Nerf the FDL for pvp’s sake

[gorankar]

No buffs for other ships unless we want to discuss removing the Pythons maneuverability nerf. It's not really a buff if you are just removing a nerf.
I think the FDL is fine. At worst, I think remove one utility slot, or reduce it base heat to Mamba levels, or at least split the difference between them.

 

[FlyingBrickyard]

Truth be told, it wasn’t the heat that turned me off the mamba. It was the god.dam.handling. Even with g5 dirties that thing handles like a turd someone hucked at a ceiling fan...

That's hardly fair.

The Mamba turns like it's on rails.

Well, these rails, anyway...

 

[Mercury7]

I say remove all the ships, and have one massively OP ship that can do it all, simultaneously.

Perfect balance.

Being serious, I really hate this nerf/buff nonsense. I know this is a game/sim, but everyone can at least be equal with a bit of effort. This isn't pay-to-win!

 

[Borko]

Tried it again last week and I just can't seem to get on with that ship. It's a shame because I really want to like it...

Totally this. The mamba is probably the prettiest ship in the game. I really really tried to make it work but it ended up a hangar queen while the chieftain was busy de-lifeing things.

Pvp meta aside, i can fly the FDL better but don’t like it. No really good reason aside from it being practically required for pvp.

 

[CMDR Serra]

Well, that's 81m I'm never getting back going to recoup in about 45-60 minutes of very fun mining.

Might scare the bejeezus out of some traditional miners when I drop into their instance in an FDL too, so there's that...

 

[FlyingBrickyard]

Totally this. The mamba is probably the prettiest ship in the game. I really really tried to make it work but it ended up a hangar queen while the chieftain was busy de-lifeing things.

Pvp meta aside, i can fly the FDL better but don’t like it. No really good reason aside from it being practically required for pvp.

It's totally not meta (which is why I wouldn't use it for PvP), but I've been having a lot of fun with my 6 gun (MC) Chief.

 

[Borko]

It's totally not meta (which is why I wouldn't use it for PvP), but I've been having a lot of fun with my 6 gun (MC) Chief.

Beams on top. Frags on bottom. Make other things go kablooie.

 

[Maymo]

Totally this. The mamba is probably the prettiest ship in the game. I really really tried to make it work but it ended up a hangar queen while the chieftain was busy de-lifeing things.

Pvp meta aside, i can fly the FDL better but don’t like it. No really good reason aside from it being practically required for pvp.

It's weird though...
On the surface it's a really good package. 1 huge + 2 large/good utilities...

But it's damn big! It seems to pick up every bit of enemy fire and it has weaker shields than the FDL.
To break shields quickly you need to use thermal weapons which then overheat the Mamba...
To use thermal weapons you need to be close to prevent damage falloff, the Mamba sucks up close...
To take advantage of its speed you need to boost and its capacitor runs out quick which means less for wep and so less damage...

...it just seemed to be this cascade of disadvantages when I was using it.

I try quite hard to find the potential in every ship in the game. If I see the potential I'll then explore it with different builds. But with the Mamba I just couldn't find its potential at all.

Or it just isn't the ship for me (I like to brawl), or it's just simply way beyond my skill level to use...

Disclaimer: yes, I know what long range/thermal vent does. But is the ship that bad that it has to use this load out just to succeed?

 

[tolm]

Truth be told, it wasn’t the heat that turned me off the mamba. It was the god.dam.handling. Even with g5 dirties that thing handles like a turd someone hucked at a ceiling fan...

Yeh, the Mamba was a huge disappointment ... I really wish they’d not just pegged it to the FDL mast and made it a bit different. For me, it’s a bigger ship so should reflect that ...

• Should have C7 thrusters to make it faster AND more manoeuvrable (but still not as agile as an FDL)
• Should have an additional C6 Internal. Would allow running a C6 BiWeave for better shield regen as a trade off for the loss of agility
• Buff the armour - it’s a big ol’ ship and should be tougher than a paper bag
• Lose two Utility points to counteract the extra internal and potential “shield creep”

That would make it a fast, agile, biweave monster with weaker but fast charging shields vs the FDL rather than a poor clone with “a bit more speed and a bit less agility”. A “sawn off Corvette”, if you will ...

 

[Screemonster]

Max 4 skill boosters per ship will fix so many problems

Or just changing the way shield boosters stack. One of the biggest things about the FDL that makes it so much better than other ships in its class is the insane health pool you can get on the thing on top of being so fast and agile. Fixing booster stacking in general would do a lot to deal with powercreep on any ship, not to mention making it actually worthwhile to spend a utility on literally anything else - and making the 2-utility small ships not feel so bad.

Honestly I wish boosters were just a case of "if you have multiple boosters, you get whichever one provides the biggest benefit in a particular category, they do not stack".

 

[Danieros]

Or just changing the way shield boosters stack. One of the biggest things about the FDL that makes it so much better than other ships in its class is the insane health pool you can get on the thing on top of being so fast and agile. Fixing booster stacking in general would do a lot to deal with powercreep on any ship, not to mention making it actually worthwhile to spend a utility on literally anything else - and making the 2-utility small ships not feel so bad.

Honestly I wish boosters were just a case of "if you have multiple boosters, you get whichever one provides the biggest benefit in a particular category, they do not stack".

This. What honestly surprised me and made me stick with a FDL is how I could fit all A rated shield boosters on it, even though it has small-ish power plant and thrusters. Didn't feel like I had to do make any sacrifice to squeeze all the utility mount potential amount out of it - and it already had the plus of very rarely being on the side that lags behind in spinning around.

 

[Kamiyoda]

Totally this. The mamba is probably the prettiest ship in the game. I really really tried to make it work but it ended up a hangar queen while the chieftain was busy de-lifeing things.

Pvp meta aside, i can fly the FDL better but don’t like it. No really good reason aside from it being practically required for pvp.

I use a Mamba for Deep Coring and Scout fighting and it's not bad at it. I have a Mamba for normal NPCs somewhere but it sucks at that

 

[Agony_Aunt]

While, I disagree on some of the specifics of your assessment, I've been suggesting the FDL be restored to it's 1.4.x stats since they buffed it in 1.5.

For the record, they improved it's heat dissipation, increased the power plant size from five to six, added ~15% to it's pitch rate and ~10% to roll/yaw. Put it back the way it was and there would be a better mix of ships in PvP.

Unfortunately, if they do that, then either they have to downgrade the PPs in existing ships making them unflyable without reconfiguring or leaving ships with legacy PPs in game.

Neither would be treated with joy by players, not just PvPers but also PvEers.

 

[Jukelo]

For the sake of fun, I'd rather they buff several other ships to be a bit better in PvP.

For instance:
Mamba: Improve the heat dissipation a lot.
Python: Un-nerf the handling back to the way it was.
FAS: Buff so it can compete better again.
Clipper: Make it a medium ship with better shields, convergence and handling (ok, not a buff).

Can we be done with the idea that buffs = fun and nerfs = unfun already ? :/

 

[Rat Catcher]

Can we be done with the idea that buffs = fun and nerfs = unfun already ? :/

Best to just leave things exactly as they are... But add some new ships in Odyssey that can be more 'specialised' - even a passenger carrier that excels at carrying passengers would be novel...

 

[Rubbernuke]

Revert the FdLs old changes. And while you are there kick the Anaconda down to something sensible too.

 

[Arindor]

Who hated fighting the FDL in the original Elite because of its speed and agility?

 

[Jukelo]

Best to just leave things exactly as they are... But add some new ships in Odyssey that can be more 'specialised' - even a passenger carrier that excels at carrying passengers would be novel...

Adding more content while leaving existing content in a sad state is a waste of resources. If FDevs failed to make the existing pax ships any good at carrying passengers, what makes us think they can do it right this time? And if we assume they can do it right, why not forgo the costly process of adding yet another ship to the game (including the burden it puts on further balance considerations), and instead fix the existing ones, which only involves tweaking numbers?

 

[Rat Catcher]

Adding more content while leaving existing content in a sad state is a waste of resources. If FDevs failed to make the existing pax ships any good at carrying passengers, what makes us think they can do it right this time? And if we assume they can do it right, why not forgo the costly process of adding yet another ship to the game, and instead fix the existing ones, which only involves tweaking numbers?

I don't see what needs 'fixing' with the current ships, and I use most... (as I disagree with the rather blinkered comment that a dedicated combat ship shouldn't excel at combat...)
The passenger stupidity is because numbers weren't tweaked to make Luxury cabins premium, so I may agree with that

Odyssey is 'the biggest expansion ever' according to Frontier's comments - spending developer time on new ships may already have been allocated. Hopefully January will inform us

 

[Eraden]

Hmmm, I like the idea of buffing the other mediums and unnerfing the Python. To go with that though, fix whatever issues are prohibiting the use of multiple SLFs and allow the Big Four to have 2 SLFs out at once. That should liven things up a bit. On the other hand, thinking about things a bit more, realistically speaking, only the FDL and the Mamba should be the main medium murder boats. Python and Clipper are multipurpose ships and thus should always remain a bit behind the FDL and Mamba in terms of combat capabilities.