Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

...So Chris Roberts simply not showing up while the rest of the operation grinds to a screeching halt could very well be the exit strategy we ve been wondering about ...

Well, it could be a screeching pause as new people take stock and work out what can be done to recover the situation. I suspect that when Microsoft took over on Freelancer there was a pause, albeit unseen. Certainly that project took many more years to complete.

Tbh I've long believed that for this project to have a decent hope of success, that Chris would have to move aside on day to day and project management. I had hoped that Erin's arrival heralded such a change. Sadly it seems not.

Perhaps his absence indicates such.
 
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Enough bad publicity can change the course of one's spending, never bought anything on line and looked at the satisfaction scores?

Sure, its why I'll never buy another EA game. Because they are objectively a bad company.

If CIG are earning that much bad publicity, to the point where its impacting their sales (sorry, not sales, pledges) then maybe the issue is with the project.

Those who love to dismiss the criticism tend to try and claim that its just a tiny number of people making excessive noise and running multiple sock puppet accounts. And yet, even if that was true, if the project is good, they shouldn't even have a noticable impact on sales (sorry, pledges). The quality of the project should speak for itself.
 
It seems to be doing a great job derailing itself without any help. If companies could go under just by people discussing them.. sheesh.
It's derailling itself... I hardly think so with the claims from posts a little earlier showing $300m investment, no, I don't think so, but you'll keep pecking away with your little grudg, hoping!
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Yes, a mildly interesting business case study that many folks here and on other forums are trying their best to derail, presumably just so they could say "I told you so" and have a brief moment of satisfaction in their otherwise pointless and miserable lives.

To be fair I do not think there is much that posting in some forums can do to "derail" anything. Authorities or the press investigating the matter, investors exercising their eventual control options or CR/CIG fracking up their own record crowdfunded project are probably about the only/main ways for this to be "derailed".

As for the eventual "I told you so" moments, I guess that such is the way of debates and argued contrary opinions. Bragging rights for some may be fun, but they are ultimately harmless in this whole ordeal 🤷‍♂️ .
 
Why are you guys so obsessively angry at the guy, get a grip.

I'm not angry at him, I am just aware of his track record and so unwilling to back him on any endeavour. Ymmv and I would be delighted if SC and/or SQ42 get released and are decent games.

Overall it is frustrating I would suggest that a marvelous opportunity seems to have been so badly squandered, and that people who invested may get very little in return. Again, ymmv.
 
I'm not actively exposing the scam. I'm watching a scam fall apart. It's enjoyable watching scammers get exposed. I've spent nothing on Star Citizen.

Star Citizen is a scam. I do have a wish for scams to be exposed. Everyone should be pleased that Bitconnect was exposed, and so can no longer steal victims' life savings.

You just categorically stated that it was a scam, you can't distance yourself from the burning while shouting "burn the witch"... and later saying "nothing to do with me"
 
Lack of Due Diligence argument -

Calder investment was for PR to publicise the game because if noone has heard of it how can it sell. this means Calder was given reassurances that the project was near completion...9 months ago. DD would (should) have shown this game was nowhere near 9 months from release as stated publicly.

Showed a video / mocap etc - how did they know what they were looking at? If CR has a history of showing videos and lying about them being completed gameplay to both Publishers and Gamers, then how hard is it to lie and convince someone who doesn't really know, what they are looking at? DD would show that as you already know, there is apparently not much to show...or surely youd have seen it. CR knows they cant get a video past the gamers anymore but they can still get one past an investor.

Published Accounts in UK - these show irregularities or mistakes. DD would normally ask that these are corrected before investing as you dont want to be held accountable or financially responsible for something that happened before your time. No corrected accounts have been submitted.

No penalties or focus on release has become apparent even during the last month of the Quarter of the projected release of SQ42. This could point to no such clauses existing. If my money was for future PR Id want to make sure the current PR was not damaging the company or my investment, costing me more money or meaning my money was spent to undo the damage. DD should have put this in place. If the game was later than planned I would want control or input into the PR / Statement to protect my investment.

2nd Investment from Calder, call it a top-up - Why was this needed. What DD showed that this was needed? What possible explanation would satisfy this being needed when the game hasnt released, the 1st investment on PR hasnt been spent and there is still no actual release date? This screams lack of DD or worse. It also could be perceived as yet another example of sunk-cost fallacy.

And again, it wouldnt be unheard of for someone to ignore the logical conclusion or professional advice in favour of friendship or potential ROI, you may even class it as High Risk in your portfolio and term it acceptable risk for your expected or believed ROI despite what your advisors say. You cant just say because someone has money they are infallible to the same mistakes as everyone else.

Against:

Perception of normal business practices mean DD was fully carried out and standard safeguards are in place. (I thought the same about CryTech but hey ho)

Maybe thats why the investment is for PR, maybe its ringfenced until certain conditions are met as protection because DD showed that investing in the actual product or company was a no-no. So the money cannot be spent until release and Calder can get it back at any point before that. No need to have penalties or push to market in this case, the exit plan is to get the money back as it shouldn't have been spent. Maybe its in one of the other companies accounts as protected investment.

All just opinion but based on the irregularities in the expected process so far and suggesting why they exist. There are other interpretations, some are libellous, but I cant see one where proper and thorough DD shows that this is investable.
 
Calder's certainly did, more than once. Find it hard to believe they would invest without deadlines and conditions, followed by absorbing more control and larger percentage of the company were those deadlines not met.
It's probably worth going back and remembering what they did with the Coutts loan, where they had to pledge pretty much the entire company in order to get a payday loan to survive until tax rebate time (this is also the only known instance of actual pledging that has happened in SC since 2012).

Everyone after that has provided a lot more cash, and gotten a lot more direct control in exchange, but it wouldn't exactly be shocking if there were similar provisions if CI¬G failed to deliver on time.

And, as far as I know, most if not all ships are available for in game purchase with in game earnable money.
Lolno. Most of them don't even exist.

It's clearly stated that it's alpha and beta.
Not really, no. They've been very adamant on making sure that the exact state of the game is not clear. What will happen when or if they ever transition to some kind of beta has never been clarified. It's been one way then the other in rapid-fire mutually contradictory ways, and they've gone from “it's released already” to “it's pre-alpha” from one day to the next so good luck actually getting an answer on what the status of your purchase is. Consequently, the only way to actually be sure is to purchase things. But even that isn't really assured, again given that they can't put their foot down as to what the status of the game is.

Funny that you don't see it that way when explaining the sadness of it all..
Sadness? We're at thread twelve for the exact opposite reason: because it's hilarious! :ROFLMAO:
 
It's derailling itself... I hardly think so with the claims from posts a little earlier showing $300m investment, no, I don't think so, but you'll keep pecking away with your little grudg, hoping!

It's great that you're happy, and you're not alone as many profess this. However, many profess to concerns and doubts. It's just life. So I'm confused that you've come to a third party forum to make snide and snarky comments about people who post here.

Perhaps if CIG released the long awaited and hugely overdue SQ42 video they might calm doubters and supporters alike. When have they said that they'll be doing that?
 
It's great that you're happy, and you're not alone as many profess this. However, many profess to concerns and doubts. It's just life. So I'm confused that you've come to a third party forum to make snide and snarky comments about people who post here.

Perhaps if CIG released the long awaited and hugely overdue SQ42 video they might calm doubters and supporters alike. When have they said that they'll be doing that?

So because I'm not in the Boo hoo brigade I can't comment... that makes me sad
 
Why are you guys so obsessively angry at the guy, get a grip.
I can only see one slightly angry guy in here, the rest of us kinda discuss Star Citizen...if and when it produces anything new/laughable/relevant. The main reason for bringing CR into the discussion is his mysterious disappearance/radio silence. Considering the official forum is arbitrarily deleting discussion threads on the matter...we talk about it here :)
 
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Showed a video / mocap etc - how did they know what they were looking at? If CR has a history of showing videos and lying about them being completed gameplay to both Publishers and Gamers, then how hard is it to lie and convince someone who doesn't really know, what they are looking at? DD would show that as you already know, there is apparently not much to show...or surely youd have seen it. CR knows they cant get a video past the gamers anymore but they can still get one past an investor.


TheAgent's shadowy whisperings in this area are fun reading...

[Re: Roadmap] We have to continue to hold out until we find an honest way to placate our investors. The oversight leveled against us was fine in the beginning, but after the first [SQ42 gameplay "monthlies"] deadline was missed, they started paying more and more attention. If we put a roadmap out for the backers, the investors are going to use that to penalize the project: not only monetarily, but with cuts to our workforce and with additional oversight. Those will only slow down our already somewhat stalled progress this year. Management understands this and is doing a sword-dance around the issues...for the record, we are not holding things back for [backers]. It is much more complicated than that.
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The last time we demoed the game, it was heavily scripted. [QA] had been playing it for hours and hours, getting the right route [and content]. The investors wanted it live, so nothing pre-recorded like we are used to sending. Everyone got really quiet when [they] asked if they could play it themselves and not follow the script at all. Almost immediately after the controller was handed over, they crashed. [Someone in the meeting] nervously laughed. I think that was the day we lost a lot of confidence with our investors and they started really looking at our progress.
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I can say this about Cloud Imperium and Foundry 42: they are trying very, very hard to keep people on during the pandemic. I can't say the same about the investors. Turbulent is taking over more and more development responsibilities, because they can plan and hit target dates and the investors like that. [Turbulent] mentioned that they could do the game for a tenth of what [Roberts] promised. I'm scared they might wrestle away more and more control and let our studio close.


All just some fun gossip, which happens to pleasingly fill in some gaps.

Who knows ¯\(ツ)/¯ . As you say, history tells us some things:

And we all know of Chris’s love for sizzle reels and duct-taped demos. Not just for fans, but for publishers too...

If you're a publisher you can visit me and I can show you the milestone, but you have no idea if behind the scenes I've got it jury-rigged or whatever.


Time may tell on the rest ;)
 
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