You can easily toggle turrets on and off by assigning them to a fire group. You can even slave them to one of your fixed weapons, since once they start firing they really don't need a dedicated trigger.
Why Turrets are Hot Garbage - Fixed v Gimbaled v Turreted (Video)
- Thread starter Exigeous
- Start date
That is why I use a lot of different fire groups. So I can build different weapon sets.
FDL H multi-cannon gimbled. M 2x turreted pulses. M 2x Pack-hounds. As you said, I can slave the Pack-hounds to both the Multi-cannon and the Pulses.
UN-targeting and re-targeting will also stop turrets. Hitting the hostile button, will automaticity re-target the turrets, not matter where the ship is, as long as you have said ship, is within the turrets, line of sight. Hit the fire button and off they go. But you already know all of this stuff.
When I was first learning how to use plasma accelerators and was doing wing fights in San Tu, I decided to use a medium turreted emissive multicannon along with the otherwise all PA loadout.
1. Wing fights in San Tu are challenging enough that between dodging rocks and plasma aim, I knew that adding another fire group would only complicate things and not help me improve at my then skill level.
2. Silent running has become a too often occurence, because the heat bug was fixed by allowing ships to sustain ridiculous amounts of heat. So to help the team out, an emissive is a must.
3. The multicannon reticle shares the same vector as the PA reticle but is closer to the hostile. When I was learning PA aim, I found it helpful to first track the MC reticle and then go to the PA reticle.
Certainly, if one considers only amount of damage, turrets are terrible. However, for learning purposes, they can be helpful.
1. Wing fights in San Tu are challenging enough that between dodging rocks and plasma aim, I knew that adding another fire group would only complicate things and not help me improve at my then skill level.
2. Silent running has become a too often occurence, because the heat bug was fixed by allowing ships to sustain ridiculous amounts of heat. So to help the team out, an emissive is a must.
3. The multicannon reticle shares the same vector as the PA reticle but is closer to the hostile. When I was learning PA aim, I found it helpful to first track the MC reticle and then go to the PA reticle.
Certainly, if one considers only amount of damage, turrets are terrible. However, for learning purposes, they can be helpful.
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Interesting to see other people's opinions on the subject. For me personally, the damage loss on turrets is just way too much to both using on anything besides a size 1 hardpoint (and then just to apply specials). But I also mainly stick to fixed only weapons. That's not really for efficiency. It's mostly because I cackle with glee whenever my targets chaff (bonus if my wingmates are complaining about it.)
Also, using fixed only weapons will have you change your flight patterns to accommodate the weapon type. I enjoy the challenge.
Also, using fixed only weapons will have you change your flight patterns to accommodate the weapon type. I enjoy the challenge.
I'm really surprised your video doesn't go into detail on what I would have thought was the main reason why people use turrets. Namely to have turrets on top of the ship which can be tracking your quarry (and putting an admittedly small but constant amount of damage into it) when the turn rate of your ship is unable to match that of your target and keep it within the sights of your fixed and gimballed weapons. To accurately judge if they're "hot garbage" or simply "warm fudge sauce" you'd have to do some maths based on the idea that, as gimballed weapons you might have them hitting your target 30% of the time whereas, as turrets, they might be hitting the target 60% of the time.
Excuse the crudity of the illustration ...
Excuse the crudity of the illustration ...
I'm really surprised your video doesn't go into detail on what I would have thought was the main reason why people use turrets. Namely to have turrets on top of the ship which can be tracking your quarry (and putting an admittedly small but constant amount of damage into it) when the turn rate of your ship is unable to match that of your target and keep it within the sights of your fixed and gimballed weapons. To accurately judge if they're "hot garbage" or simply "warm fudge sauce" you'd have to do some maths based on the idea that, as gimballed weapons you might have them hitting your target 30% of the time whereas, as turrets, they might be hitting the target 60% of the time.
Excuse the crudity of the illustration ...
Right, but that's just the issue actually. If you're piloting well, your ability to maintain constant firing with gimbals far, FAR outstrips the damage potential of the turrets. Due to tracking speed, a well trained pilot with gimbals will meet or exceed a poor pilot's time on target with turrets, nevermind the damage differential.
So that is where Exigeous is coming from. He is a good pilot and time on target is not an issue (except I imagine in PvP against highly skilled opponents). Therefore turrets to him are a straight DPS loss. And given that level of skill has been reached, he is 100% correct. That's why he's so boisterous in his opinion. He's right.
But it's also true that not everyone is at that level, or doesn't want to work to get it. Maybe thinking about flight patterns and pulling maneuvers isn't the fun part of the game to the turret user. Maybe they just want to chill out and just do some combat on the side in between trade/mining runs or whatever. For them, turrets are better because they haven't hit the skill floor where gimbals are just better. That person is also right.
With engineered distributor (charge enh./cluster cap.), an all-beam-turret (all efficient/thermal vent) Conda with Elite copilot, loaded with juicy cargo can be a good stationary "mat collector".
Just sit back in Res site (not Haz), let pirates come and let autoshooting and wingmate do their work. All you have to do is fire enough colector limpets
IMHO many ppl missed Exig's point, turrets are not as good as primary weapon. Guess he's encouraging ppl to at least try to use something harder-hitting as primary and have turret as backup.
Just sit back in Res site (not Haz), let pirates come and let autoshooting and wingmate do their work. All you have to do is fire enough colector limpets
IMHO many ppl missed Exig's point, turrets are not as good as primary weapon. Guess he's encouraging ppl to at least try to use something harder-hitting as primary and have turret as backup.
Spot on. Oh, and before Ex jumps on my "Max turn rate of ship" label perhaps I should point out that I suppose what I mean is "max rate as perceived by the ship's current pilot".
Oh for sure. You wouldn't want turrets as a primary weapon, that'd be hot garbage!
Is Ex really making that point? (seems kinda obvious).
I'm really surprised your video doesn't go into detail on what I would have thought was the main reason why people use turrets. Namely to have turrets on top of the ship which can be tracking your quarry (and putting an admittedly small but constant amount of damage into it) when the turn rate of your ship is unable to match that of your target and keep it within the sights of your fixed and gimballed weapons. To accurately judge if they're "hot garbage" or simply "warm fudge sauce" you'd have to do some maths based on the idea that, as gimballed weapons you might have them hitting your target 30% of the time whereas, as turrets, they might be hitting the target 60% of the time.
Excuse the crudity of the illustration ...
Yeap, this.
Nope, not really. According to the opening video, Gimbals have only roughly 35% more damage than the turrets (and a much larger power/distributer draw) while the turrets can usually offer a much better time-on-target than that.
Not to mention that at longer distances, especially vs small targets, the gimbals are losing damage not only due to fall-off but also due to the damn wobble.
I remember my starting days of taking a Cutter in a haz res. The wings of 3 dbx/dbs where really, and i mean Really annoying. At that time they were the reason that i switched from an all-gimbal setup to a huge-mc, rest beam turrets.
Congrats if you got it. I think I did too. Seeing a few replies on YouTube, not all were that lucky.Oh for sure. You wouldn't want turrets as a primary weapon, that'd be hot garbage!
But, we may digress from topic... Sorry I even mentioned the obvious in IMHO part. o7
Why not? Granted, all my turret boats include a single fixed long range beam, but this is more for finishing off fleeing ships than it is for delivering raw DPS (though it does that as well). The four SRB MCs on my Mamba can destroy most NPCs all on their own. As for PvP, well that's a whole different realm of meta sorcery. Still, I've taken out less experienced players in my turret speedboat.
Absolutely, but the video seem to be posted as a tutorial. For other cmdrs to watch and learn.
Which makes me think the people needing the tutorial may find themselves in the position of losing damage with gimbaled over turrets, especially in whale ships with low turning rate.
Granted, that might be an incentive for the said cmdrs to up their piloting skills, but that doesn't seem to be the primary aim of the tutorial.
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Perhaps it's more about weapon placement but from a functional design perspective I picture ships as having some forward facing hardpoints which are intended for your primary weapons (fixed or gimballed) that are bound to your triggers and then some additional hardpoints that are better suited to turret placement as per my diagram. It just wouldn't have occured to me to stick turrets in those front facing hardpoints. I'm a very mediocre combat pilot tho' so I really wouldn't listen to me, I guess I'm more interested in whether something "feels" right than how it's numbers stack up in practice.
Deleted member 192138
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It's very hard to learn and improve if you're always crutching on tools that do the work for you. Why develop a more dynamic and responsive flying style to get the benefit of weapons you're not practising with?
Why does an excavator have shovels, why are there computers at all if there were bills.
Cars, weapons, everything is improving and progressing.
At least remember the Indiana Temple of Destiny, when a Hindu ran out and began masterfully waving a saber.
The Indian just pulled out a revolver and killed him.
Cars, weapons, everything is improving and progressing.
At least remember the Indiana Temple of Destiny, when a Hindu ran out and began masterfully waving a saber.
The Indian just pulled out a revolver and killed him.