General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?

[Robin of Spiritwood]

we're destroying economy and prime years of ppls lives to protect a small percentage of old ppl.
It's madness and has nothing to do with responsibility.
Weaponized virtue signaling.

I believe this is your honest assessment. Just as you choose to follow Wakefield on vaccines.

This is what happens if it is adopted:

Sturgis Motorcycle Rally May Have Caused 250,000 Coronavirus Cases, Economists Say

The IZA study concludes that the rally generated public health costs of approximately $12.2 billion.

www.forbes.com

No. Everybody else isn't wrong. They have command of simple reality. For instance, Frontier itself is observing protocols to protect the employees that make this board possible.

This is weaponized ignorance, causing suffering and death.
It is utterly beyond your power to correct. You had 7 MONTHS to figure it out. You failed. Game over. You can't.

There is no upside in persisting with communication here; my country has moved past that to simple punishment to correct the behaviour. I concede that they have a point. We have to defend ourselves from the deadly threat of unremitting adaptive failure.

At some point, every society has to put this nonsense on ignore too.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

How is one wearing a mask in danger of someone who isn't. I mean, what's the purpose of wearing a mask if it isn't going to protect from someone not.

2 masks are better than 1. Wearing a mask protects others more than it protects yourself.... Apparently... I can't say I know that from personal experience.

 

[Stigbob]

I believe this is your honest assessment. Just as you choose to follow Wakefield on vaccines.

This is what happens if it is adopted:

Sturgis Motorcycle Rally May Have Caused 250,000 Coronavirus Cases, Economists Say

The IZA study concludes that the rally generated public health costs of approximately $12.2 billion.

www.forbes.com

No. Everybody else isn't wrong. They have command of simple reality. For instance, Frontier itself is observing protocols to protect the employees that make this board possible.

This is weaponized ignorance, causing suffering and death.
It is utterly beyond your power to correct. You had 7 MONTHS to figure it out. You failed. Game over. You can't.

There is no upside in persisting with communication here; my country has moved past that to simple punishment to correct the behaviour. I concede that they have a point. We have to defend ourselves from the deadly threat of unremitting adaptive failure.

At some point, every society has to put this nonsense on ignore too.

That's the thing, pandering to ignorance is a luxury that comes with freedom of speech. When things go properly sideways you cant waste time resources and put everyone at risk because of a minorities pseudo-scientific beliefs.

Thanks to the internet and media focussing on engagement/money rather than accuracy our access to blatant fibs has spread far faster than our ability to sift truth from lies.

I think in the future education should include fact checking and critical thinking as one of the basic subjects alongside maths, reading and writing. Currently its something that's not really taught until the higher education stage, which not everybody does or can reach. That's a long term solution though.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

A profound YES aka YEP aka YUP; When it's my time to go, it's my time to go.

I take it you don't have kids / dependants? If you do I think you are either being dishonest and don't mean what you say OR you are a pretty awful parent!
Cards on the table realistically the vaccine won't be forced on people (in the UK). Also call me naive but I also don't think it will be pushed out before being safety tested (in the UK)

The truth is whilst I would not allow people capable of taking the vaccine in public places who willfully refuse to take a vaccine realistically it won't happen.
People will be free to carry on spreading if they want I just hope enough people choose to do (what I consider to be ) the right thing either through empathy or for their own self preservation

The 2nd wave is already starting in the UK

 

[metatheurgist]

I think in the future education should include fact checking and critical thinking as one of the basic subjects alongside maths, reading and writing. Currently its something that's not really taught until the higher education stage, which not everybody does or can reach. That's a long term solution though.

But, but, none of those things make you employable and help the economy.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

A profound YES aka YEP aka YUP; When it's my time to go, it's my time to go.

Hope you're not a bus driver or commercial pilot.

This is the problem with that attitude. If it was just you, then fair enough, but by taking a risk (and accepting it) you may well put others at risk who were trying to avoid it.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The 2nd wave is already starting in the UK

Traffic between the UK and France ?

Because in France for three weeks we have between 3000 and 9000 cases per day.

Yesterday 6,500 new cases yet.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I hope that with the halt of the tests of the Oxford and AstraZeneca laboratories for suspicion of serious side effects, all the laboratories in the world will increase their vigilance and their seriousness.

The day I agree to be vaccinated, it must be 100% safe.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

Sir Terry Prachetts' Patrician of Ankh Morpork had a very simple attitude to personal freedom. It went something like "f you want the freedom to act as you want you also have the freedom to receive the consequences". This does not mean you have the freedom to choose to receive the consequences; rather, if you decide to follow a path of choice you have to follow it to its' end. If I choose not to wear a face covering when required I also then choose to receive an escalating fine (in the UK) for each incident.

If I have COVID 19 and am asymptomatic I would not know this without being tested. If I then pass this on to a vulnerable person (because I chose not taking the required precautions) who then dies BECAUSE OF MY ARROGANCE I would deserve having the full fury of the law descend on me (and I would have to accept that my freedom of choice in not wearing the precautions means I have to accept the consequences. Cause and effect).

I will be getting the free influenza vaccine (due to my age), and I will, when it is scientifically shown to be safe and viable, ask for the COVID 19 vaccine.

The current vaccine being developed by an Oxford laboratory is currently on hold as a volunteer has fallen ill. At this time it has not been stated as to whether this is because of the vaccine OR a totally unrelated illness.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Traffic between the UK and France ?

Because in France for three weeks we have between 3000 and 9000 cases per day.

Yesterday 6,500 new cases yet.

I think it is a culmination of many things, some which were avoidable but some which are not.

The government are trying to spin a lot of plates at the moment and I don't envy their job

 

[Patrick_68000]

I think it is a culmination of many things, some which were avoidable but some which are not.

The government are trying to spin a lot of plates at the moment and I don't envy their job

I fear this winter with the cocktail Covid , seasonal flu, cold, angina, bronchitis, gastroenteritis.

 

[Stigbob]

I take it you don't have kids / dependants? If you do I think you are either being dishonest and don't mean what you say OR you are a pretty awful parent!
Cards on the table realistically the vaccine won't be forced on people (in the UK). Also call me naive but I also don't think it will be pushed out before being safety tested (in the UK)

The truth is whilst I would not allow people capable of taking the vaccine in public places who willfully refuse to take a vaccine realistically it won't happen.
People will be free to carry on spreading if they want I just hope enough people choose to do (what I consider to be ) the right thing either through empathy or for their own self preservation

The 2nd wave is already starting in the UK

I think the whole "GAH untested vaccine" thing is just another facet of the anti-vax propaganda. Nobody serious is suggesting anything other than rigorous testing and trails before making anything more widely available.

A compulsory vaccine is similar in that it generates panic and chatter in exactly the same sort of people but its genuinely being floated as an idea possibly because low vaccine uptake can render them useless.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I hope that with the halt of the tests of the Oxford and AstraZeneca laboratories for suspicion of serious side effects, all the laboratories in the world will increase their vigilance and their seriousness.

The day I agree to be vaccinated, it must be 100% safe.

The thing is I think the very fact that this really exciting vaccine has been put on hold because ONE person is ill and even that may not be linked to the vaccine is proof that safety for those taking the vaccine IS paramount.

If it really was a case of vaccine out at all costs this could have been swept under the rug

From memory isn't it over 30,000 people who are in the trial? If you take a random sample of 30,000 people esp from high covid areas WITHOUT the vaccine I dare say that statistically more than one of them will become seriously ill or worse

 

[Deleted member 257907]

I believe this is your honest assessment. Just as you choose to follow Wakefield on vaccines.

This is what happens if it is adopted:

Sturgis Motorcycle Rally May Have Caused 250,000 Coronavirus Cases, Economists Say

The IZA study concludes that the rally generated public health costs of approximately $12.2 billion.

www.forbes.com

No. Everybody else isn't wrong. They have command of simple reality. For instance, Frontier itself is observing protocols to protect the employees that make this board possible.

This is weaponized ignorance, causing suffering and death.
It is utterly beyond your power to correct. You had 7 MONTHS to figure it out. You failed. Game over. You can't.

There is no upside in persisting with communication here; my country has moved past that to simple punishment to correct the behaviour. I concede that they have a point. We have to defend ourselves from the deadly threat of unremitting adaptive failure.

At some point, every society has to put this nonsense on ignore too.

Study of cell phone data by unnamed group of economists may have found something.
And now im supposed to changed my mind?

 

[Stigbob]

Study of cell phone data by unnamed group of economists may have found something.
And now im supposed to changed my mind?

They are not unnamed if you read the article you can very easily find all the hyperlinks direct to the sources and the data.

Here's a few :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1302480031638147074

Source: https://twitter.com/SDSUCHEPS/status/1302480031638147074

The Contagion Externality of a Superspreading Event: The Sturgis Motorcycle Rally and COVID-19

Large in-person gatherings without social distancing and with individuals who have traveled outside the local area are classified as the "highest risk...

www.iza.org

Forbes is consistently pretty reliable whereas Andrew Wakefield and the like are right up there in the tinfoil hat zone. A good indication forbes are reliable is the fact they provide links to their sources and data which the conspiracy theorists can never do.

So you could take your reaction to it as an indication you jumped to an incorrect conclusion having not really read or understood the article as your trying to portray the sources as unnamed is obviously completely wrong.

 

[PRORABBIT67]

Uk covid infection levels begin to rise.
17 to 29 year olds not taking the virus seriously identified as main cause.
Media have given them a headline grabbing name "The lost generation"
Government imposes stricter measures.
Cue mas gatherings of said "The lost generation" in protest holding badly written placards saying "The lost generation"
Media goes into a feeding frenzy and slaps on back all round.
Uk covid infection levels rise even more.

I fear this is the way it is going to be until "The lost generation" infect and or kill enough of their close family and friends to change their minds.
We also have a lot of aircraft sitting around doing nothing at the moment and I would suggest it would be a good idea to make use of them by
flying educational trips for "The lost generation" and the press to Yemen to show them what a real lost generation looks like.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Uk covid infection levels begin to rise.
17 to 29 year olds not taking the virus seriously identified as main cause.
Media have given them a headline grabbing name "The lost generation"
Government imposes stricter measures.
Cue mas gatherings of said "The lost generation" in protest holding badly written placards saying "The lost generation"
Media goes into a feeding frenzy and slaps on back all round.
Uk covid infection levels rise even more.

I fear this is the way it is going to be until "The lost generation" infect and or kill enough of their close family and friends to change their minds.
We also have a lot of aircraft sitting around doing nothing at the moment and I would suggest it would be a good idea to make use of them by
flying educational trips for "The lost generation" and the press to Yemen to show them what a real lost generation looks like.

The generation that grew up watchng reality TV like TOWIE, Geordie Shore and Love Island had no chance to be stable humans.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

However, if a person has a genuine and legally recognised reason as to why they CANNOT wear a face covering they must not be victimised for this. If they have a legally acceptable document explaining WHY they are exempt the person they are presenting it to needs to be aware of THEIR own legal responsibilities. If, by forcing somebody with a severe respiratory condition to wear a face covering, they cause that person to have an adverse medical reaction, the person enforcing the 'rule' may well be liable to legal actions. Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law, especially when the 'ignorant' person is trying to enforce the law.

Easyjet pilot 'forces' passenger with chronic asthma to wear mask on plane

If I were the person (in this case) being forced to wear a mask, and I had a medical reaction because of this, I would specifically sue the PILOT, and not the airline.

 

[Stigbob]

However, if a person has a genuine and legally recognised reason as to why they CANNOT wear a face covering they must not be victimised for this. If they have a legally acceptable document explaining WHY they are exempt the person they are presenting it to needs to be aware of THEIR own legal responsibilities. If, by forcing somebody with a severe respiratory condition to wear a face covering, they cause that person to have an adverse medical reaction, the person enforcing the 'rule' may well be liable to legal actions. Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law, especially when the 'ignorant' person is trying to enforce the law.

Easyjet pilot 'forces' passenger with chronic asthma to wear mask on plane

If I were the person (in this case) being forced to wear a mask, and I had a medical reaction because of this, I would specifically sue the PILOT, and not the airline.

If I had asthma I'd go with the official advice of people who know what they are talking about wear a mask and avoid the dangerous conspiracy theories.

What should I do if I have COVID-19?

Find out how to look after yourself if you have COVID-19, including when to get help and which treatments you may be able to get.

www.asthma.org.uk

"Most people with asthma, even if it’s severe, can manage to wear a face mask for a short period of time, and shouldn't worry if they need to wear one. Wearing a mask does not reduce a person’s oxygen supply or cause a build-up of carbon dioxide. You may have read stories that say that it can, but this isn’t true."

 

[Hell Razor5543]

If I had asthma I'd go with the official advice of people who know what they are talking about wear a mask and avoid the dangerous conspiracy theories.

What should I do if I have COVID-19?

Find out how to look after yourself if you have COVID-19, including when to get help and which treatments you may be able to get.

www.asthma.org.uk

"Most people with asthma, even if it’s severe, can manage to wear a face mask for a short period of time, and shouldn't worry if they need to wear one. Wearing a mask does not reduce a person’s oxygen supply or cause a build-up of carbon dioxide. You may have read stories that say that it can, but this isn’t true."

Remember though that airliners don't pressurise the passenger cabins at sea level but typically around 10,000 feet. Because of this the cabin air is thinner and may give people with asthma (and other respiratory conditions) some breathing difficulties. Also, ever since it was no longer legal to smoke in airliners, the airlines don't filter the air in an aeroplane as much as they used to (the filters cost money, and the filtration equipment adds weight), which means (believe it or not) the air in the cabin is not as clean as before the smoking ban came into force.