a mistake. Please rethink it or let the community have a go at fixing it.

That is not hysteria. That is players looking for the immersion and involvement that came with the game they were originally playing, and hoping for the emergent gaming experience we know EliteD can be.

 

[Everin Grace]

The position earlier in the week was - the community is waiting for new info on Odyssey, and people who have carriers continue to play with them and seem to be enjoying them (I dont have one, dont intend getting one).

Today the situation seems to be ARRRGHHGGGG shakes fist sob

Which is a bit weird I think. It's almost enough to make ME hacked off at fdev, even though I don't care lol.

This is rather dramatic and not whats happening. I don't think it makes sense to amplify the situation.

The players have patiently waited for news about HOW galnet was going to be improved, as was originally described. After a long loud silence it has been stated they are killing it off. A large part of the community doesn't want this and tries to (reasonably with an adult grown up voice) explain that that feature and the connected features serve a real purpose that the game will be much poorer without. We could even sit down and probably work out a wayy to take over some of the more tedious / time consuming aspects of it.

One of the original premises of this game, and the reason Community Goals were created in the first place, was to give players a chance to immerse themselves in the universe and actually affect change: make a difference in an otherwise vast and lonely verse.
There's no doubt that feature was underutilised and led to some stress for FDev, but the concept is awesome and arguably will become even more essential when spacelegs come out.

So NOW is the time to be reintroducing it. Not half a year or a year after Odyssey - because then frankly it will be too late imho. Create the tools so that when the new immersive roles come - players will be able to use them.

The last alternative before they simply kill anything completely is that if they don't have the resources / people / storytellers to do it then AT LEAST have a chat with the community and find out if something can be done that way. The conversation, if nothing else, would be taken as a show of respect to those players that care about it, rather than simply telling us that they have decided to kill off a key part of the game for "reasons."

 

[Old Duck]

It was more a response to your "Space legs ARE on my wishlist, but these are not the legs I'm looking for. "

How do you know, is what I meant. We don't know what legs we are even getting.

"These" being how space legs have been described by all the experts (ymmv) who have dissected Frontier's posts to conclude we won't be able to walk around our ships, stations, outposts, bases, generation ships, etc. Instead it'll be (according to the speculation I've read) Battlefield Elite, which isn't my primary interest in legs.

I don't really care about galnet,

Bingo! But many of us do. I don't care about Powerplay, but I'm not going into every thread about the topic, trying to talk Rubbernuke down from a cliff. If the dude's upset because something precious to him is being neglected, then he has a right to be upset and express himself.

The position earlier in the week was - the community is waiting for new info on Odyssey, and people who have carriers continue to play with them and seem to be enjoying them (I dont have one, dont intend getting one).

Today the situation seems to be ARRRGHHGGGG shakes fist sob

These things are not mutually exclusive. I am enjoying my new carrier AND shaking my fist and sobbing, LOL. Carrier for exploration = great. The declaration that Galnet, Community Goals, and Interstellar Initiatives have been totally removed from the Elite Dangerous roadmap = TERRIBLE!

Also, the declaration "Don't expect any part of Odyssey to support VR" = TERRIBLE as well. I happily proclaim these decisions as terrible from the deck of my lovely and useful Fleet Carrier

ps - best to complain now while there's still a chance to change Frontier's mind than after-the-fact when it will be too late.

 

[Old Duck]

I don't really care about galnet,

FWIW, I don't REALLY care about Galnet either. What I REALLY care about is Interstellar Initiatives and well-done Community Goals (like the one where we had to rescue escape pods being scooped up by Thargoids). Galnet is just a portal into these wonderful Lore-driven, community-centric events that I really miss. Galnet is the gas gauge showing Frontier's investment in the current Elite Dangerous Galaxy, and right now (and supposedly forevermore) it's on E.

 

[thistle]

"These" being how space legs have been described by all the experts (ymmv) who have dissected Frontier's posts to conclude we won't be able to walk around our ships, stations, outposts, bases, generation ships, etc. Instead it'll be (according to the speculation I've read) Battlefield Elite, which isn't my primary interest in legs.

... or mine but it's true to say we just don't know yet. I remain hopeful.

Bingo! But many of us do. I don't care about Powerplay, but I'm not going into every thread about the topic, trying to talk Rubbernuke down from a cliff. If the dude's upset because something precious to him is being neglected, then he has a right to be upset and express himself.

I'd prefer galnet, CGs, II's, like you, but my point is a) I don't think things have changed since the middle of last week, b) we don't know what Odyssey contains. This may all be irrelevant when Odyssey arrives, we don't know.

Similarly, the future of Powerplay hasn't changed. It may be cuffed, but it's not changed this week.

These things are not mutually exclusive. I am enjoying my new carrier AND shaking my fist and sobbing, LOL. Carrier for exploration = great. The declaration that Galnet, Community Goals, and Interstellar Initiatives have been totally removed from the Elite Dangerous roadmap = TERRIBLE!

Also, the declaration "Don't expect any part of Odyssey to support VR" = TERRIBLE as well. I happily proclaim these decisions as terrible from the deck of my lovely and useful Fleet Carrier

ps - best to complain now while there's still a chance to change Frontier's mind than after-the-fact when it will be too late.

Fair enough!

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Didn't care about the FCs, don't honestly care about spacelegs though that may change if the implementation warrants it.

I originally wanted an offline, solo only version which this is more and more feeling like while still being online.

I accepted that ED was an MMO and tailored my expectations to that and now I'm watching what passed for content being drained away. Galnet to me was effective, it helped make the game feel like things could happen, were happening and that I might get caught up in them.

We'll have to change that old description now to "A mile wide but only half an inch deep"

I honestly believe its not a case of "We don't have the resources to do this" but "We don't want to bother to do this". It may not be but that is the message that I am receiving.

With this kind of messaging and engagement from FD it reduces the likelihood of me splashing any cash on the game.

Most definitely disappointed.

Centimeter, deep?

 

[thistle]

FWIW, I don't REALLY care about Galnet either. What I REALLY care about is Interstellar Initiatives and well-done Community Goals (like the one where we had to rescue escape pods being scooped up by Thargoids). Galnet is just a portal into these wonderful Lore-driven, community-centric events that I really miss. Galnet is the gas gauge showing Frontier's investment in the current Elite Dangerous Galaxy, and right now (and supposedly forevermore) it's on E.

I would hope that there's a plan here for community in-game engagement, the very fact we have explicit mention of "social hubs" in the limited amount of info so far suggests ... something. I don't really know what lol but that might be designed to be a replacement/better system. Peopl complain about the lack of player interaction other than ganking, it sounds like social hubs will be directly aimed at that. Where will CGs and IIs fit in after that? This may have been considered.

We just don't know. If Odyssey is just a wee walkabout addon then fdev WILL have problems. Right now the explosion (warning - possible exaggeration) over this one single comment is a smidge over the top, imo

 

[Ralph Vargr]

The current spate of activity on the thread has erupted from something Stephen said in the livestream on Thursday. Lot's of people have been saying that it was news.

The point of the quote was to show that it's been the position since at least the start of March. If everyone's already aware then why are people saying that what Stephen said the other day is new?

Because, people get information differently, and there are certain pain thresholds to be breached, dear sir.

 

[thistle]

This is rather dramatic and not whats happening. I don't think it makes sense to amplify the situation.

Dramatic perhaps, but this is a thread where a single comment from one CM off the cuff saying what we already knew has caused lots of drama. Drama everywhere.

 

[Vetinari]

I do want GalNet and all its associated fluff back, I dont want to join the hysteria that its all falling apart....and this time it really really is not like the 100 other times its been proclaimed.

I get the impression that Odyssey is much more personal and perhaps team story driven than ED is now and thats where the writers are, I hope so.

ED had a minimum 10 year background storyline when it started, afaik its going on almost exactly as planned....the stuff not planned was the level of player buy-in and involvement and diversity and RP and lore lovers who all have different wish lists and thats what they find almost impossible to deal with. FWIW I can understand DB being a bit over-protective over Elite in general due to the nonsense and the court case. Hence the reluctance to allow the Community in more and the reluctance to sanctify EDDB, EDSM, Coriolis, Sag Eye et al.

Is part if a CM role to Manage the Community, Manage the Community's expectations by feeding back decisions (in which case they need to be clear and precise and pre-thought out), or, Manage the Community feedback and represent it to the relevant people, or all 3?

P.S. Not on the roadmap can basically mean, Ive got a hundred other things to do first right now stop bugging me with that.

 

[Old Duck]

I would hope that there's a plan here for community in-game engagement, the very fact we have explicit mention of "social hubs" in the limited amount of info so far suggests ... something. I don't really know what lol but that might be designed to be a replacement/better system. Peopl complain about the lack of player interaction other than ganking, it sounds like social hubs will be directly aimed at that. Where will CGs and IIs fit in after that? This may have been considered.

Just a reminder, Odyssey is a DLC, and one that won't support VR at that. Does that mean that in order to to participate in any in-game community activities, I'll have to buy this DLC and hang up my Rift S? That seems screwballs, since I was happily able to do community things in the game I already paid for (and in VR) until Frontier pulled the plug.

Now if parts of Odyssey are back-ported into Horizons (just like parts of Horizons were back-ported into the base game), and this includes community events, then okay. I'll be the first to admit that CGs and IIs were very limited by their "deliver cargo and collect bounties / bonds" as the only mechanism to achieve the end goal.

All that said, it's pretty sad that the game I bought will have been DOWNGRADED for over a year by the time Odyssey is finally released. It's like Elephant Butt Leather all over again, except now it's Elephant Butt LORE!!!!

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I do want GalNet and all its associated fluff back, I dont want to join the hysteria that its all falling apart....and this time it really really is not like the 100 other times its been proclaimed.

I get the impression that Odyssey is much more personal and perhaps team story driven than ED is now and thats where the writers are, I hope so.

ED had a minimum 10 year background storyline when it started, afaik its going on almost exactly as planned....the stuff not planned was the level of player buy-in and involvement and diversity and RP and lore lovers who all have different wish lists and thats what they find almost impossible to deal with. FWIW I can understand DB being a bit over-protective over Elite in general due to the nonsense and the court case. Hence the reluctance to allow the Community in more and the reluctance to sanctify EDDB, EDSM, Coriolis, Sag Eye et al.

Is part if a CM role to Manage the Community, Manage the Community's expectations by feeding back decisions (in which case they need to be clear and precise and pre-thought out), or, Manage the Community feedback and represent it to the relevant people, or all 3?

P.S. Not on the roadmap can basically mean, Ive got a hundred other things to do first right now stop bugging me with that.

They are ablative armor. They get worn down, and replaced.

 

[Randomkeyhits]

Centimeter, deep?

Possilby, thats even shallower.

 

[Thatchinho]

Lets take one step back.

Most of the original answers from last year had very circular wording: they were "rethinking". they would "revisit". There would be "less" galnet but "more focused".

So the community waited. I would say it waited very patiently.


Here we are and the word is now "It's all off the roadmap sowwy."

This is NOT what was communicated. Clearly the community had been led to believe that although there would be less fluff there would be more focused material. But there has been nothing and now they seem to be implying that "Nothing" is the new thing.

So now the community is vocal again yes.

It is not because there is new news. It is because the old news is not good enough for those that waited and those that contributed and those that hoped.

Frontier might have mistakenly assumed that because the community had been silent these past months that we were happy with their decisions. NO a lot of people WERE NOT but they had faith that Frontier would figure it out. And thats actually cool: Credit to Frontier for being the sort of dev that its players have faith in, and credit to the community for having that faith.

But simply killing off both Galnet and Community Goals without any explanation other than "sorry too hard" is a BIG mistake and shows that Frontier might begin to misunderstand what their community is here for and expects. They are getting so wrapped up in the tech they are completely forgetting the storytelling.

That they don't even attempt to give it to the ones in the community that could at least TRY to put it to good use for the betterment of the game is a very cynical move, respectfully, and tantamount to a kid that doesnt want to play with his toy but by god you won't either. Well then why the hell did he invite us around to his house in the first place?

I understand you think the last word has been said.
It has not. In the end the community gets the last word by voting with its pockets and its feet.

Yeah, agreed on taking a step back. I think we've just got very different understandings of what the current situation is (and how things got to where they are). I think we're actually on a fairly similar page on what we'd like the situation to be.

I mean the only point I was actually making to start with was that what was said on Thursday was just the same thing they've been saying for a while now.

It's all gone off on a tangent.

Anyway, FWIW, I hope this hasn't come across as me saying that you shouldn't say that you want to see Galnet and all that stuff return. If it has then I apologise. There's a lot of stuff of that nature I would like to see back or have better versions of provided. I've got the info I need to be in a reasonable state of confidence, but it's obviously not the same for everyone, and me having the info I need shouldn't act as a barrier to you getting the info you need. Sorry if it's seemed like I'm trying to block you getting the info you want, and I hope FD can provide some improved clarity on what the situation is and on the future plans (and that there's positive news therein).

 

[Everin Grace]

Anyway, FWIW, I hope this hasn't come across as me saying that you shouldn't say that you want to see Galnet and all that stuff return. If it has then I apologise. There's a lot of stuff of that nature I would like to see back or have better versions of provided. I've got the info I need to be in a reasonable state of confidence, but it's obviously not the same for everyone, and me having the info I need shouldn't act as a barrier to you getting the info you need. Sorry if it's seemed like I'm trying to block you getting the info you want, and I hope FD can provide some improved clarity on what the situation is and on the future plans (and that there's positive news therein).

Absolutely no offense taken! We're adults conversing rationally and you know this is a great thing about the community: the opportunity for rational mature discussion. That alone I think is part of the evidence FDev should consider when deciding whether to involve their community in certain aspects of the emergent game-play that it started with and should continue to have.

 

[Thatchinho]

Because, people get information differently, and there are certain pain thresholds to be breached, dear sir.

Wise words, which are very true.

Hopefully it's something that the new lead CM has on his radar and is factoring into the plans he's working on for the CM team.

 

[Thatchinho]

Absolutely no offense taken! We're adults conversing rationally and you know this is a great thing about the community: the opportunity for rational mature discussion. That alone I think is part of the evidence FDev should consider when deciding whether to involve their community in certain aspects of the emergent game-play that it started with and should continue to have.

Good to hear, thanks! It's a bit of a general apology to others in the thread as well. It can be a fine line between putting forward your own viewpoint and shutting down that of others. I wouldn't want to stray into the latter. FD do need to hear all the different viewpoints.

 

[Banger_uk]

interstellar space radio stations

 

[Ouberos]

Remember this? ...... Should we give it back ?

View attachment 180630

Or .... should we fly a fleet of these as a protest into the next Livestream?

Ive been using that paint job for some time now as an ironic homage to Galnet. I also have the Bridging the Gap Decal on display too because the forum vote was legendary gameplay.

 

[RooksBailey]

The problem I have with this is that Odyssey is DLC. Imagine Skyrim (the base game) having content and lore removed, forcing people to buy Dawnguard to experience any of this. Or ESO, or any game with DLC. The only way this would be acceptable is if the content that Odyssey provides that replaces Galnet* is backported into the base game of Elite.

* Galnet primarily being the communication tool for Interstellar Initiatives, Community Goals, and "cool stuff" to be found in the game.

I agree. It's not that I like the idea, just that, well, if that's the best we can do, I'll take it as I really would like to keep playing Elite in full, even if that means I have to put up with Frontier constantly reshuffling the deck for reasons that only seem to make sense to them.

It really is a mess. Overall, Elite is in a better condition content-wise than it was at launch, but Frontier has made so many bizarre development decisions over the years that the game is often more frustrating than enjoyable. Sometimes I find myself dreaming that CCP or Gaijin took over the title's development. It's a pleasant thought...