Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[Brrokk]

A new player here, about 6 weeks into my time in Elite. So apologies if this is repetitious, but it's something that's been on my mind.

I'd really like to have some dialogue with players who mainly play in Open, but who get angry / upset when they encounter the sort of "rogue commanders who have betrayed the Pilots Federation" described on the game's website, i.e. gankers and pirates.

Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

And most importantly, how often does it actually happen that you have a cooperative (non-PVP), spontaneous emergent experience in Open? Does that actually happen? I honestly don't know.

I've played mostly in Open, and found my group of in-game friends through being ganked. They've since gone on to be my mentors and help me learn the game, unlock engineers, etc. If I wasn't playing in Open, I wouldn't have met them, so I'm grateful I did. But my "introduction" came via interdiction and destruction. It turns out that was a very small price to pay to open a door to a huge amount of progression and expert guidance. I wasn't mad about it at the time, and I'm tremendously grateful now, once I realized just how complex and involved making positive progress in this game can be.

Accepting the friend request from the player with the crazy looking Holo-Me was the smartest thing I did in my first few hours in the game, as it turns out.

In all seriousness I suggest that this is a myth. In about 3 years of playing ED I've never known anyone saying they were upset about being ganked. I have seen maybe half a dozen threads saying "I got destroyed for no reason", but the well known modes and blocks easily solved this problem each time.

I've seen vastly more threads complaining that other players can avoid combat by not flying in Open or by blocking; that's the real source of the salt.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

upset about being ganked

Spend a day killing players in Deciat.

 

[JosiahD]

A new player here, about 6 weeks into my time in Elite. So apologies if this is repetitious, but it's something that's been on my mind.

I'd really like to have some dialogue with players who mainly play in Open, but who get angry / upset when they encounter the sort of "rogue commanders who have betrayed the Pilots Federation" described on the game's website, i.e. gankers and pirates.

Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

And most importantly, how often does it actually happen that you have a cooperative (non-PVP), spontaneous emergent experience in Open? Does that actually happen? I honestly don't know.

I've played mostly in Open, and found my group of in-game friends through being ganked. They've since gone on to be my mentors and help me learn the game, unlock engineers, etc. If I wasn't playing in Open, I wouldn't have met them, so I'm grateful I did. But my "introduction" came via interdiction and destruction. It turns out that was a very small price to pay to open a door to a huge amount of progression and expert guidance. I wasn't mad about it at the time, and I'm tremendously grateful now, once I realized just how complex and involved making positive progress in this game can be.

Accepting the friend request from the player with the crazy looking Holo-Me was the smartest thing I did in my first few hours in the game, as it turns out.

For mine, I don't mind PvP, I even enjoy it in other games, sometimes. But I prefer balanced more arena-style PvP, not assymetric PvP. I find assymetric PvP typically unbalanced (by its nature, this isn't meant as a negative, some people like it), and hence the outcome can depend more on who has the better build than skill (not universally true though). In Elite: Dangerous, that better build can in turn depend on time played and hence unlocked engineering. I think the introduction of the engineers ruined for many what could have been a much better playing field for PvP. Just my opinion though.

Main gripe I have re PvP though is the attitude a certain subset of PvP players bring to the table - the type that derive their pleasure by deliberately, intentionally setting out to deprive others of theirs. Ganking is to be expected from time to time in assymetric PvP, but griefing aspects of 'PvP' are another matter. Which is why the open/private/solo options were a master stroke by FDev - gives us the ability to choose who we play with at least, and when.

I would like at least one extra CMDR slot so I could keep my main separate from a more PvP-focused toon. I'd feel a lot more like dipping my toe into the PvP side if I could do that.

 

[Michael Whatever]

Expectation and experience of open play are regular debate ingredients on the forums.
Open play is the most varied and interesting (for me) because it includes other commanders and they are, by and large an unpredictable lot.

I guess, I play ED to immerse myself in the simulated world, rather than “just” as a game, as such I prefer this world to be self-consistent. I fully accept this is a constraint of my my own construction and should not necessarily restrict game play for other players.

I have no issue with piracy and robbery as I regard this as “reasonable behaviour.”

What I understand by “ganking” covers a multitude of misdemeanours, which can be partially mitigated by the manner in which they are carried out. Childish comms chatter, “gang-ganking”, seal-clubbing and blockading of engineering sites will get you blocked as too jarring for my head-canon, and once in a long while it will get you killed.

I'm even okay with some (seemingly) random murders - psychopaths and mistaken identity can account for them. However, any simulation where this this is the main player interaction is not just dystopian, it's an immersion breakingly non-functional society.

My commander has been killed by disciplined opponents, who have a kill only once rule. I can respect that.


My fun in encountering a human commander derives from the uncertainty, not knowing for sure how they are going to respond to your presence. Mostly my commander gets ignored and reciprocates that indifference, and that is a perfectly valid interaction. Some commanders are friendly, many are cautiously polite; most encounters feature me pre-emptively running away. The cat and mouse game is fun, even when I'm always the mouse. These days PvP only turns in to a serious combat game if something has gone wrong.

I'm not going to make friends with those who engage in activity of which I disapprove. Friendship will be based on shared values, it's quality not quantity, it's dignity rather than convenience. I am more than happy to fly the galaxy alone, looking over my shoulder at the circling psychopaths.

 

[DemiserofD]

It makes perfect sense. High security is a lie to make the plebs feel better. As a CMDR, you should know better.

This is what makes Elite legitimately terrifying, or in other words, dystopian!

If you knew anything at all of economics, you'd know why that's nonsense. A company only needs to lose a tiny percentage of their shipments from a location to cause them to shut that location down entirely. A government unable to defend its own property quickly collapses into anarchy.

Not to mention, there are two possibilities; either ships are cheap enough for pirates to afford lots of them, but are therefore also cheap enough for governments to afford FAR more and therefore defend everything with overwhelming force...

or ships are expensive enough government's can't effectively defend their territory, but pirates should in no way EVER be able to afford them, any more than modern pirates can afford to field a battlecruiser.

The only situation that makes no sense at all is the current one. Where the entire system is minutes away from a military base yet piracy happens anyway, where ships are expensive enough governments can't afford to defend their territory yet cheap enough pirates can afford anacondas by the dozen.

It makes about as much sense as a merchant vessel getting pirated by a pirate aircraft carrier 500 yards from Pearl Harbor yet the Navy doesn't do anything about it.

The only reason it exists the way it does is because of game mechanics(fun, essentially) being more important than realism. But that in no way infers anything about the system being in any way realistic.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

If you knew anything at all of economics, you'd know why that's nonsense. A company only needs to lose a tiny percentage of their shipments from a location to cause them to shut that location down entirely. A government unable to defend its own property quickly collapses into anarchy.

Pull it back a bit, buddy. I'm speaking very generally generally about the context of Elite in relation to the OP's query.

People play Elite thinking it's Star Trek. It's Bladerunner. You're welcome to nitpick the specifics to death without me.

 

[Zarlok]

I have been playing in Open since coming back. Seen one Cmdr. lol Seriously PvP isnt my thing, all about who has the biggest gun or whatever. If I did meet someone I would probably fire up my seriously engineered thrusters and get the F out of there. Plenty of people do like PvP and they enjoy it. Plenty of things for everyone to do in the Galaxy.

 

[VirtueXOI]

Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

I've played mostly in Open, and found my group of in-game friends through being ganked. They've since gone on to be my mentors and help me learn the game, unlock engineers, etc. If I wasn't playing in Open, I wouldn't have met them, so I'm grateful I did. But my "introduction" came via interdiction and destruction.

1st , well i'm hoping for friendly people to meet , coop CG and pirates. I'll complain about gankers all my life unless they have some reason other than superiority / pseudo teachting / selfesteem). Tho I'd love to see some combat oriented gameplay that works in open for pvp , like real war or more elaborate CG.

2nd , i'm sure you will see me as an horrible person as i love to learns games trix about the game from other people. But my 3 friends are google , reddit and this forum. I also follow some stream about the game. The others stuff i discovered them myself. And i kinda like this part.

Lastlty I also realised that open have 0 advantage that are not pvp related . This game have 0 player coop aim (open only) of any sort , that are not player created.

So yeah the only change between open and solo is , pvp interaction ( or lucky encounter yeah).

Ps : I mostly play solo =).

 

[Northpin]

what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat?

What makes you think that when 2 people run into each other one of them has to die? This isn't Highlander.

found my group of in-game friends through being ganked.

Yea, when all you've got is a hammer, everything else is a nail...

 

[DemiserofD]

Pull it back a bit, buddy. I'm speaking very generally generally about the context of Elite in relation to the OP's query.

People play Elite thinking it's Star Trek. It's Bladerunner. You're welcome to nitpick the specifics to death without me.

It can be bladerunner, but that doesn't mean it needs to be the Avatar the last Airbender movie.

Six grown men dance for 30 seconds to lift a 5 pound rock.

 

[DemiserofD]

What I don't like about PvP is the human drama. I play games to escape reality with all its human drama. PvPers usually are seeking and creating exactly that. That's not my cup of tea. Fortunately, I don't have to. Doesn't mean I have to play in Solo or PG all the time, as Open isn't the gankfest as it often be looked upon. That's only the case in certain locations that are easily avoided. The rest of Open is pretty empty and meet someone comes almost close to a miracle.

@OP:
If you are interested in PvP or just how to avoid ganks, I suggest you contact Sir Ganksalot. He has founded a kind of academy where he teaches new and advanced players the basics and maybe even more...

OR they could just be smart and play in solo or pg! Problem solved!

Nobody should feel obligated to be another person's content.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

I liked the colonia threads better. This is a bit dull.

 

[Deleted member 257907]

I decided to play in open because I was bored. I wanted to see how other players dock at a station how they behave in chat, learn more about the game etc.
First time I went in open in an unengineered sidey I got blown up without warning in what i think was a single shot by cmdr LegoRobot.
I have since been only in open to have pvp fights.

Destroyed by CMDR LegoRobot	Shinrarta Dezhra	20 Jul 2020, 6:57am
Escaped an interdiction by Ivan Urbanek [NPC]	Venux	19 Jul 2020, 10:46pm
Interdicted by Ingwe [NPC]	Eurybia	19 Jul 2020, 9:43pm
Escaped an interdiction by Rob Ferguson [NPC]	78 Ursae Majoris	19 Jul 2020, 12:32am
Escaped an interdiction by Jon Nilsen [NPC]	Doris	19 Jul 2020, 12:23am
Escaped an interdiction by Kumquatt [NPC]	Tiethay	18 Jul 2020, 11:14pm
Interdicted by Haceldema Virii [NPC]	LTT 14019	18 Jul 2020, 10:37pm
Interdicted by Simon Rosbottom [NPC]	Doris	18 Jul 2020, 8:37pm
Escaped an interdiction by Tomaas Behr [NPC]	Adenets	18 Jul 2020, 7:18pm
Escaped an interdiction by Jaron Farrel [NPC]	Robigo	17 Jul 2020, 11:11pm
Escaped an interdiction by Lazar [NPC]	Ross 71	17 Jul 2020, 3:48am
Destroyed by George Fenner [NPC]	Col 285 Sector DV-D b13-3	16 Jul 2020, 10:06pm
Escaped an interdiction by Egbert Lazarou [NPC]	Targarku	15 Jul 2020, 5:58pm
Escaped an interdiction by Tankard [NPC]	Ceti Sector NS-T b3-1	15 Jul 2020, 1:32am
Escaped an interdiction by Christian Ott [NPC]	LHS 5061	14 Jul 2020, 11:49pm
Escaped an interdiction by Yancy Slide [NPC]	78 Ursae Majoris	14 Jul 2020, 3:31pm
Interdicted by Rayan Anderson [NPC]	NGC 6188 Sector LC-V c2-28	13 Jul 2020, 11:26pm
Escaped an interdiction by Abdel Kissami [NPC]	Deciat	13 Jul 2020, 12:44am
Destroyed by System Defence Force [NPC]

 

[Bottom Hat]

This thread has the potential to be fabulous and pull up the fun from the other ones that got closed. And that's not to say that the OP is at fault, as he's done well with the questions in my humble opinion.

Let's get the juices flowing again, and have some more "discussions" about things please - I enjoyed the recent fun between the two groups. I'm sure some readers will know what I'm referring to



@Danquememe good thread OP, genuinely meant. It's providing interesting reading and opinionative views

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

This thread has the potential to be fabulous and pull up the fun from the other ones that got closed. And that's not to say that the OP is at fault, as he's done well with the questions in my humble opinion.

Let's get the juices flowing again, and have some more "discussions" about things please - I enjoyed the recent fun between the two groups. I'm sure some readers will know what I'm referring to



@Danquememe good thread OP, genuinely meant. It's providing interesting reading and opinionative views

I'm the galaxy record holder for longest high wake. Pretty awesome.

But yes, this is a nice thread.

 

[Riverside]

My favourites are those that kick the beehive & complain when they get stung. Then sometimes it escalates & it gets all grindy. Some people are sore losers.

Some are sore winners too though, nobody wants to play with that kind of jerk again regardless of how they play.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

My favourites are those that kick the beehive & complain when they get stung. Then sometimes it escalates & it gets all grindy. Some people are sore losers.

One of the craziest parts about Elite is how the PvP fits into the emergent politics allowed by the open world nature of the mechanics and gameplay systems.

Some last for literal years. A single skirmish but a drop in a vast ocean of emergent content.

 

[Scurvydog00]

To address OP, I personally don't get the ganking thing and the Stockholm Syndrome most of the posters here seem to have defending those that gank. To me a ganker is like someone who can't handle a challenge and only wants to play the game on "easy". Some like the one's that post here may be helpful and try and educate you "post-gank" but I suspect those are by far the minority and most just want to grief you and move on to the next lamb that can't fight back.

But ultimately this is a non-issue as the game provides an option to avoid other players. Nothing needs fixed here.

 

[Cervantes01]

Getting guardian data is good fun lighting up the beacons in a team with other commanders.

 

[Riverside]

One of the craziest parts about Elite is how the PvP fits into the emergent politics allowed by the open world nature of the mechanics and gameplay systems.

Some last for literal years. A single skirmish but a drop in a vast ocean of emergent content.

For some, yes. Most aren't starting conflicts knowingly or deliberately, usually it's just some misunderstanding, easily sorted diplomatically. I enjoy that stuff. But some don't seem to be able to distinguish between an attack, and retaliation in response to their own attack. Then it escalates yes. Can be fun, but most just want to try to get along with those they meet.

I think I have said before Phisto, that although I don't PvP we play in a similar way. But you attack, generally I only defend or retaliate.