Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[Ian Skippy]

Had it not been me, though, it almost certainly would have been someone else. There were a number of other gankers flying in that system at the same time, not to mention Cow who was instanced with us.

This is the weakest thing I've heard a ganker say all week, and there is some pretty stiff competition. :/ In short; you annoyed a clearly unprepared 'weak' player. You did not have any serious expection of 'interesting human behavior' or 'surprise retaliation' or 'challenging combat' any of the stuff you try to pretend that drives you. You didn't even communicate much of anything, which is already an incredible feeble weak- last-line-of-defense excuse anyway.

Really why even bother with this charade? What do you get out of this? Why not just say what is so painfully obvious for all to see: you enjoy easy fights devoid of risks, you prefer easy fights against humans rather than AI because it makes you feel good, and you do not care how it impacts other people. You can just say it as it is perfectly within the rules. Honestly, at this point I get the distinct impression you are trying very hard to convince yourself, rather than anyone else, that what you are doing is anything other than what you know it is. I suggest you either come clean to yourself as to what it is you are doing, or change your behavior. Either are fine, but this kind of moral hide-and-seek with yourself is a waste of your time and energy, and ultimately leads nowhere.

Just make up your mind already as to what you really want to be and then just stand for it.

 

[Danquememe]

This is the weakest thing I've heard a ganker say all week, and there is some pretty stiff competition. :/

It's also the truth. Inconvenient, perhaps, but true regardless.

In short; you annoyed a clearly unprepared 'weak' player. You did not have any serious expection of 'interesting human behavior' or 'surprise retaliation' or 'challenging combat' any of the stuff you try to pretend that drives you. You didn't even communicate much of anything, which is already an incredible feeble weak- last-line-of-defense excuse anyway.

My profile picture makes it clear that I am a ganker. I self-identified as a ganker from my original post and have continued to do so throughout. Although I have in fact taken on feedback provided in this thread - and listened, sincerely, to all that has been written here - I continue to play as a ganker. I don't think I've ever intimated otherwise. I do ganker things. This thread has just provided verification of same.

Just make up your mind already as to what you really want to be and then just stand for it.

I think I have, and this thread has provided ample evidence of what I "really want to be." I'm sorry if that - what I want to be, and am - doesn't fit into a tidy category for you. But believe it or not, you can in fact play as a ganker, and do "ganker things," and the next moment turn around and help other players, including the ones you've just ganked. It's quite possible. I'm doing it. It's what I really want to be.

I get that you find this challenging. Bad guys are supposed to be bad, and good guys good, and this constant switching back and forth muddies that. But my point is simple: in a videogame, unlike in real life, we can be both good and bad at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

I'm so glad I stumbled across this post. I think you'll be too.

Especially more so if you use the convenient Block function built into the game. Just add people to it in game, the same way as you add friends - and it pretty much ensures you'll avoid having to instance with them again. Of course, you'll have to either encountered them before or at least know their names - but over time you can probably build up quite a good roadblock.

Sounds like you got a couple of names to start off with, at least!

 

[Danquememe]

Especially more so if you use the convenient Block function built into the game. Just add people to it in game, the same way as you add friends - and it pretty much ensures you'll avoid having to instance with them again. Of course, you'll have to either encountered them before or at least know their names - but over time you can probably build up quite a good roadblock.

The tools exist - FDev provides!

Adding to your block list can result in broken instances, but if it keeps a hated face out of your life, it's a small price to pay.

And of course Solo and PG block everyone except those with whom you have made an affirmative effort to engage with.

Speaking as a fan of Elite - and not a ganker, for a moment - I really have consistently expressed my wish that there was a better solution than the above, but for now, that's basically the breaks. Deal with Open, as do all who inhabit it, or curate your own experience in Solo and/or PG. It would be nice if there was a better solution for spontaneous PVE co-op only gameplay, but for right now, it doesn't seem to exist in this game.

 

[Danquememe]

Which reminds me, I'll be opening my Curmudgeonly Scot training program soon.

If you are pleasant and unassuming but would like some lessons and private training on how to randomly derail the forum threads of others with sarcasm and pedantry, feel free to join my discord or add me as a friend. Actually please don't.

Sir, I believe you've been given sufficient material to work with. I eagerly await your next broadside.

o7 CMDR, battening down hatches now.

 

[Ian Skippy]

It's also the truth. Inconvenient, perhaps, but true regardless.


My profile picture makes it clear that I am a ganker. I self-identified as a ganker from my original post and have continued to do so throughout. Although I have in fact taken on feedback provided in this thread - and listened, sincerely, to all that has been written here - I continue to play as a ganker. I don't think I've ever intimated otherwise. I do ganker things. This thread has just provided verification of same.


I think I have, and this thread has provided ample evidence of what I "really want to be." I'm sorry if that - what I want to be, and am - doesn't fit into a tidy category for you. But believe it or not, you can in fact play as a ganker, and do "ganker things," and the next moment turn around and help other players, including the ones you've just ganked. It's quite possible. I'm doing it. It's what I really want to be.

I get that you find this challenging. Bad guys are supposed to be bad, and good guys good, and this constant switching back and forth muddies that. But my point is simple: in a videogame, unlike in real life, we can be both good and bad at the same time.

Except you repeatedly and consistently keep pretending you are a griefer because 'AI doesnt provide a challenge', you are 'looking for a challenge' and 'humans are unpredictable' et cetera. Yet you knowingly attack those who provide the least challenge and the least unpredictableness. There is nothing challenging or unpredictable about blowing up a novice pilot in a poorly equipped ship. It is routine, boring, uneventful and easy in the extreme. It is this contrast I am referring to.

If you would just drop the act and say:"Yes, I am a griefer and attack easy targets that provide zero challenge in any way whatsoever, and I prefer easy human targets over easy AI targets because annoying other people makes me feel good." I'd have less of an issue with it. It is not 'being a bad person' that annoys me, and you do fit in a very tidy category. It is just the mealy-mouthed verbose pretentiousnes that is somewhat irritating.

Drop the act and get on with it.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

You're not seeing yourself in his light.

Of course not I'm not. Let me explain.

Consider this. A person buys Elite: Dangerous. One of the features of this game is combat against other players. They specifically mention "rogue" players that have turned against their follow CMDR. It also features an Open Play mode where without much searching you'd find out is very much a "everything goes" kind of thing.

This person then turns on the game, chooses Open Play, and then gets blown up by another player. They then complain about having their time wasted.

Do you know what this person is? A fool.

 

[Riverside]

Of course not I'm not. Let me explain.

Consider this. A person buys Elite: Dangerous. One of the features of this game is combat against other players. They specifically mention "rogue" players that have turned against their follow CMDR. It also features an Open Play mode where without much searching you'd find out is very much a "everything goes" kind of thing.

This person then turns on the game, chooses Open Play, and then gets blown up by another player. They then complain about having their time wasted.

Do you know what this person is? A fool.

Why don't you just play in Group or solo then? Instead of complaining I mean.

ETA or use the blocklist as Paul says FDev advised.

 

[M4RTH4]

Of course not I'm not. Let me explain.

Consider this. A person buys Elite: Dangerous. One of the features of this game is combat against other players. They specifically mention "rogue" players that have turned against their follow CMDR. It also features an Open Play mode where without much searching you'd find out is very much a "everything goes" kind of thing.

This person then turns on the game, chooses Open Play, and then gets blown up by another player. They then complain about having their time wasted.

Do you know what this person is? A fool.

That is from the Steam Store page from the game. It's marketing material, common wording for MMOs. Nowhere does it specifically warn of the swarms of gankers or the 'seal clubbers.' The tag of PVP is not even part of the tags on the Steam page, which need I remind you new plays will be checking out because the game is 75% off there currently. In comparison, Eve Online, also on Steam, has 2 separate PVP tags.

"They shoulda done their research!" Just like one needs to research Planetside 2 or World of Warcraft? Former of which is all about PVP in a huge team-based environment, and the latter has PVP as part of the huge over-arcing story. In both of Those games the PVP element is clear, as well, and is in the marketing material; blurbs, videos, screenshots, etc. A quick look should tell you what to expect. Elite's is rather vague.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

View attachment 186057

That is from the Steam Store page from the game. It's marketing material, common wording for MMOs. Nowhere does it specifically warn of the swarms of gankers or the 'seal clubbers.' The tag of PVP is not even part of the tags on the Steam page, which need I remind you new plays will be checking out because the game is 75% off there currently. In comparison, Eve Online, also on Steam, has 2 separate PVP tags.

When you understand ganking is a feature of Elite, it makes more sense.

"They shoulda done their research!" Just like one needs to research Planetside 2 or World of Warcraft? Former of which is all about PVP in a huge team-based environment, and the latter has PVP as part of the huge over-arcing story. In both of Those games the PVP element is clear, as well, and is in the marketing material; blurbs, videos, screenshots, etc. A quick look should tell you what to expect. Elite's is rather vague.

This isn't Planetside 2 or World of Warcraft. If you want more structured and balanced PvP, go play those games.

In the meantime we'll be here making trouble for people in the traditional way. Just like Braben intended.

 

[Riverside]

When you understand ganking is a feature of Elite, it makes more sense.



This isn't Planetside 2 or World of Warcraft. If you want more structured and balanced PvP, go play those games.

In the meantime we'll be here making trouble for people in the traditional way. Just like Braben intended.

And others can make trouble for you too, right? And your buddies, and other anarchies and lots & lots of splash damage. That's the game we all play, where a few people disregard the consequences & just let others deal with it.

Right?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

And others can make trouble for you too, right? And your buddies, and other anarchies and lots & lots of splash damage. That's the game we all play, where a few people disregard the consequences & just let others deal with it.

Right?

Yes, of course! If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

[Riverside]

Yes, of course! If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

So your team should get out of the kitchen then? I'm going on what's been said in this thread you understand. Those innocent bystanders like alt accounts & less PvP oriented allies & all that stuff.

How does one get out of the kitchen in BGS terms btw? Do you just stop supporting the faction?


Seems to me if someone were to play that way, while they are entitled to do so I'd think that was pretty selfish. Would you agree?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

So your team should get out of the kitchen then? I'm going on what's been said in this thread you understand. Those innocent bystanders like alt accounts & less PvP oriented allies & all that stuff.

How does one get out of the kitchen in BGS terms btw? Do you just stop supporting the faction?


Seems to me if someone were to play that way, while they are entitled to do so I'd think that was pretty selfish. Would you agree?

No, of course not.

Get some experience in guerrilla operations and then you'll understand.

 

[Danquememe]

Except you repeatedly and consistently keep pretending you are a griefer because 'AI doesnt provide a challenge', you are 'looking for a challenge' and 'humans are unpredictable' et cetera. Yet you knowingly attack those who provide the least challenge and the least unpredictableness. There is nothing challenging or unpredictable about blowing up a novice pilot in a poorly equipped ship. It is routine, boring, uneventful and easy in the extreme. It is this contrast I am referring to.

If you would just drop the act and say:"Yes, I am a griefer and attack easy targets that provide zero challenge in any way whatsoever, and I prefer easy human targets over easy AI targets because annoying other people makes me feel good." I'd have less of an issue with it. It is not 'being a bad person' that annoys me, and you do fit in a very tidy category. It is just the mealy-mouthed verbose pretentiousnes that is somewhat irritating.

Previously in this thread, I was told it would be better if I said something to players before interdicting them. Now that I have in fact begun doing that, I'm being told that, actually, that's not good enough, and in fact I really have no business attacking them at all.

We've already gone over, multiple times, the impossibility of knowing exactly who or what you're pulling when you pull a stranger. There's no airtight metric - neither pilot rank nor ship type - that will satisfactorily establish that a pilot is "OK" to target for PVP. Clearly "OK" is very situational, one of those "it depends" kinds of things.

So, it would appear that the real solution - if you'd be willing to own it - is for me to completely forgo any and all PVP unless it is explicitly agreed upon by both parties, arranged, and so forth.

Why don't you admit that this is the only kind of PVP which you find acceptable, and simply own that? What's holding you back?

 

[Riverside]

Previously in this thread, I was told it would be better if I said something to players before interdicting them. Now that I have in fact begun doing that, I'm being told that, actually, that's not good enough, and in fact I really have no business attacking them at all.

We've already gone over, multiple times, the impossibility of knowing exactly who or what you're pulling when you pull a stranger. There's no airtight metric - neither pilot rank nor ship type - that will satisfactorily establish that a pilot is "OK" to target for PVP. Clearly "OK" is very situational, one of those "it depends" kinds of things.

So, it would appear that the real solution - if you'd be willing to own it - is for me to completely forgo any and all PVP unless it is explicitly agreed upon by both parties, arranged, and so forth.

Why don't you admit that this is the only kind of PVP which you find acceptable, and simply own that? What's holding you back?

I think the trick is to not care what others think of you & just get on with doing whatever you want to do.

Meaningful PvP will almost certainly be non-consensual.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

I think the trick is to not care what others think of you & just get on with doing whatever you want to do.

Meaningful PvP will almost certainly be non-consensual.

What does that even mean in an in-game context, anyway?

If you've clicked on "open", you've consented to the possibility of PvP. I don't see what's so difficult about this.

 

[Riverside]

What does that even mean in an in-game context, anyway?

If you've clicked on "open", you've consented to the possibility of PvP. I don't see what's so difficult about this.

We had the discussion about consent earlier in this very thread


Starts here:

Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

The best part is that both of us had named our ships "Mosquito" for our respective harmless-bothering antics so we had a spiderman-pointing moment in chat. many would say Mosquito's are far from harmless! "mosquitoes are important vectors of diseases such as malaria, yellow fever...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

We had the discussion about consent earlier in this very thread


Starts here:

Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

The best part is that both of us had named our ships "Mosquito" for our respective harmless-bothering antics so we had a spiderman-pointing moment in chat. many would say Mosquito's are far from harmless! "mosquitoes are important vectors of diseases such as malaria, yellow fever...

forums.frontier.co.uk

And I'm guessing that you're still deluding yourself that one's "consent" means anything within the context of the game's rules governing open?

 

[Riverside]

And I'm guessing that you're still deluding yourself that your "consent" means anything within the context of the game's rules?

Just read the thread, it's been discussed already.