Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Tippis]

Says the guy who attacks everyone that dares to have “fun” in the PU.

You're imagining things again. Sorry that reality isn't on your side on this point either, and once again, remember that attacking the people telling you this only further highlights how you have nothing to bring to the conversation.

You do you, have a nice day.

You know what would really make it nice? If you just once, just a little, at least tried to back up your claims and assertions with anything more tangible than wishful thinking, double standards, and a sizeable grab-bag of fallacies. “Research” and “argument” are not bad words.

 

[ArAsH]

Yes, but that's not really an answer, is it?

Ok, then do

 

[Viajero]

Way too much conspiracies here.

It goes both ways though. When you say quite categorically that they have "enough cash flow", the statement is probably as innacurate and as misleading as any equally baseless "conspiracy theory" you may want to pick here or elsewhere.

As for "they are still going".... Yeah they are indeed still going, the thing is that imo with the incomplete and biased info available I do not think they are in shape to deliver all that has been promised at the level of quality promised, far from it. Pretty sure time and money are not the issues here.

 

[Tippis]

The more employees, the quicker they will burn through the money.

Does this include outside contractors?

Within the span of, what, one month? Two? They've mentioned the figure 500+, 450, the famous “90 programmers” claim, and now 630 — in that order — so there's no telling. We know that Turbulent has been actively recruiting to aid in the development of SC (not just the sales community engagement), so increased use of contractors is very likely happening.

 

[Dooguk]

Within the span of, what, one month? Two? They've mentioned the figure 500+, 450, the famous “90 programmers” claim, and now 630 — in that order — so there's no telling. We know that Turbulent has been actively recruiting to aid in the development of SC (not just the sales community engagement), so increased use of contractors is very likely happening.

Do firms normally call them employees if they aren't directly employed by them? I can't remember it happening in my old place of work, and we used lots of contractors.

 

[ArAsH]

It goes both ways though. When you say quite categorically that they have "enough cash flow", the statement is probably as innacurate and as misleading as any equally baseless "conspiracy theory" you may want to pick here or elsewhere.

As for "they are still going".... Yeah they are indeed still going, the thing is that imo with the incomplete and biased info available I do not think they are in shape to deliver all that has been promised at the level of quality promised, far from it. Pretty sure time and money are not the issues here.

Thing is, cig has been going bankrupt for how long now? 5 years, 6 years? And they are still going strong. Common sense tells me, if it was that bad, they where letting people go, not taking in more. But yea, what do I know? The top economists here will probably school me.

 

[Mole HD]

Are we fighting again?

Yay! \o/

 

[MTBFritz]

That’s the thing, so much speculation, seriously, personally, I don’t care. They are still going, I like what I see, let them do their thing. That’s how I think about it. Way too much conspiracies here.

Nobody is preventing CIG from "doing their thing", regardless how much or what we write here CIG is going to "do their thing" as they did for the last 8 years. Nobody here has any power over what CIG does so we are not allowed to give our thoughts on what we see too now? Thought police alert ^^

No seriously. If you enjoy the discussion here so much as you claim its a little confusing how hard you try to avoid comitting to anything you write, Instead you simply bash the whole thread and refuse to engage in anything people direct at you.

I too enjoy the discussion here thats why I put myself out and put some effort into my posts. You should just stop trying to paint everybody who has a laugh at CIGs expense as a hater or bullcrapper especially as all of it has zero impact on whats happening in SCs development, I mean where exactly are you in all this? Just watching and having a laugh? So do all of us I dont get why you get offended or irritated by others holding a different view to yours.

630 employees now

Yeah if thats his source hes outdated 8 years now but I m sure its as credible or current as the stuff coming up now ^^

Damn, top lawyer, developer, economist and psychiatrist. You must make mad money

You got anything else then cheap snide remarks and laughter? Cuz thats all I see coming from you. Your judgement to peoples posts in this place lack the proper "bite" when its coming from a void ^^ But please continue, its always entertaining to see somebody whos deifinitely not a white knight participate and share his knowledge....or doesnt. Almost as if Chris typing himself, you just write less then he does.

That’s actually pretty impressive

If you mean the pure number I dont see it that way really. All you do is to employ people and as you do it with other peoples money its not a hard thing to do in the first place. If we talk about the development progress or amount of content coming out of CIG compared to their employee tally....now THAT is pretty impressive...as a kind of negative record I mean but you are right, its pretty impressive.

Do firms normally call them employees if they aren't directly employed by them? I can't remember it happening in my old place of work, and we used lots of contractors.

They would be listed accordingly on internal lists and spreadsheets but you usually dumb it down or combine such split factors when you release it to the greater public. I dont think they "have to" seperate them in public announcement like Chris statements from a legal point of view but of course, in tax statements or the internal structure of the company contractors would be singled out and listed seperately. I mean you are not going to tell your flock of sheep all of that in detail now would you? Just keep the poor creatures occupied and busy so they dont notice whats happening

 

[Tippis]

Thing is, cig has been going bankrupt for how long now? 5 years, 6 years?

Not quite, but they've operated at a significant loss for at least 4.

And they are still going strong. Common sense tells me, if it was that bad, they where letting people go, not taking in more.

They'd be pretty desperate, to say nothing of pressured by the people coughing up cash to keep the lights on in exchange for some kind of useful ROI, to try to squeeze something out that could finally close the books on some of their massive liabilities and let them actually make some semblance of a profit. There's also the hilarious thing where some people think that “more numbers = more better” and open their wallets more, and they can't afford to lose the confidence of those people by suddenly breaking the narrative of constant growth — actual reductions would be disastrous.

Common sense and a very tiny amount of historical research will tell you that bubbles happen because people keep artificially inflating numbers far beyond what can actually be supported and that “being that bad” is a detail that is often happily skipped in the frenzy to keep that inflation going…

 

[ArAsH]

Are we fighting again?

Yay! \o/

 

[Viajero]

Thing is, cig has been going bankrupt for how long now? 5 years, 6 years? And they are still going strong. Common sense tells me, if it was that bad, they where letting people go, not taking in more. But yea, what do I know? The top economists here will probably school me.

I personally do not think they are bankrupt. 90 days? I just think they are not in shape (technically or financially) to deliver the promised BDSSE, quite far from it. What is a fact though is that their financial information is lacking quite a lot of basic and fundamental elements. Look at it from the other side: If CIG´s financial state was solid, why not release it fully and in a standard reporting structure including full 3rd party published auditing.

 

[MTBFritz]

Just admit it the thread was a lil boring eh so you tried to spice it up no?

 

[VR Golgot]

I meant, have a drink, a shot you know. This is not a contest

Then why do you keep trying to win the thread with your weak-sauce one-liners?

Too many shots?

(Because seriously friend, with all kudos given to you for trying to smack talk in another language, you generally tend to either self-own horribly, or just repeat banal nothings. Alongside your general annoyance at detailed discussion it all just makes you come across as a little bit simple. I’m assuming that isn’t the effect you’re going for? )

 

[StuartGT]

Now that Microsoft own Starfield's development, I wonder if they're cheekily rebrand it Freelancer?

 

[Deleted member 257907]

watching star citizen development is just like watching rich guys crashing their mustang. They even have mustang in the game XD

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cw1bHMGOxg

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Whales gonna be whales, let them fund the game I enjoy, what we know now is they are putting in more money than before. I don’t complain.

But the question remains, how many more years will they keep being whales for, and can CIG keep bringing new whales in as some of the older whales get jaded.

The company needs somewhere in the region of 50 million a year to keep afloat at their current size. That's quite a few whales needed combined with lower level backers keeping spending.

And SC is still years away from something that can be released and not get panned by critics. Once they release, the ITS ALPHA shield goes, and CR did promise to stop selling ships post release (something they could walk back on, but then the P2W nature would be fully exposed).

CR seems to think whales will keep funding for as long as it takes, and you seem to think the same. But what happens if they don't?

 

[MTBFritz]

But you really have to keep eyeing this thread all the time otherwise you take a day or two off and you come back to 50 new pages and missed all the hilarity unfolding in real time. Its like watching a soccer match....being witness to it in the now beats a delayed transmission every time ^^ The match isnt even the main event in this case, its the BBQ on the parking lot and fan interaction mostly that makes such events memorable

 

[Xink]

The game is already out. You're playing it. You're funding it. If you enjoy it, great, keep funding. It's the only way you'll get to keep playing.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

To be fair I do not think "better guesstimate" than whatever you prefer to use to compare can quite cut it either. CIG´s own released info has shown lacking quite often. Hugely so in many cases. Here you have one of the latest examples suggesting CIG´s own published info is probably as unreliable as any other rumorology you can find here or elsewhere. Similarly there is so far no evidence either that CIG´s statements about their finances are anywhere as accurate as we would like them to be.

For example and as a start the financial info lacks fundamental standard reporting elements such as a balance sheet for the parent allowing you to see things like debt outstanding and other liabilities etc, or an actual auditor sign off following recognised procedures and without which it is hard to ascertain the actual validity and source of some of the figures, among other things.

I do not doubt they indeed have cash inflows. But with the incomplete (and more than likely very biased) info available so far is really not possible to determine there is "enough cash flow" to avoid any kind of loss of control (partial or full) in the project at some point as you suggest I am afraid.

Well, we have to take their UK financials at face value, otherwise CIG are in a lot of trouble if they have been telling pork pies.

However, they can move money around via their dozen of so shell companies to make their financials look rosier than they actually are. Not saying they are, but its possible.

And of course, the funding tracker itself is suspect and we have no proof that its connected with actual cash flow, except that if they were not pulling in something like they are saying, then they would probably be bankrupt.

CIG's own (self-reported) financials indicate that before Calder came onboard, they were running low on cash. So, from this perspective, it seems that what they report is at least broadly accurate.

 

[Firkrayt]

They even have mustang in the game

Can I crash it?