People can ask what they want, but I am not sure if this is the project for people who want reasonable requests or expectations to be met.
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
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People can ask what they want, but I am not sure if this is the project for people who want reasonable requests or expectations to be met.
Viajero
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Yeah, he really seems to be that bad of a manager, at all levels. Well except perhaps selling dreams that is."Haha, look at CR play his own game, its like he just seen it for the first time. He really doesn't care at all!"
"Wow, CR hasn't commented at all about the game he so clearly cares so much about, he must have been removed!"
"Yeah, I cannot think of any other possible explanation."
Where are Chris, Sandi and Erin? Why did Chris publish a letter from the chairman when $200 million was reached but not $300 million?
Common exit strategy for founders of companies is to sell portions of the company to outside investors and retain a board seat.
Contract stipulates they are moved into non-executive roles while retaining their share of the company after certain amount of time or conditions, which gives them a percentage income of the companies' profits while removing their right to attend or vote on board meetings or have any say in the running of the company.
Often this is not even communicated internally to avoid leaks, though everyone knows, the founders are no where to be seen and the company moves under new management. Later change of management is communicated via press releases or the like.
Founders being removed from their role often comes with an NDA about speaking on behalf of, or about, the company.
Multiple first hand experiences of the above, as I'm sure have others.
Contract stipulates they are moved into non-executive roles while retaining their share of the company after certain amount of time or conditions, which gives them a percentage income of the companies' profits while removing their right to attend or vote on board meetings or have any say in the running of the company.
Often this is not even communicated internally to avoid leaks, though everyone knows, the founders are no where to be seen and the company moves under new management. Later change of management is communicated via press releases or the like.
Founders being removed from their role often comes with an NDA about speaking on behalf of, or about, the company.
Multiple first hand experiences of the above, as I'm sure have others.
"Haha, look at CR play his own game, its like he just seen it for the first time. He really doesn't care at all!"
"Wow, CR hasn't commented at all about the game he so clearly cares so much about, he must have been removed!"
"Yeah, I cannot think of any other possible explanation."
Well, i've been trying to think of other explanations apart from him having been pushed out or exiting under his own accord but struggling to find a reason.
A man who was the leading face of the project, who seemed to love the limelight, and of course being the CEO of the company, stops all communications for around 8 months. Not a tweet, not an appearance on any show, not even a letter congratulating backers on 300 million goal.
In a year when the company has face covid and also seen a gutting of their roadmaps, surely the CEO's appearance would do a lot to reassure some backers that all was good.
Even if he was knee deep in code like some think, surely he has the time for a quick missive?
It has been speculated he's going through a divorce with Sandi and of course, with kids involved, that's not going to be a pleasant experience. Maybe he has withdrawn because of that. But even so, its been a very long time, and even if a very messy divorce, he still has obligations to the company and backers.
The most logical conclusion i've found is he is gone or has been gagged. Another option, as has been speculated, is that he is under investigation, and his lawyers have advised him to say nothing, to stop all pulbic communications.
It may be, even if there is a gag order on CR from investors, they might put out a very carefully crafted letter with his name on it, one that has been veoted by all interested parties, in order to make backers think he's still involved.
But no such letter has appeared....
I've long noticed that the reported focus (and all the soon to be available excitement) has been swapped between SC and SQ42 routinely, and in a manner that has seemed to allow discontentment to dissipate, and for people to argue that any lack of progress of one was down to the huge progress of the other.
As you note this has never made any sense to me as they were originally one game, and must still share very considerable underpinnings. But then. I know nothing about game development.
And it was knowing of what happened on Freelancer that kept my financial involvement to zero and my expectations very low.
Havent the 'signatures' on the letters changed over time? may mean nothing of course.
The only problem I have with this is that no investor in their right mind would go anywhere near this project. At best its turning into a crowd-funded PR nightmare with potentially all sales made already. At worst its possibly a scam. At best it will take how much to finish? And where is that money coming from? It may have happened already to some degree but not like people want it to be. I think if Calder had had secure safeguards in place there would have been some more evidence of this by now, surely he must be hearing the news and want a public statement to keep his investment safe, unless he doesnt have that power?
There has to be a long term expectation of profit and a return on investment (ROI) usually from a product or service before an investor will take over. I don't see any analysis concluding this unless they have been given a release date, a final balance of how much to completion and expectations of sales of that product or service. Nobody in their right mind is investing with the expectation of taking future backer funds as their ROI, they expect a product.
Wise investors of the category needed would usually specialise in fields they know or have experts in that field to advise. I cant see any of them thinking this is a good investment opportunity, unless they are sold on the continued public funding model. Other investors may take a more 'risky' approach and invest in people they trust and believe in if they think that person is investable and knows what they are doing. (TenCent investing in Fdev is a bit like this, they arent a games investor as such, they are a hedge fund but they believe in Frontier business model and its one of their most profitable investments - the problem is that this news alone may make other investors act less wisely in other games dev companies as they think they are all as good as this one. TenCent have been very wise but their success may lead others to be less wise and careful. But even then the Accountants and Lawyers should be advising against it)
So 10 Questions for the Chairman:
1. What is the expected release date of SQ42 & SC?
2. What is the expected ROI over the first 12 months?
3. What is the expected ROI over the first 5 years?
4. What is the funding model for 1-5 years if pledgers have already bought the game / games?
5. Where are the Accounts from 2012 - 2015 as legally guaranteed by the CEO personally?
6. Why are there so many companies involved? 3-5 would be normal. What are the other companies doing? What is their purpose?
7. If all these subsidiary companies go bankrupt, is CIG protected or will it also go bankrupt?
8. Which company owns which Intellectual Property, Copyright or any other aspects of any of the games?
9. What exactly in terms of IP, Copyright and ownership of SQ42 & SC does CIG have directly?
10. How much money is needed to finish and release a published game considering your estimations have been wildly inaccurate so far in both finances and timeframe? Why should we trust this information when we couldn't before? What independent person has been brought in to assess this? What independent Audits have been done on the state of the game and roadmap to completion?
The only problem I have with this is that no investor in their right mind would go anywhere near this project. At best its turning into a crowd-funded PR nightmare with potentially all sales made already. At worst its possibly a scam. At best it will take how much to finish? And where is that money coming from? It may have happened already to some degree but not like people want it to be. I think if Calder had had secure safeguards in place there would have been some more evidence of this by now, surely he must be hearing the news and want a public statement to keep his investment safe, unless he doesnt have that power?
There has to be a long term expectation of profit and a return on investment (ROI) usually from a product or service before an investor will take over. I don't see any analysis concluding this unless they have been given a release date, a final balance of how much to completion and expectations of sales of that product or service. Nobody in their right mind is investing with the expectation of taking future backer funds as their ROI, they expect a product.
Wise investors of the category needed would usually specialise in fields they know or have experts in that field to advise. I cant see any of them thinking this is a good investment opportunity, unless they are sold on the continued public funding model. Other investors may take a more 'risky' approach and invest in people they trust and believe in if they think that person is investable and knows what they are doing. (TenCent investing in Fdev is a bit like this, they arent a games investor as such, they are a hedge fund but they believe in Frontier business model and its one of their most profitable investments - the problem is that this news alone may make other investors act less wisely in other games dev companies as they think they are all as good as this one. TenCent have been very wise but their success may lead others to be less wise and careful. But even then the Accountants and Lawyers should be advising against it)
So 10 Questions for the Chairman:
1. What is the expected release date of SQ42 & SC?
2. What is the expected ROI over the first 12 months?
3. What is the expected ROI over the first 5 years?
4. What is the funding model for 1-5 years if pledgers have already bought the game / games?
5. Where are the Accounts from 2012 - 2015 as legally guaranteed by the CEO personally?
6. Why are there so many companies involved? 3-5 would be normal. What are the other companies doing? What is their purpose?
7. If all these subsidiary companies go bankrupt, is CIG protected or will it also go bankrupt?
8. Which company owns which Intellectual Property, Copyright or any other aspects of any of the games?
9. What exactly in terms of IP, Copyright and ownership of SQ42 & SC does CIG have directly?
10. How much money is needed to finish and release a published game considering your estimations have been wildly inaccurate so far in both finances and timeframe? Why should we trust this information when we couldn't before? What independent person has been brought in to assess this? What independent Audits have been done on the state of the game and roadmap to completion?
Calder's certainly did, more than once. Find it hard to believe they would invest without deadlines and conditions, followed by absorbing more control and larger percentage of the company were those deadlines not met.
Undoubtedly those deadlines have been set against release of a product to sell, ie SQ42. They would certainly have no interest in the player transaction based and costly MMO. thing.
If this is going the way of an investor take over as it seems to be, expect company size to shrink over time as people slowly leave and are not replaced, contractors to step away or take over development entirely in some areas like Turbulent has and for a grossly cut down version of an SQ42 build to be hastily released.
The first signs of this will be EOY financials, particularly development expenditure. This should be steadily decreasing, while incoming from ship sales remains steady, for Calders to be able to get their investment back and bank on profit from sales of SQ42, regardless how many, or indeed few.
In a company I used to work for, there was a big push from management to cut down on expenditure like infrastructure cost, servers, power and bandwidth use et al, followed by staff not being replaced. All this prior to the company being sold off less than a year later.
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Im only speaking from perception and observation but my opinion is that Due Diligence was maybe not carried out due to personal relationship or friendship even and history with a charming person who had apparently (on paper at least) been responsible for some great profit making games. Add in the almost unimaginable amount raised so far and it could lead someone to think 'I dont know whats happening but obviously something is and this person seems to know what it is and has made vast sums from it so far, Ill just back them'. And millions to me is not the same as millions to a billionaire.
There are alternative possible reasons for investing, some of which are libellous, but for now I can see it as a somewhat naive friend getting taken advantage of, it just happens to be a very rich friend. And maybe some guarantees were promised or understood but not necessarily written down and legalised. I dont know, just speculating.
This, but....how much to finish it, what state is the game actually in to be released, how much work and time is needed to even get to this stage at all? What has actually been completed or near completion that can be published? If the game is just bits all over theres nothing to just push out the door in the first place. If starting from scratch or near scratch with 1 player solo game as its only focus, how long and how much to get it done at all? ($2m and 2 years?) Nobody knows at the moment which suggests its not that good, any good news would surely be shouted and screamed for all to hear?
Guard Frequency talk about Chris and co being AWOL, plus threads about the topic being nuked from Spectrum http://www.twitch.tv/guardfreq/v/731831986?sr=a&t=899s
Oooh, nice.
Why are you guys so obsessively angry at the guy, get a grip.
Because some people feel conned, some feel misled or let down, some have had their hopes dashed. And its all down to the promises of one person who has all but disappeared from view when all the serious questions need answering.
And a lot of people feel that the responses from CIG and the CEO have been totally inadequate or misleading or misrepresentative of the truth.
When all other avenues of reasonable behaviour seem to get no results then people become understandably angry. Some would say justifiably angry.
And when one person has led it all the way that person has some questions to answer.
And a lot of people feel that the responses from CIG and the CEO have been totally inadequate or misleading or misrepresentative of the truth.
When all other avenues of reasonable behaviour seem to get no results then people become understandably angry. Some would say justifiably angry.
And when one person has led it all the way that person has some questions to answer.
If any backer asks on Spectrum about the whereabouts of the guy they pledged all their money to, their post gets deleted.
Considering that new backers are still coming in despite the current flat pulse its only a matter of time before Chris Roberts fades to the bogeyman role who nobody really knows anymore except for the oldest among the faithful, telling stories of glory and grandeur and all the new guys will think CR is a NPC or a story character ^^ We already established that new backers dont care for all the broken promises, the old (bigger) version of the game and the rocky history of SC. So Chris Roberts simply not showing up while the rest of the operation grinds to a screeching halt could very well be the exit strategy we ve been wondering about ^^
I dont know. TheAgents prediction sounded plausible at the start of his (CR) disappearance but its become ridiculous now. The community is coming apart and I was expecting another soothing attempt like in 2016 you know...lots of empty words and fluff but a warm smile, the faithful who want to believe dont require more then the bare minimum to be happy. Investorrs having some kind of control doesnt explain the continous disappearance anymore as CR could very well show his face and make announcement, just the reins would be very short. DS was mentioning a divorce and while we dont need to know about that or have it confirmed (personal life) it would explain his absence depending on who the dominant factor was in that relationship.....people are trying to find some explanation at this point. I wouldnt call it "stalking" per se but exaggeration is a trademark of the faithful too.
Well the project wasnt going anywhere so any new form of leadership is at least another new chance. People were looking to Erin but the guy also proved he cant make it or maybe cannot control his older brother. Who else is there? Now investors are on board and if they have any kind of directional control they are the worst possible pick, worse then any kind of video game publisher (aka the devil) because these guys have zero experience with video games. What they get out of their investment in SC is anybodies guess. So clueless leadership? We d be back at step one ^^
"Haha, look at CR play his own game, its like he just seen it for the first time. He really doesn't care at all!"
"Wow, CR hasn't commented at all about the game he so clearly cares so much about, he must have been removed!"
"Yeah, I cannot think of any other possible explanation."
It doesnt work if you mix hater and fanatics comments together man
or make up stuff...Dont you understand by now that we at V12 of the same thing because some people bring up stuff that doesnt match reality? Every jump in page count starts with one of those things.
Nah according to recent input thats stalking and lowlife behavior, we should all be ashamed for ourselves for asking sensible questions and continue to think even tho our lifes are not affected by this ^^
Oh oh thats a great statement. People can ask for a game or the BDSSE all they want but I m not sure if this is the project for people who expect actual results and not just carrot on a stick parroting and handing out money ^^
As mentioned before.....investigative articles digging into the papertrail will be an absolute salt mine to read ^^
Who is?
Dont you see all the smiley faces? Some people opting to remain serious and talk about possible consequences or less-then-sunny scenarios isnt "obsessively angry"
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Chris and Sandi were there at the beginning and have raised $300 million dollars from backers. It's reasonable to ask where they have disappeared to.
It is interesting that still the wider perception of SC is that it is a joke. $1000s for a ship!? Thats a joke, who are these people?
Not many 'outsiders' see it as a scam....yet, they may do in time.
Then there are the gamers who just get drawn into the visuals and the promises, as you all did, but they may be getting that impression from their friends or family which makes it more 'secure'. There will always be new gamers and they can be trained early on to hate and ignore the FUDsters.
Occasionally certain 'inside' projects break the outside perception but by then its usually gone drastically wrong and is criminal or newsworthy headlines(eg Fyre Festival)
So if CIG manage the wider PR effectively, and they still are believe it or not, the wider games press are turning but still not denouncing it, Forbes did a positive piece on the Calder investment (no follow-up that I know of, theyre probably waiting for the game before that), no major media has launched an investigation to my knowledge, then theres a whole lot of customers to come for a few years yet.
I always look back at failed major projects where things just went catastrophically wrong and kept going wrong or at scams and hustles and wonder 'How did people not see it? OK maybe not early on but after ABC happened it should have been obvious? After XYZ didn't happen it was even more obvious, how did they not see it? How did it go on so long?'
'Theres none so deaf as them that won't listen and none so blind as them that won't see' - folk saying / folk proverb
Perhaps, for the right people to ask, but obviously you're not the right people, what would you be able to do with the information?