VR support 'not at launch' for Odyssey

[VR Dextrovix]

If VR isn't supported at launch does Fdev understand the review backlash that will happen.

According to some trolls on this thread, that'd only cause a potentially 2% negative shift by VR users!

But, I do think however that the lack of VR support will affect reviews. Many people will just purchase Odyssey with the expectation they can use VR, because they did previously.

"Elite Dangerous was built from the ground up to support VR", that's the sort of statement Frontier made at release. And they used VR to promote their game, I remember when I was at EGX and the Vive headset was being released that year, and a Frontier dev with ED had one of their booths to showcase VR, and I tried it with a pre-release headset and spoke to him about how advanced it all was (wish I could remember his name!).

I cannot understand why Frontier think their won't be a sizable backlash, whether reviews or refunds by disgruntled users.

Frontier need to reconsider their stance, particularly as they were such advocates of VR early on.

 

[VR Murgle]

But it’s all academic. Your whole anti-motion-controller stance really is peeing in the wind for now, because the market has adopted them wholesale, and made them the norm for big ticket titles. Even for PSVR, where they don’t come as standard.

Weird as it is, this is the world we’re currently living in

I'm not anti-motion-controller; I'm fine with VR games supporting them and if you enjoy using them that's great, personally I don't see the appeal (in most games...) What bothers me is the lack of gamepad support, as I mentioned before I have limited space so I don't want to be waving my arms about when I can't see where they're going cuz I might break something (my hands being the most likely candidates). I'm also not convinced there's a large(r) audience for "motion controller gameplay" and worry it might become a barrier to gaining a larger audience.

I think by this time there are more VR gamers "trying to make" games let them stand up than the other way around... See what happens any time someone releases a game where standing roomscale either isn't supported or is poorly implemented.

Seated play has the obvious problem, how do you turn without relying on buttons and joysticks? The answer is you don't. It's like driving around in a wheelchair. Constraining and unimmersive! It's always a compromise in terms of immersion, even if you can ignore the dissonance between you being seated and your avatar standing.

I have no issue with this, I'm perfectly ok with buttons and joysticks. I bought Subnautica for VR and played through it several times with my trusty Xbox one elite controller and it was glorious.

Motion controls outside VR had the problem of connecting between what you saw on the screen and what your hands were doing. The visuals were 2D, while the controls were 3D. They were difficult to use for anything that requires accuracy and thus largely useless for any non-casual type of game. VR solves this with 1:1 connection between the visuals and physical space. The likes of Wiimote and Kinect were ahead of their time, but display technology was lagging behind. The only use case for motion controls that existed before VR and actually worked well, that I can think of, were good old light guns. And that's because it basically boiled down to a simple 2D pointing device.

Oh I think you're right I do think there's a demand from a lot of VR gamers for motion controller support, so much so that those of us who want gamepad support rarely get it. However when I see a VR gamer on youtube proudly demonstrating how this "asome" VR shooter allows you to slot a new magazine into your pistol I can't help noticing how crappy it looks in game and how IRL it pretty much boils down to banging to pieces of plastic together.

Lets face it boneworks is only "amazing" because it's VR and I suspect Alyx would be perfectly playable with a gamepad.

Yay I can throw stuff! And how long until the novelty wears off? (Ok that last bit might be my ADD, I get bored quickly)

 

[Red Rocket]

I don’t understand the concern over types of controllers and VR. Fdev still must configure X-box type controllers and keyboard for space legs so no big deal I can just use an X box type in VR.

If you are playing in Flat Pancake mode with a Hotas set-up and go into Space legs you still have to move your Hotas and use a keyboard or X-box type controller, so what’s the big deal with switching in VR.

I would think that not many if any VR users are using their VR controllers to play Elite now, Mostly are using Hotas or controllers now anyways.

 

[VR Golgot]

Fdev still must configure X-box type controllers and keyboard for space legs so no big deal I can just use an X box type in VR.

You may like the proposal in my signature then

 

[jojon]

To be frank, given the extent to which their general interest has ever manifested in action, I have never expected motion controls from FDev anyway - not for cockpit, and not for walking about, which is why speculation about there being a desire to "do it right" rings rather hollow in my ears... :/

 

[epoch5]

I use a warthog right now but could quite easily shift to an xbox controller for space legs all in VR.

 

[Cpt.Badger]

I don’t understand the concern over types of controllers and VR. Fdev still must configure X-box type controllers and keyboard for space legs so no big deal I can just use an X box type in VR.

If you are playing in Flat Pancake mode with a Hotas set-up and go into Space legs you still have to move your Hotas and use a keyboard or X-box type controller, so what’s the big deal with switching in VR.

I would think that not many if any VR users are using their VR controllers to play Elite now, Mostly are using Hotas or controllers now anyways.

Precisely this. Controls are NOT an issue at all. None. Nada. Zilch.

 

[Zorvan]

All this entitled whining by an overly loud yet minuscule minority is currently the best and most likely reason, among dozens, most companies ignore VR.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

All this entitled whining by an overly loud yet minuscule minority is currently the best and most likely reason, among dozens, most companies ignore VR.

Aww, poor little you.

 

[VR Golgot]

All this entitled whining by an overly loud yet minuscule minority is currently the best and most likely reason, among dozens, most companies ignore VR.

Hey Zorvan, I have an entitled thread which threatens the dev resourcing of honest PC gamers. Click the image in my signature and complain about it!

 

[kilvenny]

Just checking in to see if there has been any change - and surprise, surprise there isn't. I don't know about entitlement, but the announcement has certainly had it's impact. I am approaching my longest hiatus from the game since beta and I am not missing it. My forum browsing has massively reduced and it feels like I am moving on to another galaxy and my Steam purchases have gone up.

 

[VR Golgot]

There have always been other games kil.

Come recommend things in my VR reviews thread

 

[Craith]

snip

"Elite Dangerous was built from the ground up to support VR", that's the sort of statement Frontier made at release. And they used VR to promote their game, I remember when I was at EGX and the Vive headset was being released that year, and a Frontier dev with ED had one of their booths to showcase VR, and I tried it with a pre-release headset and spoke to him about how advanced it all was (wish I could remember his name!).

I cannot understand why Frontier think their won't be a sizable backlash, whether reviews or refunds by disgruntled users.

Frontier need to reconsider their stance, particularly as they were such advocates of VR early on.

This. When I bought the game "built to support VR", I expected any updates of it to also include this option. I had a good time in Elite, and got good value for my money, even if you include the LEP I bought for which I got a total of one expansion. I got a new computer + VR for Elite. I tried lots of other games in VR, but none keep me interested as much as Elite, and since I have VR playing on a screen can hardly motivate me anymore, except for social reasons.

I just feel like I was lied to (even if that may not be technically true in a lawyer definition), and this more than anything else kills my enthusiasm for Elite. I played nearly daily in the past, now it is a few times per week, and shorter sessions. With nothing to work towards to, it is just enjoying flying around in VR (and the VR space flying experience is still the best I know of, which makes them abandoning it even harder to swallow).

My interest for Odyssey is next to zero, I will get it on my main account due to the LEP, I will try it out and also continue to play the game in Horizons, but it does mean that Elite for me is finally there where a few people saw it already years ago - maintenance mode. No significant new things will be added to the game I love (which is Elite in VR), and the outlook for further expansions is grim - adding VR back in later will be harder the more additional things not taking VR into consideration (UI, forced animations, ...) are added, and supporting multiple branches is not efficient for the codebase, especially if the new engine is significant different to the current one.

I still hope that the new engine is more similar to the current one, and we will get full VR in Odyssey (seated is fine for me - this is a game about space ships, not a survival game where you can also move around with spaceships like NMS).

No, I won't quit, so nobody can have my stuff, I will just play less and won't spend money.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

This. When I bought the game "built to support VR", I expected any updates of it to also include this option. I had a good time in Elite, and got good value for my money, even if you include the LEP I bought for which I got a total of one expansion. I got a new computer + VR for Elite. I tried lots of other games in VR, but none keep me interested as much as Elite, and since I have VR playing on a screen can hardly motivate me anymore, except for social reasons.

I just feel like I was lied to (even if that may not be technically true in a lawyer definition), and this more than anything else kills my enthusiasm for Elite. I played nearly daily in the past, now it is a few times per week, and shorter sessions. With nothing to work towards to, it is just enjoying flying around in VR (and the VR space flying experience is still the best I know of, which makes them abandoning it even harder to swallow).

My interest for Odyssey is next to zero, I will get it on my main account due to the LEP, I will try it out and also continue to play the game in Horizons, but it does mean that Elite for me is finally there where a few people saw it already years ago - maintenance mode. No significant new things will be added to the game I love (which is Elite in VR), and the outlook for further expansions is grim - adding VR back in later will be harder the more additional things not taking VR into consideration (UI, forced animations, ...) are added, and supporting multiple branches is not efficient for the codebase, especially if the new engine is significant different to the current one.

I still hope that the new engine is more similar to the current one, and we will get full VR in Odyssey (seated is fine for me - this is a game about space ships, not a survival game where you can also move around with spaceships like NMS).

No, I won't quit, so nobody can have my stuff, I will just play less and won't spend money.

Pretty much my view. I came to play last night and just thought what is the point?..... FD have dangled carrots for years such as the iceworlds to try to keep is invested...... And it work -just about (tho for me this is almost solely because of VR. My ship is out in the black I was making notes of 1st discoveres that I can land on (at the time it was a leap of faith we would get atmospherics) but now that entire gameplay motivation is gone unless FD change their minds.
So I played XCOM2 instead.also no VR but I never expected that in VR (tho would be cool perhaps)

I have ordered a Reverb G2 but I seriously am questioning of it is worth it. 2500 hrs.of ED all on VR since 2014. I dare say ALL my other VR combined totals less than 250 hrs

 

[VR jefranklin18]

This. When I bought the game "built to support VR", I expected any updates of it to also include this option. I had a good time in Elite, and got good value for my money, even if you include the LEP I bought for which I got a total of one expansion. I got a new computer + VR for Elite. I tried lots of other games in VR, but none keep me interested as much as Elite, and since I have VR playing on a screen can hardly motivate me anymore, except for social reasons.

I just feel like I was lied to (even if that may not be technically true in a lawyer definition), and this more than anything else kills my enthusiasm for Elite. I played nearly daily in the past, now it is a few times per week, and shorter sessions. With nothing to work towards to, it is just enjoying flying around in VR (and the VR space flying experience is still the best I know of, which makes them abandoning it even harder to swallow).

My interest for Odyssey is next to zero, I will get it on my main account due to the LEP, I will try it out and also continue to play the game in Horizons, but it does mean that Elite for me is finally there where a few people saw it already years ago - maintenance mode. No significant new things will be added to the game I love (which is Elite in VR), and the outlook for further expansions is grim - adding VR back in later will be harder the more additional things not taking VR into consideration (UI, forced animations, ...) are added, and supporting multiple branches is not efficient for the codebase, especially if the new engine is significant different to the current one.

I still hope that the new engine is more similar to the current one, and we will get full VR in Odyssey (seated is fine for me - this is a game about space ships, not a survival game where you can also move around with spaceships like NMS).

No, I won't quit, so nobody can have my stuff, I will just play less and won't spend money.

Pretty much my view. I came to play last night and just thought what is the point?..... FD have dangled carrots for years such as the iceworlds to try to keep is invested...... And it work -just about (tho for me this is almost solely because of VR. My ship is out in the black I was making notes of 1st discoveres that I can land on (at the time it was a leap of faith we would get atmospherics) but now that entire gameplay motivation is gone unless FD change their minds.
So I played XCOM2 instead.also no VR but I never expected that in VR (tho would be cool perhaps)

I have ordered a Reverb G2 but I seriously am questioning of it is worth it. 2500 hrs.of ED all on VR since 2014. I dare say ALL my other VR combined totals less than 250 hrs

With you both. My patience with Frontier and their treatment of ED and its players is completely exhausted now. The ditching* of VR is pretty much the final nail in the coffin and the sheer arrogance of Frontier senior management to believe that their contempt can have no negative consequences is baffling.

* And before I am jumped on to say Horizons can still be continued to be played: Odyssey is going to require a new mission generator so the current one will stagnate at best or no longer work at all, CGs/IIs (if they return) are more than likely be tied to the new mission system, any planetary upgrades will be tied to the new engine (otherwise we would have got them in 2018 when they appeared at ShamX2017) so no improvement in visuals. Horizons may go into maintenance mode, but that would imply periodic bug fixes and I am not sure that they will (especially if the rumoured codebase changes happens).

 

[Craith]

To be fair, I think changes to the mission generator is one of the things that will be handed down to Horizons - it does not make sense to use a different one between these. Any mission requiring new content will be Odyssey only of course - like it is now with all missions requiring planetary landings and thus Horizons.

 

[Old Duck]

With you both. My patience with Frontier and their treatment of ED and its players is completely exhausted now. The ditching* of VR is pretty much the final nail in the coffin and the sheer arrogance of Frontier senior management to believe that their contempt can have no negative consequences is baffling.

The problem is, I don't think Frontier cares. The removal of the ADS and Frontier's offhand dismissal of both player angst and the loss of much of their loyal fan base did nothing to change their mind (and bringing back the ADS as a separate, optional module would have been TRIVIAL), so we can protest all we want about VR, but I doubt it will change anything.

Frontier cares about one thing only these days - making money. They have our money, and with server costs they probably like it when veteran players quit the game, as long as new players with new money replace them. Odyssey may end up being a "New Era" for a "new generation" - ie, Fortnite in Space, since copying Fortnite seems all the rage these days.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

The problem is, I don't think Frontier cares. The removal of the ADS and Frontier's offhand dismissal of both player angst and the loss of much of their loyal fan base did nothing to change their mind (and bringing back the ADS as a separate, optional module would have been TRIVIAL), so we can protest all we want about VR, but I doubt it will change anything.

Frontier cares about one thing only these days - making money. They have our money, and with server costs they probably like it when veteran players quit the game, as long as new players with new money replace them. Odyssey may end up being a "New Era" for a "new generation" - ie, Fortnite in Space, since copying Fortnite seems all the rage these days.

It could be argued that the ADS was replaced by the FSS and therefore "development progress". I'm not sure the same can be said for VR's removal,as its not being replaced by anything, so "development regression" maybe?...

Maybe the company needs to be re-branded....."Backyard Regressions Plc" maybe, or is that too honest?

 

[Snowymonk]

It could be argued that the ADS was replaced by the FSS and therefore "development progress". I'm not sure the same can be said for VR's removal,as its not being replaced by anything, so "development regression" maybe?...

Maybe the company needs to be re-branded....."Backyard Regressions Plc" maybe, or is that too honest?

Not adding VR to a new bit of development does not count as regression
but I am sure that throwing stones at the developers will help incentivise them to change their mind.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Not adding VR to a new bit of development does not count as regression
but I am sure that throwing stones at the developers will help incentivise them to change their mind.

Unless the rendering engine has been completely rewritten from the ground up (in which case there are other potential hardware users who may not make the cut), I expect that effort was expended in order to not have VR in the Odyssey code base (even if that is a simple deletion of the GUI entry in the code to disable it). Sometimes removing features from a complex code base can be as much effort as leaving it in...

You may notice I am careful to direct my criticism at the corporate entity, not its employees, whom I have professional admiration for.