Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

I honestly cannot even imagine person coming from combat flightsim enjoying this even a little. Hell, most flight arcades I've played in my days had far better balance, combat and thousand times better variety.
Oh, combat flight sims don't have any balance at all, at least, not if they're good and accurate simulators. They strive to make the simulator as accurate a representation of real-world flight performance as they can, on the full understanding that some planes are simply better than their historical opposition.

Combine that with sim pilots who have many times more hours than actual real-world pilots did, and almost all of it in combat, with zero real world consequence for death, and you have a situation where a superior pilot will be in a superior airplane and you, as a newb, are going to have to learn how to deal with it. And those pilots will fly the same "best" plane on every single map, and they've not only mastered it, they've mastered precisely how to fly it against whatever you're in, to exploit every weakness your plane has and turn it to their advantage.

It's tremendously fun, to be honest. Because eventually, if you stick with it, you do get better, and that feels cool. And you then become the grizzled veteran turning all those hours of practice to your own advantage, and the cycle repeats.

Elite is, by all accounts, exactly like this. There is a huge amount of nuance, there's the whole "build" aspect which is completely obviated in flight sims (where your plane is 100% capable from the get-go, every flight, no grinding required), and there's a much greater variety of options overall. After all, in Elite, the ships are not limited to historical loadouts, they can be whatever you want, within reason. It's far more diverse in every way.

If anything, competitive PVP in Elite is quite balanced, if only because everyone is basically flying one of a handful of different variations of FDL builds, and pilot skill is the real differentiator.
 
"Ganking" is the most abused term in this game/community, cmdrs can basically avoid any random encounter with any ship, just learn how to do it and you'll be fine.
I actually went to deciat where that dead-end engineer lives just to meet some gankers, only to find nobody in SC. But while docking I did get shot by some rails. I tell the new players to go to Elvira’s place as she is better connected!
 
Uniquely to Elite - at least in my experience - is this attitude that PVP is "imposed" on players who just want to be left alone. I come from a combat flight sim background, as noted, and in those games, you attack whatever target you see, and if you can catch them unaware - and "bounce" them, killing them in a single pass - so much the better.
I think that's the crux of the matter, my friend. We all come to the game with different expectations because it's advertised as being all things at once.

You come from combat flight sims such as DCS, where shooting other players IS the game. It's what it's designed for, just like, say, CoD. I doubt very many people play CoD just to explore the map and build a campfire while watching the stars. I know I never played any of the combat flight sims with the expectation of spending my time enjoying the scenery. So it's understandable that you don't see blowing other ships up as a big deal when you come to ED, seeing as ganking is definitely allowed by the game. It's what you're looking for, so it makes no sense for you that others get salty over it. I completely understand that now, having seen the other side of the coin and actually spent time, like you have, trying to listen and, more importantly, understand the "other side", which isn't really all that "other" once we get down to it. We just rarely do get down to it, and that's why I've enjoyed this particular thread so much, because it has certainly given me an opportunity to do that.

Others come from other games, and see ED as this game where you can hang out, make cool discoveries, meet new people and go on adventures together and so on. They may come from Naval Action PvE (I've played that too), they may come from any number of Co-op games, and thus expect ED to be pretty much like that. Sure, there's danger out there, it says so right on the tin, but you might expect it to be rare or to at least make sense when you find yourself in it. As I said, I played Naval Action PvE because you knew when you got attacked, there was always a "good reason" that it happened, and by "good" I mean "something you could avoid by not doing certain things."

Sid Meier's Pirates had the same thing, even though it was single player, in that you just knew that if you decided to sail into the waters of a nation that your nation was at war with, trouble would likely pop up. If you weren't up to that, you just stayed in your nation's waters. It all made sense. Or the original single player Elite, where you knew that you'd better bring your best game if you entered an Anarchy (and you'd get much better rewards if you succeded) and you'd be pretty safe if you stayed in High Sec systems. I never got "ganked" by an NPC in that game without knowing, without anybody needing to tell me so, exactly why it happened. Unfortunately, FDev are either disinterested or unable to implement a C&P system that actually works in ED, but that's another point.

My main point, TL;DR, is that we all come here expecting different things. That doesn't mean that any of us are playing the game "wrong" (excluding griefers, that nasty tiny minority), it just means that we're different and, as such, tend to not understand each other. I've learned a lot from the forums about people I used to think about as wastes of skin and now would thoroughly love to share a beer with because of this dialogue, and that's great.

More dialogue, less name-calling (and that goes for me too, a lot), and we can all eventually learn to have fun together.
 
Misha, thanks for the nice message, I really appreciate it. This thread has been very instructive for me, too.

Tongue in cheek question: if someone asks for tips on gank evasion, which this person did, is this too much to reply with?
 

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And then the miner, who says he's new to the game, creates a 134 page thread repeatedly asking why you don't understand it's really a forced mining/hauling game.
Who would read such boring tripe? :LOL:

But yeah, I'd have not purchased the game in the first place.
 
Sure, there's danger out there, it says so right on the tin, but you might expect it to be rare or to at least make sense when you find yourself in it.
^THIS
I'm new to the game myself,I don't even have 170 hours under my belt. So I guess i'ts only fair for me to find ganking frustrating, especially when you're minding your own business in Ochosi grinding for federation ranks and ships that you have no chance of fending off just pull you out of Hyper space and have their way with you as you aimlessly struggle to run away.
I saw that the OP has a certain gaming background and that said background conditioned his expectation from ED. From my own experience with other PVP MMO I classify this as seal clubbing and people who did it had a bad reputation because it drove people away from the game and contributed to the overall toxic environment of the games.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the impression I got from reading this is that I should be thankful that I got ganked because that's how you make friends in Elite?
Anyway I must just be (un)lucky cause in those 160 somethign hours I played, a decent amount (like 50hours) in PG, I got ganked 3 times, 2 of those just this weekend, and once by none other than Jesus himself. The other time it was some guy saying that all ships had to remain docked otherwise they'd be put down because of the "WuWu virus". Didn't have any of those bonding experiences mentioned in the thread, such as paying for the credits lost, giving tips etc. Unless being killed by the Jesus guy himself is supposed to be a badge of honnor.

I'll concede that this thread did change my view of gankers a little bit, props to you for that OP. But as far as I'm concerned I'd be happier if I met asfew gankers as possible, at least for now.
 

Deleted member 182079

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I actually went to deciat where that dead-end engineer lives just to meet some gankers, only to find nobody in SC. But while docking I did get shot by some rails. I tell the new players to go to Elvira’s place as she is better connected!
You'll find some in Dav's Hope, where I spent the afternoon today.

I don't know, I find it unsatisfying dealing with (some) gankers. They tend to fly the same old ships (FdL/Mamba, Krait 2/Phantom, maybe a Chieftan if you're lucky), often fitted with space shotguns and shield-tanked so you end up constantly jousting or getting frag pellets in your face which is so OP'd you'll have to fly a shield tank of your own. LR rails reverski with packhounds is another classic although I haven't seen those recently.

You won't really be able to defeat them because they won't stay to eat the rebuy once they realise you gain the upper hand - but if they gang up on you and you run you get taunts via comms. My refusal to have any meta PvP builds in my fleet doesn't do me any favours but why should I spend mats on a ship I can't use for any other purpose if all I get is the above.

I sometimes play "with" them now and then but ultimately apart from target practice it's kind of pointless to engage with them one way or another. Blocking is one option but I do shy away from that especially these days where instancing with other players is already bad enough as it is.
 
I'm new to the game myself,I don't even have 170 hours under my belt. So I guess i'ts only fair for me to find ganking frustrating, especially when you're minding your own business in Ochosi grinding for federation ranks and ships that you have no chance of fending off just pull you out of Hyper space and have their way with you as you aimlessly struggle to run away.

I agree, being a bit of a "carebear" myself. The solution I've found to this while still keeping the "adrenaline rush" of Open, is to do what even gankers do, and that is to switch to Solo/PG whenever I'm doing something that would lead to intense frustration on my part if all of my work got blown away by somebody looking for "fun" (for certain values of fun). For me, that's mainly unloading explo data since that represents a lot of hours gathering tags (I couldn't care less about the money, the way the game works now), and occasional trips to engineers to get an experimental plugged in, but that's only because I have most of the blueprints that I'll ever use pinned already. I DO understand your frustration, though, but it's fairly easy to avoid even if you don't want to lose the potential for fun and danger that Open provides: Just don't use it (Open) when it could cause you anything more important than a rebuy.

From my own experience with other PVP MMO I classify this as seal clubbing and people who did it had a bad reputation because it drove people away from the game and contributed to the overall toxic environment of the games.

Not all of them are. The ones who find explicit joy in the misery and frustration of other gamers are a vanishingly small minority, and they can frankly go [insert string of expletives not appropriate for a family forum here] themselves. They're not worth wasting a breath on, and they're exceedingly rare. Just block them if you ever meet one, that's what the function is there for and I've yet to find somebody obnoxious enough to warrant a place on that list, but I'm sure I will some day and I'll block the sack of filth in a second and sleep soundly that night. If they're bad enough for me to block them, and they'd really have to go out of their way, I couldn't give a rat's ARX.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the impression I got from reading this is that I should be thankful that I got ganked because that's how you make friends in Elite?

No. It's not the only way. It's one way of doing so, because they could be genuinely helpful, but you most definitely don't have to. And you don't have to feel that you're playing it "wrong" if you want nothing to do with them, because you're not. You can't enjoy yourself "wrong." Bottom line, you should only ever be thankful in game and out of it, if a person provides you with something of value to you. If they don't, you owe them absolutely nothing. Ever.

The other time it was some guy saying that all ships had to remain docked otherwise they'd be put down because of the "WuWu virus".

OK, I personally find that one a bit funny, but that's because I'm sick that way. You don't have to. Just eliminate him or her permanently by using block or just do what you can to avoid that one in the future by learning how to run. It's not all that hard, and it comes in useful in a lot of situations, not just gank attempts.

But as far as I'm concerned I'd be happier if I met asfew gankers as possible, at least for now.

And that's fine. I felt that way too. Particularly the way it is with the learning curve being more of a learning cliff. Add to that the difference between engineered and non-engineered (which basically means, to a new player, "engineered or don't even bother") as it is now, the balance is utterly and completely out of whack. Just do what you feel is most fun for you, and don't give two farthings about epithets such as "carebear" and then, when you feel that you're ready for some more danger (or not, it's not like it's a requirement), you can gradually step it up.
 
You'll find some in Dav's Hope, where I spent the afternoon today.

I don't know, I find it unsatisfying dealing with (some) gankers. They tend to fly the same old ships (FdL/Mamba, Krait 2/Phantom, maybe a Chieftan if you're lucky), often fitted with space shotguns and shield-tanked so you end up constantly jousting or getting frag pellets in your face which is so OP'd you'll have to fly a shield tank of your own. LR rails reverski with packhounds is another classic although I haven't seen those recently.

You won't really be able to defeat them because they won't stay to eat the rebuy once they realise you gain the upper hand - but if they gang up on you and you run you get taunts via comms. My refusal to have any meta PvP builds in my fleet doesn't do me any favours but why should I spend mats on a ship I can't use for any other purpose if all I get is the above.

I sometimes play "with" them now and then but ultimately apart from target practice it's kind of pointless to engage with them one way or another. Blocking is one option but I do shy away from that especially these days where instancing with other players is already bad enough as it is.
When I first started playing elite I had this romantic notion that High Sec systems would be 'safe' and anarchies would be some kind of rat hole full of the worst scum of the galaxy, and you would only go there if you were a crack pilot looking for a super high paying mission or there would be a super high paying trade route for those willing to risk their ship.
None of that really came about and the current ganker system (Deciat) is high sec.
Add to that the fact that ganking is often done badly (I want them to send comms and friend requet after as a minimum), and we have what we have ..
 
When I first started playing elite I had this romantic notion that High Sec systems would be 'safe' and anarchies would be some kind of rat hole full of the worst scum of the galaxy, and you would only go there if you were a crack pilot looking for a super high paying mission or there would be a super high paying trade route for those willing to risk their ship.
None of that really came about and the current ganker system (Deciat) is high sec.
In other words, you got the game in the same false hopes that I had, namely that it would be similar to its predecessors.

I feel your pain, I really do.
 
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