Can objects between stars be reached?

[ChipStar65]

While exploring the area around the Cave Nebula I noticed two dark, globular objects silhouetted against the nebula:

After mapping the system I decided to try and reach these dark objects, which could be proto-stars or (if close enough) proto-planets. I could not locate them on the Galaxy Map, using another star system as a means of searching:

I started from CAVE SECTOR DL-Y D33, where I first noticed the objects, and found CAVE SECTOR FB-X C1-5 to be the closest star that lies roughly on the line of sight to the objects. Since the latter of these two stars is located on the other side of the nebula from the former, at about 14.6ly distance, I figured the objects lay somewhere between them. However, searching the GalMap showed nothing comparable.

These images were made at a distance of about 0.12ly (~3.8Mls) from the starting point system:

yet there has been no detectable change in apparent size or separation due to parallax of the two objects compared to an image made at around 3x that distance.

I'm not deeply familiar with how ED sets up its visuals upon entering a system, but I'm wondering if it these objects are unattainable because they are part of a skybox the game sets up upon entering a system, or would patience and enough fuel allow me to reach them flying in SC, since they cannot be jumped to? It is possible another star might be a somewhat closer starting point of I can determine if the objects are even visible from that star, but if it turns out they are just skybox artifacts, I won't make the effort.

PS. I have determined my Dolphin's top SC velocity is 2001c, which makes for quite a space odyssey .

 

[ChloeDB]

no sadly, not to break immersion or anything but each system I believe is its own "instance" you can fly to the edge of that instance but your readout is infinite distance from what I've read (not tried myself). this means though that the space between stars. technically does not exist (yet).

 

[ChipStar65]

no sadly, not to break immersion or anything but each system I believe is its own "instance" you can fly to the edge of that instance but your readout is infinite distance from what I've read (not tried myself). this means though that the space between stars. technically does not exist (yet).

Yes, I am rapidly (well, not so rapidly, even at 2001c) coming to that conclusion. I am now around half a light year out from the starting point and still no parallax change in these objects' separation, which indicates to me they are at effectively infinite distance, i.e., a skybox. It is sad, but at least I noticed them .

 

[ChipStar65]

Turns out the half a light year in supercruise does wonders for your paint job...

 

[Caramel Clown]

They are just dark sectors or nebulae, probably hundreds if not thousands of lightyears away. You can reach them, you just need to find them on the map. But not by flying between systems. Systems only load on jumps.

 

[ChipStar65]

They are just dark sectors or nebulae, probably hundreds if not thousands of lightyears away. You can reach them, you just need to find them on the map. But not by flying between systems. Systems only load on jumps.

They could not be that far away because they are seen as foreground objects against a brighter nebula only a handful of light years away. I did check along the line of sight for any distant objects that might be causing this visual effect but there was nothing. Even small dark nebulae show on the GalMap (see the region around the Coal Sack, which from my ship was completely masked by the brightness of the Cave nebula) and they are rarely as near-perfectly round and compact as these two. That's one of the reasons I wanted to explore them close up, but unfortunately not possible given the way the game works.

Herbig-Haro objects are early protostars/protosystems shrouded in dust as they collapse, and can be quite close to spherical, so I though they might be something of this sort, but their absence from the GalMap made that unlikely. I have flagged an HHO to observe later on, it will be interesting to see how the game presents this kind of object.

 

[ChloeDB]

it's also possible. as sad as it sounds. they are sky box artifacts where the wrap didn't quite line up with the world. so in essence your seeing the mouldline of the universe

 

[CMDR Yates]

They could not be that far away because they are seen as foreground objects against a brighter nebula only a handful of light years away.

Not to burst your bubble but I believe the order in which nebulae are drawn on the skybox has been slightly broken (or at least glitchy) since 1.0. Haven't been at any nebulae recently, so I don't know if it's been fixed, but it's such a long-standing minor issue that I doubt it.

In short, you will often (not always) see distant clouds and nebulae cleanly through what should be an obscuring nebula in the foreground.

 

[ChipStar65]

Not to burst your bubble but I believe the order in which nebulae are drawn on the skybox has been broken since 1.0. Haven't been at any nebulae recently, so I don't know if it's been fixed, but it's such a long-standing minor issue that I doubt it.

In short, you will often (not always) see distant clouds and nebulae cleanly through what should be an obscuring nebula in the foreground.

Busting your bubble in return, as I said, I searched for such distant nebulae possibly showing through, but none were anywhere near my line of sight, and as I also said, the nearby Cave nebula does obscure the distant Coal Sack dark nebula and its associated smaller dark nebulae. I did notice that the distant North America nebula does show through the nearer Cave nebula, at least at the periphery, but it didn't look like a draw order issue as much as choice of how overlapping emissive nebulae are merged. But dark nebulae like the Coal Sack were obscured. The Cave also fully obscured the bright galactic plane when looking though it, so its opacity to that kind of emission effect is inarguable.

 

[CMDR Yates]

Busting your bubble in return, as I said, I searched for such distant nebulae possibly showing through, but none were anywhere near my line of sight, and as I also said, the nearby Cave nebula does obscure the distant Coal Sack dark nebula and its associated smaller dark nebulae. I did notice that the distant North America nebula does show through the nearer Cave nebula, at least at the periphery, but it didn't look like a draw order issue as much as choice of how overlapping emissive nebulae are merged. But dark nebulae like the Coal Sack were obscured. The Cave also fully obscured the bright galactic plane when looking though it, so its opacity to that kind of emission effect is inarguable.

I read all that, I still think it's possible this is something beyond the nebula. In my experience, the draw order is not obviously consistent, so I wouldn't say it's "inarguable". Also, I've seen distant colourful nebulae appear as a dark object against the galaxy background when at an extreme distance.

Edit: In the direction you're pointed, these could be a glitched view of the Iris Nebula and the Cepheus Dark Region through the Cave Nebula. The object on the left has the same slightly elongated shape as Cepheus Dark Region, and the Isis Nebula is spheroid and should appear to the right of it.

 

[CMDR Yates]

Double post

 

[ChipStar65]

I read all that, I still think it's possible this is something beyond the nebula. In my experience, the draw order is not obviously consistent, so I wouldn't say it's "inarguable". Also, I've seen distant colourful nebulae appear as a dark object against the galaxy background when at an extreme distance.

H II regions, the "distant colorful nebulae" that you mention, are regions of both gas (which glows when excited by energetic stars but is otherwise dark and opaque to many frequencies) and dust (which reflects the light of nearby stars). Thus when seen against a bright background such as the galactic plane, the nebula can also obscure, an effect more pronounced when the otherwise bright galaxy is also distant. H II regions (another example is the Orion nebula) appear in the midst of molecular clouds that can contain a variety of ionized and molecular gases, and which if not illuminated by the bright young stars embedded in the clouds, tend to absorb light and thus obscure the background.

The many views of the North America nebula illustrate this on a much more local basis, as the darker non-luminous cloud formations intrude upon and obscure the brighter regions where stars have recently formed. It makes for quite a show (see https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/screenie-s-v2.424051/post-8574985)

 

[ChipStar65]

Here's the full view of the GalMap looking back toward the galactic plane:

Note that the Cave nebula from this angle has both bright and dark features, both of which obscure the view of the bright galactic plane. However, at the left below center is the North America Nebula, which from this angle is also quite dark but does show through the edges of the Cave nebula. Emissive objects such as the NA nebula seem to have a different setting as graphical objects that affects how they appear behind other emissive objects. It often looks as if they cut a "hole" in the foreground object and show through more clearly. NGC 7822 and its cluster of type O stars is another good example of this.This is apparently not the case with dark (opaque) nebulae object like the Coal Sack, which is completely obscured by the Cave nebula in the image above.

 

[ChipStar65]

Here's a shot similar to the GalMap image just above but from my ship. I am situated very close to the Cave Nebula, just inside its outer fringes on the side away from the galactic center. The shot is looking at the galactic center with the NA nebula as its POI. I've enhanced the image to make the extent of the Cave more visible.

Hey, where did the galaxy go? Well, I'm close enough to Cave for it to completely obscure the "Milky Way." It's a very wide angle shot, the Elephant's Trunk Nebula in lower left being distorted somewhat by the wide lens setting. All features of the central galaxy, including dark nebulae which would otherwise be visible, are obscured. But the NA Nebula is quite visible, as it is an emissive nebula and how such objects are combined with other emissive objects like the Cave is different, so it looks as if it's appearing in front of the Cave. This could be mistaken for a draw order error, but is more likely a graphical combination mode giving less-than-realistic results, since it is consistent across all such situations.

 

[Sapyx]

yet there has been no detectable change in apparent size or separation due to parallax of the two objects compared to an image made at around 3x that distance.

I'm not deeply familiar with how ED sets up its visuals upon entering a system, but I'm wondering if it these objects are unattainable because they are part of a skybox the game sets up upon entering a system, or would patience and enough fuel allow me to reach them flying in SC, since they cannot be jumped to?

The appearance of the skybox is calculated during the hyperspace loading screen when you enter the system. It remains unchanged while you are "in that system", even if you fly very far away from the star, so you will never see interstellar parallax effects while Supercruising. If there's another star within easy supercruise range, you cannot supercruise to that star - the system assets and skybox from that star never load.

Likewise, if there's another star that's just out of range of your current FSD, supercruising towards that star will not bring you within range. Jump ranges are calculated from the star's positions on the galaxy map and as far as the galaxy map is concerned, you can never leave a star and drift off into interstellar space. So you can never visit "dark systems", assuming such systems exist on the galaxy map, by supercruising to them.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Those are indeed xxxxLY distant Nebulae.

The Game Engine doesn't properly render those, dependent on DIstance.
So it's a very normal sight to see such background Objects being merged with foreground Objects.

In short : nothing to see there.

PS.
You can confirm the exact Nebulae you're seeing there with the Galaxy Map. Search ~2000-3500LY away and you''ll find them.

btw. when certain Nebulae are at borderline Distance of becoming part of the Skybox, they can often appear as odd, round balls that stand out just a little bit from other Stars.
If you travel towards them, they'll eventually and suddenly render completely different.

 

[CMDR Yates]

You can confirm the exact Nebulae you're seeing there with the Galaxy Map. Search ~2000-3500LY away and you''ll find them.

Iris Nebula and the Cepheus Dark Region, I'm about 80% sure.

I'm out at Sag A, but just checking on the galaxy map, they seem to be in the right direction from the Cave nebula, the right size, the right shape, and about the right distance.

 

[duckofdeath]

It would be neat if they'd let us super cruise to anywhere come the next season. The change to the game design shouldn't be that complicated, I think? The background render might need a recalculation every 10 minutes and the background instance transitions ought to be doable. It would open up the possibility for real rogue planets and other oddities floating around in the deep black. How about a mission to the Oumuamua asteroid? Let us "find out" what it really is?

 

[ChipStar65]

Iris Nebula and the Cepheus Dark Region, I'm about 80% sure.

I'm out at Sag A, but just checking on the galaxy map, they seem to be in the right direction from the Cave nebula, the right size, the right shape, and about the right distance.

Please provide galactic coordinates for those objects so I can check them out. I'm currently close to the system where I found the dark objects of the OP and can check line of sight a lot more easily than you can from Sag A*.

Addendum: I found those Dark Regions and will test out the line of sight sometime tomorrow.

 

[ChipStar65]

Iris Nebula and the Cepheus Dark Region, I'm about 80% sure.

Be 100% sure Excellent call -- my line of sight search using the GalMap missed these entirely.

I selected systems near the centers of Iris and the CDR and the selection reticles nail the dark objects perfectly (photo enhanced for clarity). As further confirmation (and because I was curious) I did the same thing from another point in the Cave Nebula where the objects were viewed through a thinner and less emissive portion of the starcloud:

They were much more difficult to see in this case due to lack of contrast (the inset circles show the circled areas unenhanced) and likely would never be noticed if not specifically looking for them.

As a sort of control case I also targeted a system in the Coal Sack dark nebula -- larger but about 3x the distance away than Iris and CDR -- and even when enhanced (inset) it cannot be seen at all. This is why I doubted that the first two objects were distant dark nebulae -- inconsistency in treatment of similar objects.

All three of these objects are "dark regions" in the game, so I'm at a loss to understand why they are not all treated the same by the skybox-generating algos. It can't be random as the two smaller objects can be seen from different systems and are always consistent in how they appear, and it can't be a matter of graphics combination method since they are the same kind of object.

As a galactic explorer it's disappointing to learn that the game engine is prone to creating mirages. C'est la vie in ED