Patch Notes Fleet Carriers Update - Patch 4 Patch Notes

Yeh....refund in MMO seems a joke, except ... in other games, for example you bought some nice gun. Then they fixed "snipers". Ok, you can still use guns with "doctors". No problems.
Here, voice for FC is unique. I can't use it with any other ship. Look of FC is unique, I can't use with any ship.
So..if they changed FC in such way I can't use - problems come...
...any way, I don't really want refund. I want this situation fixed, at least to values we had initially, i.e. 4-5 hours of pure mining for 65000ly trip.
Welcome to the world of microstransactions and cosmetics.
Why do you think you have to buy a colour or pattern for every ship individually?

All that is purely cosmetic and has no gameplay effect. No one forced you to buy it. It was your choice to do so.
 
Welcome to the world of microstransactions and cosmetics.
Why do you think you have to buy a colour or pattern for every ship individually?

All that is purely cosmetic and has no gameplay effect. No one forced you to buy it. It was your choice to do so.
This is where alex says he bought the cosmetics when he thought FCs were good. Now they're not what he thought they were in the BETA(!!!) he wants his money back.

You know and I know that microtransactions don't work like that but alex will keep complaining.

Frankly, if anyone has to worry about the cost they shouldn't have bought one in the first place.

And round and round we go!
 
Problematic phrases:
"...as one had expected..." -- expectations are not Frontier's responsibility
"...under the impression..." -- ditto for impressions
"...subsequent changes make ownership impractical either from an in-game economic standpoint or an IRL time investment..." -- demonstrably inaccurate
"...left little recourse but to decommission..." -- emotionally charged hyperbole at best -- it's a choice, and the recourse is to adapt to the circumstances
"...waste the actual money they pumped into the game..." -- they still own the livery, it is not wasted unless they allow it to be wasted
"...for an asset that was not as advertised." -- Can you carry your fleet on a FC? Yes. Then it is as advertised. All other considerations are up to a Commander to implement, including the use of FCs for solo exploration, which has been shown to be perfectly feasible and profitable, even in the midst of the Great Rocket Tea Drought.

Completely incorrect on every point.

Expectations absolutely ARE Frontier's responsibility since they offered users an in-game object of not-insignificant value. We KNOW, by virtue of the fact that players balked at original upkeep costs, that PRIOR to purchasing an FC, players DID consider the cost of purchase, upkeep, and fuelling costs (whether that be in terms of in-game credits or real-life time spent acquiring fuel through mining).

Regarding running costs, I have running costs for my FC for several years so, for me, it's not an in-game credit issue. However, I absolutely refuse to simply waste money it took a fair amount of time to gather on over-priced tritium in the bubble, and while I am quite happy to mine as I explore, there is a limit to the amount of time I'm willing to invest in mining for X tons of tritium so I can continue to explore. Since this is the sentiment being expressed by a lot of people, your statement is"demonstrably inaccurate".

Decommissioning is NOT simply a choice -- for people who now find carriers either too expensive to maintain in terms of credit outlay or time, it's just a big hunk of metal in space that slowly sucks credits and which will need to be eliminated to avoid losing those credits. It's only a choice for those people who are not concerned about the credits being consumed just by owning a carrier AND who consider the time required to refuel the thing worth the effort. For some people, that's simply not an option - they DON'T have the time to spend keeping the thing fuelled under the new conditions and they can't afford to just have the thing sitting idle in space. Those people can't keep the FC because they literally can't afford to use it as intended (to take a fleet of ships significant distances) any longer, through no fault of their own.

On livery items, no it's not a choice. People bought something under a set of known conditions that they weighed to determine whether or not ownership of that item suited them. Then the same "person" who sold them that item changed those conditions of ownership POST-SALE after people invested real money on customisations. In the real-world, that's fraud and people have recourse.

"Can you carry your fleet on an FC?" - really? You're going to engage in such ridiculous over-simplification? FCs have at least TWO significant features: the ability to hold an entire fleet of ships AND the ability to move them around. The first feature is unchanged. The second feature IS changed by virtue of the fact that the conditions around being ABLE to keep moving the thing around have changed. It's no different to a scenario wherein FC were advertised to have an upkeep of 25M/week and then, after you bought one, FDEV decided to now charge you 25B/week; it's less extreme, to be sure, but it's the same scenario. People bought a thing of value based on known conditions (initial cost, continuing costs, time investment to keep an FC moving, etc.) and post-sale, those conditions were changed. Again, in the real-world this would be fraud; in-game, it's very poor customer relations and game design.
 
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...any way, I don't really want refund. I want this situation fixed, at least to values we had initially, i.e. 4-5 hours of pure mining for 65000ly trip.

I'd like initial values too: one where the goddamn system map (and HUD) isn't ten thousand carriers anywhere even vaguely interesting. :p

So far, only the NAV panel (left side) has any sort of useful filter...
 
On a separate note from Tritium woes has anyone else encountered the bug of VO’s floating around inside chunks of asteroid? They show on contacts as separated from the rock, but when collectors go to pick them up they are inside a chunk of asteroid! Took me a while to work out what was going on and why my collectors were suiciding themselves trying to pick a fragment up. It was only when I targeted a fragment and got up close and the VO fragment materialised from out of the rock I realised what was going on. Is this a new bug, an old one, or one that was fixed and has now reappeared?
 
Yes, the bug of mining fragments getting inside the chunck is still very much present. For me it only occurs to the ones I use the abrasive blaster on. So, I'm using collectors first when I blow tha rock and wait until the limpets collect all pieces... only then I start working with the abrasion blaster.
 
I thought I was going crazy but my crew on my FC gets replaced everytime I turn on the game. Decided to test it so last night I changed all my crew members to females logged out and just now logged in and I'm so happy to report I'm not going crazy and they did indeed change to a mixture of men and women.
 
Completely incorrect on every point.

Expectations absolutely ARE Frontier's responsibility since they offered users an in-game object of not-insignificant value. We KNOW, by virtue of the fact that players balked at original upkeep costs, that PRIOR to purchasing an FC, players DID consider the cost of purchase, upkeep, and fuelling costs (whether that be in terms of in-game credits or real-life time spent acquiring fuel through mining).

Regarding running costs, I have running costs for my FC for several years so, for me, it's not an in-game credit issue. However, I absolutely refuse to simply waste money it took a fair amount of time to gather on over-priced tritium in the bubble, and while I am quite happy to mine as I explore, there is a limit to the amount of time I'm willing to invest in mining for X tons of tritium so I can continue to explore. Since this is the sentiment being expressed by a lot of people, your statement is"demonstrably inaccurate".

Decommissioning is NOT simply a choice -- for people who now find carriers either too expensive to maintain in terms of credit outlay or time, it's just a big hunk of metal in space that slowly sucks credits and which will need to be eliminated to avoid losing those credits. It's only a choice for those people who are not concerned about the credits being consumed just by owning a carrier AND who consider the time required to refuel the thing worth the effort. For some people, that's simply not an option - they DON'T have the time to spend keeping the thing fuelled under the new conditions and they can't afford to just have the thing sitting idle in space. Those people can't keep the FC because they literally can't afford to use it as intended (to take a fleet of ships significant distances) any longer, through no fault of their own.

On livery items, no it's not a choice. People bought something under a set of known conditions that they weighed to determine whether or not ownership of that item suited them. Then the same "person" who sold them that item changed those conditions of ownership POST-SALE after people invested real money on customisations. In the real-world, that's fraud and people have recourse.

"Can you carry your fleet on an FC?" - really? You're going to engage in such ridiculous over-simplification? FCs have at least TWO significant features: the ability to hold an entire fleet of ships AND the ability to move them around. The first feature is unchanged. The second feature IS changed by virtue of the fact that the conditions around being ABLE to keep moving the thing around have changed. It's no different to a scenario wherein FC were advertised to have an upkeep of 25M/week and then, after you bought one, FDEV decided to now charge you 25B/week; it's less extreme, to be sure, but it's the same scenario. People bought a thing of value based on known conditions (initial cost, continuing costs, time investment to keep an FC moving, etc.) and post-sale, those conditions were changed. Again, in the real-world this would be fraud; in-game, it's very poor customer relations and game design.
Not with software. EULA’s specifically preclude any fitness for purpose or usability. The ED EULA is no exception.
“ 9.2 To the maximum extent permitted by law, we disclaim all representations, warranties, conditions or other terms (whether express or implied) including but not limited to implied warranties and/or conditions of merchantability, satisfactory quality, non-infringement of intellectual property rights and fitness for a particular purpose.“
It also includes this little gem!
“ 9.3 Without prejudice to the generality of the above, we do not warrant that the Game is error-free or that it will operate without interruption, nor that we will repair any errors in the Game.”
So any bug fixes are entirely at Frontier’s discretion!
 
I thought I was going crazy but my crew on my FC gets replaced everytime I turn on the game. Decided to test it so last night I changed all my crew members to females logged out and just now logged in and I'm so happy to report I'm not going crazy and they did indeed change to a mixture of men and women.
HR probably decided you needed to have a gender appropriate mix of crew! :)
 
Yes, the bug of mining fragments getting inside the chunck is still very much present. For me it only occurs to the ones I use the abrasive blaster on. So, I'm using collectors first when I blow tha rock and wait until the limpets collect all pieces... only then I start working with the abrasion blaster.
So has this been around for a while? When did it appear as I have not seen it before the latest patch.
 
Just flew through the LHS Graveyard System- the one with all the decommissioning carriers.

I just made Vice-Admiral. Can I buy one at half price? :)
 
It was mentioned it was fixed, but for me it is worse now than ever before...
I'm getting about the same number as usual overall, but it can get ridiculous sometimes depending on the rotations of the rocks and the idiot paths some limpets take when carrying a chunk. I've actually seen them plow into a rock and jam the chunk inside it in the process, wish I'd been recording it. One small ray of hope: in a lot of cases, the chunks find their way out again. But I rarely wait around until they do.

Almost as annoying and just as deadly for limpets is a chunk that gets wedged up snug with the rock's surface, then sits there while 5 limpets dash their pointy little heads on the rock trying to snag it, or sit and stare at it until they expire. In a 'Conda you can fly up and use the ship's nose to tap the chunk out into open space, but with most other ships that's either a no-go or painfully noisy and a bit of a shield stresser.
 
. In a 'Conda you can fly up and use the ship's nose to tap the chunk out into open space, but with most other ships that's either a no-go or painfully noisy and a bit of a shield stresser.
I did it all the time with my Python.. It has a nice pointy nose so it can get into all the little cracks.
 
On a separate note from Tritium woes has anyone else encountered the bug of VO’s floating around inside chunks of asteroid? They show on contacts as separated from the rock, but when collectors go to pick them up they are inside a chunk of asteroid! Took me a while to work out what was going on and why my collectors were suiciding themselves trying to pick a fragment up. It was only when I targeted a fragment and got up close and the VO fragment materialised from out of the rock I realised what was going on. Is this a new bug, an old one, or one that was fixed and has now reappeared?
I saw how and why this happens the other day. I saw a fragment rolling along the face of an asteroid and bouncing off it as expected, but when a limpet grabbed it, the fragment was pushed through the asteroid until the limpet hit the face of it and died releasing the fragment inside. So the bug appears to be that when the limpet grabs a fragment, they use the hitbox of the limpet alone instead of the limpet and fragment combined.
 
Not with software. EULA’s specifically preclude any fitness for purpose or usability. The ED EULA is no exception.
“ 9.2 To the maximum extent permitted by law, we disclaim all representations, warranties, conditions or other terms (whether express or implied) including but not limited to implied warranties and/or conditions of merchantability, satisfactory quality, non-infringement of intellectual property rights and fitness for a particular purpose.“
It also includes this little gem!
“ 9.3 Without prejudice to the generality of the above, we do not warrant that the Game is error-free or that it will operate without interruption, nor that we will repair any errors in the Game. ”
So any bug fixes are entirely at Frontier’s discretion!

Abridged version: "To the maximum extent permitted by law, we disclaim all satisfactory quality. We do not warrant that we will repair any errors in the Game. Like it or lump it, suckers!"

Yep, that sums up Frontier nicely :p
 
Abridged version: "To the maximum extent permitted by law, we disclaim all satisfactory quality. We do not warrant that we will repair any errors in the Game. Like it or lump it, suckers!"

Yep, that sums up Frontier nicely :p
I would like you, FD, to be as good at fixing mistakes as writing EULAS
 
Not with software. EULA’s specifically preclude any fitness for purpose or usability. The ED EULA is no exception.
“ 9.2 To the maximum extent permitted by law, we disclaim all representations, warranties, conditions or other terms (whether express or implied) including but not limited to implied warranties and/or conditions of merchantability, satisfactory quality, non-infringement of intellectual property rights and fitness for a particular purpose.“
It also includes this little gem!
“ 9.3 Without prejudice to the generality of the above, we do not warrant that the Game is error-free or that it will operate without interruption, nor that we will repair any errors in the Game.”
So any bug fixes are entirely at Frontier’s discretion!

I'm very familiar with EULAs; I'm a professional software developer and have been for a very, very long time, but this is not what we're talking about.

You didn't read what I wrote; I made no claim around legality or any sort of mandate that they address the issues. I was talking about customer expectations from a customer satisfaction point of view. Whether they fix issues or have any sort of legal requirement to do so is not relevant. Like any business, Frontier relies on customers to provide funds for ongoing development of the product; continually p**sing off your customer base is not a particularly effective way of ensuring an ongoing revenue stream so there is INCENTIVE to address these kinds of issues.
 
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