Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Tippis]

Oh, and maybe we finally figure out what CRobber has been doing all this time.

Spoiler: Glassdoor

Pros
None. The CEO is obviously wrote the positive reviews to fool investors and potential employees

Cons
The CEO is a habitual liar with no basic knowledge on how to run a company. He has consistently derailed his own product's progress by upsetting engineers with scope changes , undermines his leads by favoring his friends opinion over their expertise, and doesn't pay employees on time and doesn't pay contractors or vendors at all. If you're an investor, vendor, or potential employee stay far away from this company.

Advice to Management
Both the gaming and music industries are small and are ran by the same people. Everyone knows each other and looks out for one another. That's how the industries were built and continue survive. If your company continues to turn over employees due to your poor leadership and shady business practices it will die.

Pros
Most interviewees can smell the crazy from a mile away and stay away, but the incredibly rare additions that had been made to the team constituted a legit Avengers crew that, if harnessed and steered properly, could make some groundbreaking, incredible stuff together, owing to their diverse backgrounds.

Although it's due to complete incompetence at the executive level, you're given an extremely long leash to work from home, handle personal needs, and work in whatever style you'd like. I had so much opportunity to experiment and learn from my coworkers making the best of a terrible situation.

Cons
The cons list is orders of magnitude longer than the pros list. Where do I even begin?

This company is doomed to fail, because none of its foundation is solid. The founder/CEO has a history of former companies left in nothing other than smoking wreckage. Our work was basically a never-ending Burning Man art project, with zero focus applied to consolidating into shippable products or business models.

It's like being in an abusive relationship. Being gaslighted, and endlessly seeing the goalposts moved left me traumatized with anxiety attacks and triggers.

CEO 100% refuses to accept any input from anyone because the only thing that is important is that he is exerting his will, despite having no plan. I can't tell you how many times, for example, me and several other people told him to run ONE Google search on the phrase "red pill" from 2015 onwards and see what he finds. You don't own this phrase anymore dude, you can't go out there named Red Pill! It's not your (poorly positioned) reference to make anymore! You're sitting on a Toxic brand! Company invested into several rebranding efforts which just get thrown in the trash because CEO didn't come up with it.

At one point he was banned from entering the building, because he micromanages, distracts and harasses everyone while he's there. There was a consensus that we got a lot more done without him there. Some internet research on Atlantis Cyberspace, Virtual Edge and other Scallie ventures will show you that we aren't even the first people to come up with this idea! Pathetic.

You feel like you're going insane watching executive coup after executive coup and being told that THIS is what the new plan is.

Advice to Management
There is no advice. I just hope everyone finds somewhere safe to land. This company and anything its CEO touches is DOA. It's a terrible shame that our work will die with it. If Laurent Scallie reaches out to you, don't even entertain maintaining a relationship with him. He's very good at making the right references to make it seem like he is aware of the technical challenges he faces and the industries and cultures that he has to interface with, but he's also a bully. He will treat you like he is entitled to your services, he will abuse his relationship to you by implying that you are friends based on one phone conversation... he's delusional. This is one bridge that I have zero regrets burning. Run far away and don't look back, there's plenty of other people working on the same cool things he wants to work on without dealing with him or anyone comfortable associating with him.

I have been working at Red Pill VR full-time

Pros
All the new positive reviews are lies
Cons
How the management are trying to fake review to make themselves look better to the investors.

I worked at Red Pill VR for more than a year

Pros
VR is an interesting market.
Cons
They do not live by agreements they make. They do not pay bills. CEO literally lies. They pad glassdoor with positive reviews o try to overcome the fact that every single employee - save one - has left over the past year because of the environment.

I worked at Red Pill VR for less than a year

Pros
-Pay, when finally delivered, was the amount originally discussed
-Content developed was interesting & unique
-Other developers are extremely talented and friendly, if under-utilized and abused by management

Cons
-Laurent, the CEO and manager of the project I worked on, is a manipulative, opportunistic and predatory person. Look at the other low reviews and you'll see the term "gaslighting" pop up frequently, for good reason.

-Objectives are outright changed or dropped upon completion while the people who complete them are handed messages of apparent disappointment and frustration from Laurent. Work was a vicious cycle of, "here's what I want, but I need it tomorrow before 9am," working all night to deliver exactly what was requested, only to have the request be changed upon delivery, along with a firm wrist slap for not reading his mind when he changed core, macro principles of his request.

-Project goals are completely lacking direction, while a base template of what is desired is provided, the execution of those items is made impossible by constantly changing definitions, additions and deletions.

-Project roles are not adequately maintained, leaving artists being demanded to attempt to stand in for source control submodule powershell scripting, and VFX artists being attemptively yanked into gameplay scripting & IK programming.

-Compensation, from nailing down figures to drawing up contracts to setting up payment distributions to actually having payment being sent out, was an awful experience. Project manager will send call after call, message after message when he thinks of a new idea for you to execute out of the blue, but when the time comes for payment for the first job you agreed to and completed, he is nowhere to be found or pushes you off because "he's in the middle of something."

Maybe the backer money went to a name change registration…

 

[LittleAnt]

I posters aren't adding their opinion/viewpoint, there isn't much point in posting.

OK, so I will post some of my viewpoint.

Straight up news on the game is easily accessible to anyone who wants it.

OK, so I will post not so known news and you will analyze it. And I will post screenshots/videos illustrating those elements.
And some pretty screenshots from time to time because sometimes SC is pretty.

 

[Darkfyre99]

you can tag me by name

Here's the thing... a good MMO actually needs a certain degree of "villainous" gameplay. The trick is to direct such gameplay in a manner so that its fun for everyone involved, rather than a single person. The same is true for most GIFT-like behavior in games. The problem isn't that the behavior exists, it's how much the behavior exists.

I've been playing MMOs, and before them MUDs, for over 30 years now. The MMO genre is so mature that MMO developers shouldn't be making the same mistakes over, and over, and over again. And yet they do, primarily because they focus so much on the technical side of their game, they ignore what makes MMOs different from single-player games: "Come for the game mechanics, stay for the community." Which is why I'm waiting, cautiously, to see what DU and SB produce.

 

[ECity]

Don't let your plushie ski down the slopes (twitch clip)

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Good question. One of those points :

1. If SQ42 is a complete failure proving that CIG doesn't know how to release a full working game.
2. If CIG stop completely to develop the game for several patch.
3. If SC give me less and less fun after several patchs to the point that I prefer playing to another game.
4. If a new game is better than the current SC alpha (Odyssey for instance). I'm sure I will not play SC when Cyberpunk will be out until I finish this game.
5. Some others I don't think atm.

Thank you. I think for your second point you mean stop to develop for several months rather than patches. If they are not adding stuff with patches then its not much of a patch.... hold on, you might be onto something here.

If i may add a related question. How many more years without a releasable version of SC before you give up on it?

I use the phrase "releasable product", because often when dealing with backers if you say just "release" then they start evading the question by saying the game will always be in development or that its already playable, etc. So, just to clarity, i mean a product which CIG could slap a real 1.0 label on it, start asking people to buy it, not pledge, and it won't get completely destroyed in reviews for being a steaming pile of doo doo.

5 more years?
10?
20?
50?

I don't see me as an evangelist. If I am at the evangelist level here, several people here would be considered at the hater level. But I don't see haters here.

I think you are confusing being an evangelist with being a cultist. But ok, i see your point. I think you are seeing a lot of things related to the project through rose tinted glasses though. Your response to the bartender AI was rather interesting and shows you believe a lot of the rubbish CIG say despite your protestations otherwise.

To become a skeptic, the points 1 to 3 above.
I just own an Aurora, nothing to sell.

Sure, not much to sell, but was just looking to see what it would take.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Guys, it sounds like you're trying to convert LittleAnt over.

That would be boring. This thread is the liveliest its been in ages!

Always interested to hear though what it might take and how long before a backer thinks they are not getting the game they wanted.

Most of us here i assume are convinced that CIG simply cannot make the game they have promised. In my case, i'm half convinced nobody could make the game they have promised, at least not within 10 years and a billion dollar budget.

In hindsight, knowing what a truly Herculean task Strike Commander turned into, the heartache and disappointment it created when its release date was constantly pushed back, and the amount of time from our personal lives that it consumed, we probably should have designed it differently. We shouldn't have tried to do quite as much or shot quite as high. In our arrogance we had set out to create something that was not only better than everything else, it was several orders of magnitude better. And it was several orders of magnitude more expensive as well -in fact the most expensive game ORIGIN has ever developed. Like Francis Ford Coppola and his film crew on Apocalypse Now, we knew we were in way over our heads, but we also knew there was no turning back.

It happened with Strike Commander. It happened with Freelancer. Its happening again with Star Citizen.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

maybe CR have seen this:

Another first for CIG!

 

[MonAmieEmily]

I'm beginning to notice a trend with those that will insist on defending CIG and Star Citizen. That trend is, if you're in to the role playing scene, chances are you will love Star Citizen. Nearly every enthusiastic influencer on youtube or twitch (that I've watched), or faithful defender of the cult, at a minimum, dabbles in role play. Star Citizen is a game about creating your own adventures. Whereas in other games, such as the evil Elite, the developers put in the work to create content for the players. Game loops are implemented so as to prevent necessitating the use of one's imagination to "enjoy" the product. You put the tasks in the game and employ varying levels of engagement to attract and keep an audience. Star Citizen doesn't have the necessary game loops to keep a person's attention for too long. Instead, what CIG provides is a large sandbox for those like to play make believe.

Pardon my very crude analogy here. I had a recent discussion with someone close to me about what Star Citizen feels like. The game reminds me of a children's toy. A child can take a lifeless figurine or doll with no extra features or accessories and go on limitless adventures manufactured by their very own mind. The toy can be made to do all sorts of impressive things that the child has a great appreciation for. An adult may not share the same level of appreciation, because their minds typically have become grounded in reality. For the child, that toy may eventually become boring. A child might turn to a new or larger toy to have even better adventures. This is where ship purchases enter. As a novelty, someone may spend money to buy a ship or two. However, ships only do so much on their own. Without the requisite game loops for certain ships, they are simply big virtual toys. Perhaps those with less tolerance for the fantastical will get bored of the new ships. It's even possible this type of person walks away from the project entirely for days, weeks, months, only to return to see what has changed. However, there is a subset of the player base that refuses to accept the reality of the game and the company. Their minds are not focused on fact and instead center on fantasy.

I've played the game. It's terrible. There are certain aspects of Star Citizen that I can enjoy, but they are limited. I tried returning to the game after taking several months off only to have an abysmal experience. I immediately stopped playing. The "adventures" that are had in the game are not produced by the developers. Instead, role players have created their own fantasies that Star Citizen "allows" them to live. If you can dream up missions and quests in your own mind, they might serve as adequate distraction from the reality of the game. This may be why especially role players will defend this product.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I am not oppressed here and I don'f feel so. I will be most factual and constructive in my future posts. No more mention to my fun in the alpha.

Ack, you're not getting it. Nothing wrong with talking about the fun you had in the alpha. Mole talks about the fun he's had and he doesn't get dogpiled for it. Sovapid talks about the fun he has in SC and doesn't get dogpiled for it (although he is a filthy gweifer ).

You say you will be more factual, but the facts you are sometimes referring to are horse manure given out by CIG.

You do have to accept though that there is a very skeptical audience here, and to start parroting CIG talking points or simply saying "I have loads of fun in SC" is going to get challenged.

This is not /r/SC where people will upvote you for posting a screenshot of your ship and saying how wonderful CIG are and what a great game it already is.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

How do you plan on using this in game? What are you looking forward to doing with this in 3.10?

Drag the body onto my ship, fly into space. Eject the body. Laugh.

Actually though, what is the point? If its an NPC its pretty worthless unless there is a quest involving dragging a dead/unconscious body.

If its a player, what, players are now meant to wait when dead/unconscious while someone drags their body around?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

New enter effect for big ship.
Effect seen from distance one another ship at 0:34. The occuling distance has been greatly increased for 3.10

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hsgsin

So, just graphics. Not you know, gameplay. CIG have been selling the game for years based on graphics and dreams of gameplay that might one day happen (or not).

The whole kickstarter was fuelled on a fancy tech demo and promises of BDSSE. CIG have spent years selling people on fancy ships and shiny graphics.

 

[sovapid]

Ack, you're not getting it. Nothing wrong with talking about the fun you had in the alpha. Mole talks about the fun he's had and he doesn't get dogpiled for it. Sovapid talks about the fun he has in SC and doesn't get dogpiled for it (although he is a filthy gweifer ).

You say you will be more factual, but the facts you are sometimes referring to are horse manure given out by CIG.

You do have to accept though that there is a very skeptical audience here, and to start parroting CIG talking points or simply saying "I have loads of fun in SC" is going to get challenged.

This is not /r/SC where people will upvote you for posting a screenshot of your ship and saying how wonderful CIG are and what a great game it already is.

TBF, its hard to talk about how much fun you are having in an Aurora

Although should still have the free freelancer, which does enable some fun.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

In SC, there will be permanent damage that will have to be treated in special medbeds.
If you are unconscious or both legs are broken, another player will have to drag you to a ship and take you to a hospital (or heal your wound directly if he has the right medbed in ship : Cutlass red, Carrack, etc).
Also bounty hunters will have too to knock off their bounty and grab them to a cell in their ship. CIG has added the new shock damage that will be able to make you unconscious.
There are also roleplay usage for the dragging.

Do you know how much that would suck in reality if CIG ever actually implement it. (by the way, nice evasion when you were asked what you are going to do with this feature in 3.10, instead choosing to talk about an unknown future that may or may never happen.... remember what i was saying about evangelism? You're back in fantasy land. Try and keep your feet on the ground. CIG have been promising many things for many years, most of them no implemented and not even on any roadmaps).

Imagine, both your legs are broken somehow. You're on a planet. Your ship is far away. You're slowing dying due to thirst (because boy, does your average player just love having survival mechanics in their space game).... so, you just sit there waiting for someone to come rescue you? Hell no, you don't, you commit suicide. That is an option right? At least for now.... because i'm sure if CR ever implements his "Death of a Spaceman" thing, he's going to want consequences for people killing themselves.

 

[kilvenny]

Three cheers for LittleAnt for disturbing the stone and releasing the worker ants to furious activity.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I thought it would take at least a few more days before you started posting random screenshots and videos.

Why does every single Star Citizen "enthusiast" here start and end at exactly the same point?

Despite what you may think, some of us have been following every patch.We know the features, have seen the improvements and understand what should eventually be coming.

Some of us have been doing it for almost a decade now.

Beats me. They feel compelled to post as much SC promo material as possible, and then its not right to call them evangelists. I don't want to call them shills, i have no proof they are receiving payment for their efforts. Troll isn't right. It doesn't look or feel like trolling.

I can only assume they really think SC is going to one day be the ultimate dream game that everyone will want to play and therefore the news of every teeny tiny minor update needs to be shown off.

Look! A new AI! Never been done before!
Look! Body dragging! Never been done before!
Look! A new gun! This one will have a stun setting in the future! Never been done before!

 

[kilvenny]

Do you know how much that would suck in reality if CIG ever actually implement it. (by the way, nice evasion when you were asked what you are going to do with this feature in 3.10, instead choosing to talk about an unknown future that may or may never happen.... remember what i was saying about evangelism? You're back in fantasy land. Try and keep your feet on the ground. CIG have been promising many things for many years, most of them no implemented and not even on any roadmaps).

Imagine, both your legs are broken somehow. You're on a planet. Your ship is far away. You're slowing dying due to thirst (because boy, does your average player just love having survival mechanics in their space game).... so, you just sit there waiting for someone to come rescue you? Hell no, you don't, you commit suicide. That is an option right? At least for now.... because i'm sure if CR ever implements his "Death of a Spaceman" thing, he's going to want consequences for people killing themselves.

Yeah and the griefers will delight in breaking both your legs, dragging you to place where no one will find you and leaving you there - for ever

 

[ECity]

Roadmap updated. Still doesn't go past Q3. And it is July 17th.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

OK, so I will post some of my viewpoint.

Stop doing what we are telling you to do!

 

[sovapid]

Do you know how much that would suck in reality if CIG ever actually implement it. (by the way, nice evasion when you were asked what you are going to do with this feature in 3.10, instead choosing to talk about an unknown future that may or may never happen.... remember what i was saying about evangelism? You're back in fantasy land. Try and keep your feet on the ground. CIG have been promising many things for many years, most of them no implemented and not even on any roadmaps).

Imagine, both your legs are broken somehow. You're on a planet. Your ship is far away. You're slowing dying due to thirst (because boy, does your average player just love having survival mechanics in their space game).... so, you just sit there waiting for someone to come rescue you? Hell no, you don't, you commit suicide. That is an option right? At least for now.... because i'm sure if CR ever implements his "Death of a Spaceman" thing, he's going to want consequences for people killing themselves.

Yes, yes I do.

I take it you never played DayZ mod? Was not uncommon to get into that exact situation. Except in the mod there was no way to suicide. So had to crawl around looking for a way to kill yourself (throw yourself off a building, find a zombie) or starve to death.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Yeah and the griefers will delight in breaking both your legs, dragging you to place where no one will find you and leaving you there - for ever

Only after they teabag you first.