Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[ethelred]

Panic absolutely kills and cost me my first couple of ships.

Flying smart is the best measure, but once you are interdicted then it's having the wherewithal to last those 10-12 secs to be able to jump out.

It's totally doable, but I am in no way as cool as Mohgran to get bored of it - for me it's a shot of adrenaline each time!

 

[M4RTH4]

OK, I see your point but back up there Cowboy.

You ain't told me what you've seen when you jump into a system, get close to he star and then put your six facing it so you can't be interdicted.

You ain't told me what Ctrl B is telling you, or what and how many hollow squares you can see.

You ain't told me the route you're choosing to your destination.

You ain't told me what your outfitting is, you ain't told me you got an escape plan sorted, you ain't told me your high wake system.

Let me tell you if you get to the interdiction, you've already needlessly put yourself at risk.

None of this needs engineering.

So you're saying I should have all this sorted, follow a 10-step program fit for someone with a doctorate in management to keep myself far away from you, possibly including jumping out of system multiple times before you'd ever get the chance to interdict me, often burning myself because I'd have to be close to the star to do it and have the repair cost not only eat into my profits, but also may give my cargo hatch the slightest chance of malfunctioning, resulting in lost cargo?

I'll just stick with the advice Mohrgan's been giving out, something that shouldn't HAVE to be done because not everyone is as super invested into the game as you may be:

Private Group.

 

[TheVirus]

Hmmm yes. A good gonk really. Honestly credits are meaningless in this game. A CMDR I gonked a few weeks back was upset about his lost 7m, so I handed him 403m in credits via my FC. He's currently onboard said FC as we return from Rosette Nebula. Just because people blow you up certainly doesn't mean we won't help you in the game itself. But if you don't accept friend requests and at least try to engage, you'll never know. You want to fly in open? You have to be prepared, and clearly you weren't and then made a bad decision worse. Welcome to Open!

Lol, now this is more along the lines of what I was expecting to read from this post. Up until your reply I thought D'anquememe had some meaningful dialogue that had swayed me ever so slightly towards the idea that this was acceptable and part of the fun of the game.
Now, from your flagrant victim blaming response, I see it's exactly what it looks like; a toxic veteran player with more credits and time on his hands than he knows what to do with buying his friends a creating an environment where new players are recruit/victims. Welcome to the block list!

 

[ACowForAllSeasons]

Lol, now this is more along the lines of what I was expecting to read from this post. Up until your reply I thought D'anquememe had some meaningful dialogue that had swayed me ever so slightly towards the idea that this was acceptable and part of the fun of the game.
Now, from your flagrant victim blaming response, I see it's exactly what it looks like; a toxic veteran player with more credits and time on his hands than he knows what to do with buying his friends a creating an environment where new players are recruit/victims. Welcome to the block list!

I mean I had fun. Your ship was made of paper. Moralize about the ethics of ganking as much as you wish, I'm certainly not going to apologize. Don't want the risk - don't play in open. Those who accept it as a risk and learn have more fun in a much larger social environment - the very thing people say they want to play in Open for.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

So you're saying I should have all this sorted, follow a 10-step program fit for someone with a doctorate in management to keep myself far away from you, possibly including jumping out of system multiple times before you'd ever get the chance to interdict me, often burning myself because I'd have to be close to the star to do it and have the repair cost not only eat into my profits, but also may give my cargo hatch the slightest chance of malfunctioning, resulting in lost cargo?

I'll just stick with the advice Mohrgan's been giving out, something that shouldn't HAVE to be done because not everyone is as super invested into the game as you may be:

If you'd invested half as much effort into exploring why you can evade gankers as why you can't, you wouldn't even need PG in the first place.

 

[M4RTH4]

I mean I had fun.

Your fun isn't fun for him.
Your fun turns him off from potentially meeting new people as he plays, his chance of meeting another human organically as plummeted, probably at zero now.

Put yourself in his mind set, in his shoes, and his ship.
Not very fun then, is it?
"I would-" You're not seeing yourself in his light.

 

[ethelred]

So you're saying I should have all this sorted, follow a 10-step program fit for someone with a doctorate in management to keep myself far away from you, possibly including jumping out of system multiple times before you'd ever get the chance to interdict me, often burning myself because I'd have to be close to the star to do it and have the repair cost not only eat into my profits, but also may give my cargo hatch the slightest chance of malfunctioning, resulting in lost cargo?

I'll just stick with the advice Mohrgan's been giving out, something that shouldn't HAVE to be done because not everyone is as super invested into the game as you may be:

And that is totally cool, you got to have fun.

I'm only invested in surviving in Open.

These steps may seem complicated but they're really not, I am totally over egging the first bit - you'd only do that in a known hot-spot.

I hope you give it a chance one day so you can brag about getting a shield less t9 into farseer, wouldn't that be an achievement?

 

[M4RTH4]

Attention Get

Look up Mobius, they're doing what FDev will not: a PVE Version of Elite: Dangerous.

 

[ACowForAllSeasons]

Your fun isn't fun for him.
Your fun turns him off from potentially meeting new people as he plays, his chance of meeting another human organically as plummeted, probably at zero now.

Put yourself in his mind set, in his shoes, and his ship.
Not very fun then, is it?
"I would-" You're not seeing yourself in his light.

Not my problem. I'm not responsible for how others play the game nor when they suffer the consequences for their choices, informed or not. I got to have fun, see yet another fun ship explosion, and my friends had fun with me while watching. Been ganked before, instead of whining I got good. How you respond determines your level of enjoyment in open.

 

[M4RTH4]

instead of whining I got good.

You're not seeing yourself in his light.

 

[ACowForAllSeasons]

You're not seeing yourself in his light.

Yes, I just established this. Nor am I going to waste my time with the mental contortions necessary to feel sorry for someone else's poorly made decisions in a game where I play to shoot other ships. They have options to exercise if they don't wish to encounter this kind of emergent content.

 

[M4RTH4]

Yes, I just established this. Nor am I going to waste my time with the mental contortions necessary to feel sorry for someone else's poorly made decisions in a game where I play to shoot other ships. They have options to exercise if they don't wish to encounter this kind of emergent content.

'Everyone believes they're the hero of their own story. If you can't understand that - if you can't stand in the enemy's shoes, even for a second, and ask yourself why he thinks he needs to kill you - then you don't know what it means to be a soldier.'
In-game excerpt of Aden Tanner, applies strongly to real-life scenarios. That kind of speech is generally unoriginal, but that only gives more meaning to it.

You've given him the insight as to you why would blow him up for merely existing in the same instance as you. He does not like it, but he knows your reason. He knows WHY you must kill him. You're refusing to look at his reason for NOT being blown up, why HE thinks that you should just let him be.

In the short time I've known of both of you, he's grown from the experiences he's had, but you're stagnating. His hill could be a mountain, but you've progress little passed a lowland plateau.

For what little you care, I'm disappointed. I'm all but certain your father would be, as well.

 

[ACowForAllSeasons]

'Everyone believes they're the hero of their own story. If you can't understand that - if you can't stand in the enemy's shoes, even for a second, and ask yourself why he thinks he needs to kill you - then you don't know what it means to be a soldier.'
In-game excerpt of Aden Tanner, applies strongly to real-life scenarios. That kind of speech is generally unoriginal, but that only gives more meaning to it.

You've given him the insight as to you why would blow him up for merely existing in the same instance as you. He does not like it, but he knows your reason. He knows WHY you must kill him. You're refusing to look at his reason for NOT being blown up, why HE thinks that you should just let him be.

In the short time I've known of both of you, he's grown from the experiences he's had, but you're stagnating. His hill could be a mountain, but you've progress little passed a lowland plateau.

For what little you care, I'm disappointed. I'm all but certain your father would be, as well.

Ah, what a lovely collection of cliches. Though you need to work on your insults.

 

[M4RTH4]

Ah, what a lovely collection of cliches. Though you need to work on your insults.

If you want an insult, then you're about as enjoyable as an expired coupon.

 

[ACowForAllSeasons]

If you want an insult, then you're about as enjoyable as an expired coupon.

Now that's the kind of creativity I like to see in my insults. Unexpected and I got a good laugh. Bravo CMDR.

 

[Mohrgan]

Ah, what a lovely collection of cliches. Though you need to work on your insults.

Like the "Happy Ganker" isn't a cliche? Lol.

 

[M4RTH4]

Like the "Happy Ganker" isn't a cliche? Lol.

'Tee hee, oh I do love me some salt!'
Salt Addiction is a real thing, very common in mountain goats. Many goats die by falling to their death, all for a lick of that sweet sweet rock.

In the words of Michael Jordan, "Stop it. Get some help."
Break the crave, or you too might fall.

 

[Just Paul]

Sure, lemme just escape interdiction in my fat- trading vessel of a Type 9- oh wait, Type 9 has a hard enough time evading from NPCs, and Engineering exists for a super lasso.

T-9 escaping multiple interdictions against one of the best.

I survived an interdiction in an unengineered T-6 against a MurderHobo FdL and I wasn't even trying. Sir Ganksalot's school can help you to survive almost all situations. I might need to get some training after seeing my own evasion attempt.

 

[Danquememe]

I'm so glad I stumbled across this post. I think you'll be too.

D'anquememe, you and I had an interaction just the other day. By interaction I mean, you destroyed my ship instantly as I was leaving the engineer in Deciat.
...
Anyway. What I've learned from this post is the consensus of the community tells me that this game is either not for me, or that I should just play privately. I was hoping to organically meet new players in the galaxy and share awesome experiences, but this wasn't one of them.

o7 CMDR, sincere thanks for sharing your story with me. I want you to know I've read it through a couple times.

First, one minor clarification - my logs indicate you are actually a Novice. But I understand you've been away from the game for a while, and are in the process of helping a friend get into the game, and are yourself feeling rusty despite having done a bit of Painite mining back in the day. So I get where you're coming from.

Thank you for confirming that I did, in fact, send a friend request. I do always try to do that, even though they are not always accepted..

Now - what I'm going to say next isn't offered as an excuse or justification. It's just informational. The night we had our encounter, I was having trouble with some new software (VoiceAttack) that I'd installed to help me automate the process of sending my "hails" to Local chat. In your case, I'm pretty sure there was no message sent, so the attack surely came completely out of nowhere, as your story indicates. My intention is to use this software to help ensure I'm always able to send these messages prior to engaging, which is something I've committed myself to trying to do, thanks to this thread. But it wasn't till last night - a day after our encounter - that I got the bugs worked out. Meaningless for you, I understand, but again, just offering it as information.

Cow has already offered his, ahem, more blunt feedback. He was with me at Deciat and was the one who engaged you the second time. For my part, once I've ganked someone, that's it for that game session, for me. But everyone in Open operates by their own rules, those are just mine.

I'm going to share some things that I would have shared with you, had you accepted the friend request. They are not offered to chide you, nor tell you that you did anything wrong. They're just more information, you can do with it what you will.

• Your shields were really bad. I'm not saying this to make you feel bad, but because it's the truth. From memory, I rammed you and fired like once or twice with my frags, and your ship blew up. That should never, ever be enough to completely destroy a Krait Mk II that's built for Open. I fly one myself, and absolutely love it - my favorite ship. I would look at adding an A rated shield, 3-4 shield boosters, and some hull reinforcement and module reinforcement packages. None of that requires engineering, but will significantly increase your odds of survival in Open.
  
  
• When you're on the pad/underground at an engineer - or at a station - it's kind of a tough spot, because attackers flying around/above can target you and figure out what your build is, but you can't spot them as easily. I suggest you use a couple tools beforetaking off and leaving the safety of the pad's invulnerability:
  • Use CTRL + B to show your Bandwidth Meter. If you're not in a wing, meter readings of 1000kb/s or more mean that it's very likely another player is around. The more data, the more players.
  • Use your Comms panel History tab to show players you're instanced with. Any player with "NOW" next to their name is currently in your instance... and is potentially a threat.
  • If any of the players have bright-colored hair, facepaint, etc. - your "Budget ICP" look (great description hahah) - then assume they are hostile. They almost certainly will be. Not all gankers like to advertise in this way, but many do.
    
    
• Another thing to do as part of your pre-flight: select your destination system before you take off. If your checks above indicated that there are other players around - especially if they may be hostile - then try to select a system you can high wake to without having to orbit the planet to get clear Line of Sight. Remember that you can high wake even if you're still in the planetary "low space" instance - there's no need to go to supercruise first. You just need Line of Sight to the destination system.
  
  
• If, for whatever reason, the above seems like too much - just hop into Solo or PG, then fly out of the Engineer system or station that way. Same goes for going into the Engineer systems and "hot" stations. Until your ship and your skills are ready for dealing with what Open can throw at you, flying into an Engineering base - any Engineering base - is going to be a gamble. Engineering systems are not the place you're going to find wholesome, spontaneous interaction with other CMDRs. Which is not to say that other places can't be.

I've already shared my own story of getting ganked, and it sounds like you may have read it. From what you've said, it sounds like we were in roughly the same place, progression-wise, when our respective ganks happened. I had about 40M in the bank, because I'd successfully delivered one LTD run to market. I was on my way, in my Cobra Mk III mining build, when Cow interdicted me and blew me up in about as much time as it took you. After some deliberation, I did accept the friend request, and it was transformative for my experience and understanding of the game's mechanics.

Anyways, I know none of the above will make you feel any less bad. Clearly this is a situation where expectations and realities are clashing, and unfortunately, I happened to be the one to put a damper on your progress that night. Had it not been me, though, it almost certainly would have been someone else. There were a number of other gankers flying in that system at the same time, not to mention Cow who was instanced with us.

There's nothing stopping you from having the kinds of spontaneous interactions you seek with other players in Open. Please understand that I bear you absolutely no ill will as a player. I understand that the interaction was not to your liking, but it was a fair example of they types of interactions that are common in Open. They are a "feature" of the game. I'm not saying that to make you feel bad - again, this is a "facts are facts" type of statement. I understand that the game fails your expectations, and I don't blame you for having them or for being disappointed.

All I can say is that, as a fellow player of this game, if you ever need help with anything, please consider me a resource. I completely understand if you choose to decline.

Edits: typos

 

[thistle]

Which reminds me, I'll be opening my Curmudgeonly Scot training program soon.

If you are pleasant and unassuming but would like some lessons and private training on how to randomly derail the forum threads of others with sarcasm and pedantry, feel free to join my discord or add me as a friend. Actually please don't.