Why is there more malice aimed at people wanting mining the way it was than towards the people who exploited it?

[Old Duck]

From the beginning, everything is a grind. Like I mentioned in the above posts, credit farming isn't the only thing to do, but the rest of the game is literally a grind.

See, this is the part I don't understand. For me, from the beginning everything was amazing. I was flying a freaking SPACESHIP, running missions, exploring new planets and civilizations in our galaxy, fighting bad guys, all in my very modest Adder. The early days felt like anything but a grind! Now unlocking Fujin Tea Man, that was a grind.... Stupid, stupid grind (which has since been remedied by fleet carriers). Eventually I progressed and got bigger and bigger ships until I got my Anaconda. That was pretty exciting, and I felt like I truly had earned that ship.

These days the game feels more like a grind because I've done everything there is to do, too many times. Ironically, while I have enough credits for any ship I want in the game, I spend the majority of my time flying ships like the Type 7 and Eagle these days. If you are not enjoying the game now, and you haven't been since day one, what makes you think that will change just because you get an A-rated Python? I own an A-rated Python, and it's sitting in a garage somewhere collecting dust. If you hate the game now, I'm pretty sure you'll hate it later. ED is not a game that gets better over time IMO unless you are a hard-core PvPer. Everything else can be done with very modest ships.

* Fleet Carriers are the obvious exception, as they radically change how the game plays regardless what kind of fleet you own. That's why I advocated that FCs be made DLC rather than something that needs to be grinded for in-game.

 

[Nickolai]

The crux of the issue is that the payouts vs. level-of-effort for things in this game are out-of-whack, and every time FDev attempts to balance something, they swing from one extreme to the next.

Prior to the January update, Void Opals were the best money makers. They could only be found in cores, and required a bit of effort finding them, and a bit of skill to extract them.

After the January update, VO prices were decreased by 60%, but LTD prices were doubled (despite them being easier to mine with lasers in a known triple hotspot). Totally non-sensical. (Now VO prices are back to their original levels thankfully).

The point is - it should be fairly easy to understand how to balance payouts based on level of effort. If LTDs are abundant and easy to mine, they should pay less (700-800k seems reasonable - and that was the reality prior to the January update). Core minerals are harder to mine, so should pay more (1 million+ is good, and should apply to Alexandrite and Grandidierite as well). But instead with each patch we get these wild price swings that seem to have nothing to do with the difficulty - it's like FDev is totally ignorant of how to mine their own commodities or play their own game...

And this idea should be applied to other careers as well. Thargoid combat is insanely difficult but pays practically nothing. Why? Sure, there could be ways to exploit this (see video of 25 CMDRs insta-killing a Hydra). So why give each participant the same money? Just make a Hydra worth 50 mil, and split the payout between everyone. Bounties for Deadly+ NPCs should be worth 10x the amount, as well as missions to assassinate pirate lords. I could go on - smuggling should pay a lot more, etc etc.

This isn't rocket science.

 

[SgtMajRaz]

See, this is the part I don't understand. For me, from the beginning everything was amazing. I was flying a freaking SPACESHIP, running missions, exploring new planets and civilizations in our galaxy, fighting bad guys, all in my very modest Adder. The early days felt like anything but a grind! Now unlocking Fujin Tea Man, that was a grind.... Stupid, stupid grind (which has since been remedied by fleet carriers). Eventually I progressed and got bigger and bigger ships until I got my Anaconda. That was pretty exciting, and I felt like I truly had earned that ship.

These days the game feels more like a grind because I've done everything there is to do, too many times. Ironically, while I have enough credits for any ship I want in the game, I spend the majority of my time flying ships like the Type 7 and Eagle these days. If you are not enjoying the game now, and you haven't been since day one, what makes you think that will change just because you get an A-rated Python? I own an A-rated Python, and it's sitting in a garage somewhere collecting dust. If you hate the game now, I'm pretty sure you'll hate it later. ED is not a game that gets better over time IMO unless you are a hard-core PvPer. Everything else can be done with very modest ships.

* Fleet Carriers are the obvious exception, as they radically change how the game plays regardless what kind of fleet you own. That's why I advocated that FCs be made DLC rather than something that needs to be grinded for in-game.

I grind because I am in a fairly large and very active wing that participates heavily in both PvP, PvE, and BGS. My end goal is to participate in those activities without feeling like I'm a crutch because I don't have what the meta dictates in order to at least hold my own in Open play. My time is precious. Every ship, every upgrade, every system jump, every engineer, every single rock I've mined I felt like I've earned regardless of the time it took to do it.

 

[alexzk]

I think I got my Anaconda 1 month later once figured how to dock
Just did why I always wanted to play Elite - visited Crab Nebula and back - that was enough for Anaconda.

 

[MrE.]

An observation on 'grind' in ED, particularly as it relates to the recent mining changes:
Focussing on credits in a game where energy is basically free (fuel scooping) is silly - money is just a product of time under those conditions, so irrelevant.

I have been playing since 2015 or so and only once did it feel like a grind (helping a BGS thing).

Under the old Inara rankings I was in the top 100 CMDRs, and near top 50 in CQC. Since the mining boom started (and under the new ranking system) I have dropped to circa 1600th place in the rankings (but only to 130 or so in CQC). Aside from less time for CQC this year I have not changed my play style at all (did not participate in the gold-rush nonsense and have not purchased a carrier). The ranking change seems to be because the most committed CMDRs who used the harvesting loops are now trillionaires (or at least one of them was a while back).

I am not in the least resentful or 'jealous' - congratulations to anyone who has achieved their goals in game or in real life - but rather trying to argue that there are multiple available play styles and game loops and if/when you find one or more you enjoy, welcome

I would not trade my multi-year 'journey' for a way to get a big ship sooner - the journey was the rewarding part...I accidentally took a passenger mission to the Degenerate Three (near Sag-A) in a 20ly Asp Explorer...took weeks and made it back the day before the mission was due (and still didn't get paid because I was scanned on the way into the station)! The exploration data paid for my Python though . I have helped solve some of the game's mysteries (lore and mechanics), discovered (independently, though not first) a Megaship, been to amazing places and seen amazing things, and met loads of interesting people on the way.

I literally don't care what any other CMDR does in the game or how many beer tokens they collect in game (or have in real life) - it is a REALLY big galaxy...

MrE.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

I don' t think I got my first Python within 6 months of starting the game. This isn't me just being an old 'In my day it was tough so you kids should have powdered egg too' thing. I genuinely believe you mis out on so much if you just zip through that in a matter of weeks.

I'm not saying you have and I'm not saying my progress was the norm, maybe, just like at school, I was the slowest kid in the class.

pretty standard sometime back. It's the instant gratification/juvenile sense of entitlement crowd that seem irked by the fact it was and in all likelihood intended to be a long term game and not reach the end game in half a year or less and call it good. Personally, I have stated I appreciated the learning curve and "grind". The sense of accomplishment is greater to me than the get rich quick scheme that took place. Although it's not my game so I don't get to make the rules.

 

[Dragsham]

I have 7 ships. All fully engineered. In fact I'm reengineering the combat builds cos of Carrier influence.
I've got these ships cos I use em all. Each has it's specific usage.
That's the game for me. Being able to Master these roles and hold your own.
I admire all those in the open who put it to the test. I too like this style of gameplay. Risk brings excitement.
Do wish they'd sort out smuggling. Love smuggling...and you don't do these things for credits u do it for fun.
Ain't that what were all here for?

 

[alexzk]

I don' t think I got my first Python within 6 months of starting the game. This isn't me just being an old 'In my day it was tough so you kids should have powdered egg too' thing. I genuinely believe you mis out on so much if you just zip through that in a matter of weeks.

I'm not saying you have and I'm not saying my progress was the norm, maybe, just like at school, I was the slowest kid in the class.

I got my 1st Python week ago Just because MK-2 is better ...sold not used phantom and moved all stuff to python.

 

[Old Duck]

I grind because I am in a fairly large and very active wing that participates heavily in both PvP, PvE, and BGS. My end goal is to participate in those activities without feeling like I'm a crutch because I don't have what the meta dictates in order to at least hold my own in Open play. My time is precious. Every ship, every upgrade, every system jump, every engineer, every single rock I've mined I felt like I've earned regardless of the time it took to do it.

So if you can pay to have better ships in order to use those ships to beat other players (PvP & BGS), this wouldn't be "pay to win" in your eyes? Does your squadron support this point-of-view?

Well, whatever. With each post defending your "right" to be on equal footing with everyone else without putting in the same amount of time, you answer your own question about why the community will feel "not so impressed" with you.

Anyway, I hear you are a very busy man, so let me not waste any more of your time. Good luck with your A-rated Python, I hear you can pick one up for free at Hutton Orbital!

 

[MrE.]

See, this is the part I don't understand. For me, from the beginning everything was amazing. I was flying a freaking SPACESHIP, running missions, exploring new planets and civilizations in our galaxy, fighting bad guys, all in my very modest Adder.

...Cobra in my case - and YES, THIS ^^^^^^

...and it still is! Thank you FDEV for giving me the game my imagination saw when I played the original Elite way back when...

MrE.

 

[SgtMajRaz]

So if you can pay to have better ships in order to use those ships to beat other players (PvP & BGS), this wouldn't be "pay to win" in your eyes? Does your squadron support this point-of-view?

Well, whatever. With each post defending your "right" to be on equal footing with everyone else without putting in the same amount of time, you answer your own question about why the community will feel "not so impressed" with you.

Anyway, I hear you are a very busy man, so let me not waste any more of your time. Good luck with your A-rated Python, I hear you can pick one up for free at Hutton Orbital!

This not AT ALL what I'm advocating for. I never said I wanted new players to just buy ships to hold their own in PvP. I've been advocating with every post that the game has been imbalanced for years (according to the vets here) and there have been advantages taken by a plethora players through those years. Then they nerf it. All of it. Yet again, without a balance and it will be harder for the newer crowd to even attain what the vets have got with even the same amount of grinding. The majority of the counter argument? You're late, too bad, so sad. Grinding will give you a better sence of pride and accomplishment. Not only that, but you're going to have to do it in a worse economy and climate than it ever was.

Pay to win means being able to buy upgrades, gear, etc at a faster or instantaneous rate to give you an advantage. That one little boost to help newbies in the middle of this entire patch fiasco does not mean pay to win. You STILL have to grind for engineers. You still have to grind for all the ships. You still have to grind for ranks. You still have to grind for materials. You still have to grind for guardian materials. You still have to grind for BGS activities.

Not once did I advocate for wanting to be able to purchase my way to be on equal footing for someone that has played for years, but thanks for taking the time to exit with some mocking wit.

 

[Dragsham]

Liked the wit....
You won't do that twice.
But you both are passionate about elite and that's all that matters.
Opinions differ.
Gents we just want a game that's fun for all. Isn't that more important than what's right and wrong? After all its only a game.
I will agree with the fact that vets feel cheated. I also agree powerlevelling is sacrosanct. Credit farming makes no odds.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

I'm a software engineer that works insane hours during the week. I'm lucky if I can eek out an hour or two a night to play.

I imagine most of us have jobs, I imagine most of us have other responsibilities on top of that, I imagine most of us want more gaming time.

I don't like Marzipan, hate the stuff, but instead of choosing one of the other thousands of things I could eat, what I might do is join the Marzipan forum and ask them to change it. Despite other people liking it, been eating it the way it is for years, I'll tell them that I work and would like them to change it for me.

You have been playing 4 months, what you seem to fail to recognise is, an aspect of this game is that it takes a long time, it's not a 20hour campaign, credits roll on completion game. That, to many people, is a good thing. What you are not also accepting is, this one aspect of the game wasn't working as it should, it was out of whack, long before you started playing. What you have experienced in the last 4 months is not 'normal' for this game. Yes, they used a chainsaw to trim their toenails but that won't last forever. They'll fix it but it is unlikely to return to the way it was because either 'players have jobs' or 'being out of whack doesn't matter'.

To me, this game is unlike 99% of other games available and I'm sick to death of reading about how people want to make it more like all the other games. Fast track progress, introduce credit purchase. It takes too long to cross through the billions of stars, make shortcuts. God give me strength.

 

[Dragsham]

How about a wormhole at sag A to andromeda and we can all start again.
Ohh doable??

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

I imagine most of us have jobs, I imagine most of us have other responsibilities on top of that, I imagine most of us want more gaming time.

I don't like Marzipan, hate the stuff, but instead of choosing one of the other thousands of things I could eat, what I might do is join the Marzipan forum and ask them to change it. Despite other people liking it, been eating it the way it is for years, I'll tell them that I work and would like them to change it for me.

You have been playing 4 months, what you seem to fail to recognise is, an aspect of this game is that it takes a long time, it's not a 20hour campaign, credits roll on completion game. That, to many people, is a good thing. What you are not also accepting is, this one aspect of the game wasn't working as it should, it was out of whack, long before you started playing. What you have experienced in the last 4 months is not 'normal' for this game. Yes, they used a chainsaw to trim their toenails but that won't last forever. They'll fix it but it is unlikely to return to the way it was because either 'players have jobs' or 'being out of whack doesn't matter'.

To me, this game is unlike 99% of other games available and I'm sick to death of reading about how people want to make it more like all the other games. Fast track progress, introduce credit purchase. It takes too long to cross through the billions of stars, make shortcuts. God give me strength.

Thank you for saying this better and more tactful than I could. I was already passive aggressive enough

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Thank you for saying this better and more tactful than I could. I was already passive aggressive enough

Been a long week, hasn’t it?

 

[Dragsham]

Assuming a hotfix sorts out yield won't that in turn open yet another mining issue and so on so forth.?
Seems endless....
Some say they should have capped sale price or wotever. I'm left wondering if fdev could have done the right thing to suit all. Doubt it..
So it's gonner be fixed no doubt but not to everyones taste.

 

[SgtMajRaz]

I imagine most of us have jobs, I imagine most of us have other responsibilities on top of that, I imagine most of us want more gaming time.

I don't like Marzipan, hate the stuff, but instead of choosing one of the other thousands of things I could eat, what I might do is join the Marzipan forum and ask them to change it. Despite other people liking it, been eating it the way it is for years, I'll tell them that I work and would like them to change it for me.

You have been playing 4 months, what you seem to fail to recognise is, an aspect of this game is that it takes a long time, it's not a 20hour campaign, credits roll on completion game. That, to many people, is a good thing. What you are not also accepting is, this one aspect of the game wasn't working as it should, it was out of whack, long before you started playing. What you have experienced in the last 4 months is not 'normal' for this game. Yes, they used a chainsaw to trim their toenails but that won't last forever. They'll fix it but it is unlikely to return to the way it was because either 'players have jobs' or 'being out of whack doesn't matter'.

To me, this game is unlike 99% of other games available and I'm sick to death of reading about how people want to make it more like all the other games. Fast track progress, introduce credit purchase. It takes too long to cross through the billions of stars, make shortcuts. God give me strength.

Jesus christ, I can't even anymore. I can't explain in any bigger degree than I have already that I understood LTD needed nerding. I am for that! LTD was nerfed and everything remained the same, that's the problem. It could have been a small fix, but it went the extreme. It even seemed to break other mechanics that caused unintended circumstances that the devs seem to be looking into. How long it takes to rectify is anyone's guess, but yeah, they'll fix keep fixing it right? I'm not advocating for fast tracking for money that will bypass literally everything else you have to do in this game. It's very astonishing that you shun and abhor this but not one word about the exploiters that took advantage of a broken mechanic that forced Fdev to go so far as they did. It's my fault for not wanting to game to be more difficult than it was yesterday? It's my fault for hating the way FC's were introduced because it took days for me to log back into because it froze every time I jumped into a crowded system? God give ME strength because I'm sick to death of game vets telling me how I should play, when I should feel accomplished, and that I need to do it in every screwed up way they had to do it when I'm merely trying to fight for something balanced and equal for new and old alike.

It has been a long week. Going to get longer for you as this thread continues, I'm sure.

 

[SgtMajRaz]

Liked the wit....
You won't do that twice.
But you both are passionate about elite and that's all that matters.
Opinions differ.
Gents we just want a game that's fun for all. Isn't that more important than what's right and wrong? After all its only a game.
I will agree with the fact that vets feel cheated. I also agree powerlevelling is sacrosanct. Credit farming makes no odds.

Difference of opinions and all. I know we all have them and I know we all want a game we can enjoy as one, but it can certainly be without the high and mighty, I have done this for years and years, condescending tone. I expect that in the kiddie Fortnite and SC forums.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

It's my fault for not wanting to game to be more difficult than it was yesterday?

The 'game' isn't more difficult than it was yesterday. Out of whack mining earnings are no longer available. They will come back in line. Hopefully, as you say, balanced with the rest of the game.

I'm sick to death of game vets telling me how I should play, when I should feel accomplished, and that I need to do it in every screwed up way they had to do it when I'm merely trying to fight for something balanced and equal for new and old alike.

We've all been asking for balance, for years. That should tell you something, Many were asking them to tone down the mining profits since before you started playing.

I'm not telling you how to play, what I was sharing was how I played at the beginning and why I enjoyed it. I'm sure some new players are also finding the same progress equally enjoyable. You're apparently not. Some don't. In one of your earlier posts (possibly the first one), you mentioned you were worried about the noob in their Sidewinder, you later revealed that you had been playing for four months. I wasn't talking directly about you, I was saying to you (thinking you had been playing for much longer) not to worry about the noob in their sidewinder, we all came through and are still playing, for some, it's an enjoyable process.

Those that didn't like it, stopped playing.

What is the big deal if someone plays the game and doesn't like it and stops playing? Plenty of people started/start playing the game and continue to do so.

As for your perceived omission on the subject of punishing the exploiters, there was a thread about it. If you want you can read my comments in there and add to them yourself.

Any compensation incoming for non-exploiters?

Hello fellow commanders. The instantly replenishing LTD subsurface deposits mining frenzy is just the cherry on top of the general mining rewards fiasco (compared to other activities). FDev trying hard to patch it, is a clear testament that its is NOT intended gameplay, and taking advantage of...

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