If it takes them nearly a decade to utterly fail to put a USB stick in an envelope - I shudder to think how on earth they will deliver anything approaching a game
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
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If it takes them nearly a decade to utterly fail to put a USB stick in an envelope - I shudder to think how on earth they will deliver anything approaching a game
Can you explain me how in the USA those TOS doesn't respect the law ? It's a genuine ans sincere question, I don't know how it works in the US. Those TOS are perfectly legal in France.
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The game doesn't exist, it's an alpha. Which assets and soudntracks ? Those from 2.0, 3.2, 3.9, 3.10, 4.0 or 5.2 ?If it takes them nearly a decade to utterly fail to put a USB stick in an envelope - I shudder to think how on earth they will deliver anything approaching a game
- Spaceship shaped USB stick of game and all digital elements
- CD of game soundtrack
- Fold up glossy full color map of the game universe
It's perfectly legal as long as they are delivering goods and services for that "pledge"... but if I understand you correctly, you're claiming that's not the case, that it's purely a donation to help them finish the game. In which case... why would they be charging VAT?
Also, given that they are, what do you think they're putting as the description on the VAT invoices? (Would be honestly very interested to know the answer, I feel like it could be quite interesting...)
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Yes... because that's exactly the kind of thing I want to do when engaged in combat... take my hands off the controls of my ship to select something on the radar with a mouse...
Dont give me that pledge nonsense. You cant waive away consumer law. And you shouldnt be eager to try to.
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES INTERNATIONAL LTD TERMS OF SERVICE - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42
Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.robertsspaceindustries.com
RSI is raising funds for the Game and other RSI Services. You may select one or more of the pledges for in-game items (“Pledge Item(s)”) offered on the Website, or through RSI’s customer service, and pay the indicated amount(s) (the “Pledge Funds”) in accordance with the following terms agreed between you and RSI.
Your Pledge Funds are a deposit to be used for the development and production cost of the Game, including the Pledge Items, and the costs of operating and hosting the Game, the Website and the other RSI Services, as well as RSI’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the “Game Cost”).
The Pledge Funds will be earned by RSI at the earlier of:
when the Pledge Item becomes functional in Star Citizen’s Alpha Persistent Universe (or is delivered separately, such as the game Squadron 42), or
when your Pledge Funds have been expended for the Game Cost.
Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these TOS, you may cancel your order of Pledge Items for any reason within 14 days of the date on which the order was made (“Cancellation Period”).
To cancel your order during the applicable Cancellation Period, you simply need to notify us in writing of your decision to cancel your order. The easiest way to do so is to complete and submit to us our support request form which can be found here. You can also cancel your order during the applicable Cancellation Period by emailing us at support@cloudimperiumgames.com. You may also use the cancellation/withdrawal form here to exercise your Right of Withdrawal (as described in Sec. XXIV below).
If you cancel your order during the applicable Cancellation Period, we will without undue delay, and in any event within fourteen (14) days from the date on which we receive notice of your decision to cancel your order, fully refund to you the respective Pledge Funds. In accordance with applicable financial control and banking rules, we reserve the right to refund you using the same means of payment as you used to make your order.
If you already have received your Virtual Goods and cancel your order within the applicable Cancellation Period, we will remove the relevant Virtual Goods you ordered from your Account once we have processed your cancellation notice and you will no longer be able to access or use those Virtual Goods.
RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the Pledge Item(s) as soon as possible. You agree that any unearned portion of your Pledge Funds shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has ceased development and failed to deliver the relevant Pledge Item(s) to you. In consideration of the promises by RSI hereunder, you agree that you irrevocably waive any claim for a refund of your Pledge Funds except as set forth in the preceding sentence.
For the avoidance of doubt, following the Cancelation Period, in consideration of RSI’s good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game and the other RSI Services with the funds raised, you agree that all earned Pledge Funds shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Pledge Item(s), the Game and/or the other RSI Services. In the unlikely event that RSI is not able to deliver the Pledge Item(s), and/or the Game, RSI agrees to refund any unearned portion of your Pledge Funds, and to post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the funds raised for the Game Cost.
You acknowledge and agree that the Game and the Pledge Item(s) delivered to you may differ in certain aspects from the description of the Game and the Pledge Items on the Website at the time of your Pledge, due to the evolving design of the Pledge Items and the Game during development.
For the avoidance of doubt, all payments for items delivered immediately or soon after purchase, such as recurring website subscriptions or alpha passes, are not covered by this Section IV, but by Section VI below. Merchandize is defined and covered by Section VII below.
And you certainly cant waive away tax obligations - tax fraud is criminal offense in many jurisdictions
Illegal unregulated public investment offerings, too. Especially in Europe.
Yes... because that's exactly the kind of thing I want to do when engaged in combat... take my hands off the controls of my ship to select something on the radar with a mouse...
HOMAS, the true chosen people.
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Pssst......you are part of the Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12 dude. Too many people come here trying to distance themselves from "us" failing to realize that the moment they post here they become a part and basically diss themselves
edit: we all have our own reputation in this place. I for example are sensitive, overly defensive in my view (hence the walls of text) and simply a chatterbox (ask my wife....). I also hold grudges.....I think thats all, the others are too cowarly to tell me what they really think ^^
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...oh and let's not forget that the transaction for SC is not a pledge. If it were, money would either be changing hands in the opposite direction or all backers would be entitled to interest on the loans they're extending to CIG (on top of getting all their money back once the project is complete).
Nether is happening, of course, because it's just a standard digital goods sale and nothing else. It funds development in exactly the way all other sales do. No amount of irrelevant EULA faffing will change this simple fact. CIG is no longer running a crowdfunding campaign - that phase ended seven and a half years ago. The term "pledge" no longer applies.
e: fargenblargen predictive text
Nether is happening, of course, because it's just a standard digital goods sale and nothing else. It funds development in exactly the way all other sales do. No amount of irrelevant EULA faffing will change this simple fact. CIG is no longer running a crowdfunding campaign - that phase ended seven and a half years ago. The term "pledge" no longer applies.
e: fargenblargen predictive text
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I havent' say its a donation. Perhaps I've misused an english term. As I've said, Il will prefer not to discuss legal terms in english because I am not fluent enough in this matter where every word have a specific signification. And I don't know US law (the legal contract for CIG is under US law I think).
I don't know how you can handle "pledge", "donation", etc in the US. But in France, you can't donate to a private society without big charges. And you have VAT if your donation is with counterpats. In France it's better to handle "donations" as "services" for a private company to avoid big taxes from the government.
So, where exactly CIG is cheating with the way it handles "pledges" (or other word) and its TOS ? And if so, why nobody had simply get CIG in court for not delivering its commercial product ? It's a genuine question.
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One backer did pursue a refund through the courts - and lost his case because the holding of the court was - as CI-G represented and declared - in court - that they had in fact released the game as a commercial product and no refund was due
By not engaging in any type of transaction that would qualify as a pledge.
And it was attempted, but by an amateur who went up against the kind of Byzantine maze of shell companies you'd erect if you wanted to shield yourself against any attempt at reclaiming money, so the maze won.
It was also attempted by someone with a bit more of a clue, and they promptly(ish) got their money back, at which point CIG unilaterally changed the ToS to say that no-one was owed a product in return for the sales, and the backers were dumb enough to go "this is fine" and to defend it rather than challenge it.
It's a sale. As has been explained a pledge goes the other way round.
Another video where the player choose "beer" which open 7 another choices. At least 8 beverage for this first iteration of the bartender. Animations are better than the last video in this one.
One backer did pursue a refund through the courts - and lost his case because the holding of the court was - as CI-G represented and declared - in court - that they had in fact released the game as a commercial product and no refund was due
This is not true. And he did not lose.
In the TOS you agree to arbitration in lieu of suing in court. The court honored the arbitration clause of the TOS and told the plaintiff to pursue the matter through arbitration.
The plaintiff decided not to follow through with arbitration proceedings and subsequently pledged for more ships.
And then sold all of it on black market.
Yup - looking back over it you are right. I stand corrected.