Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Craith]

If you pledge $1000 right now, i'll send you a JPG of the thread and a promise to expand the scope of the thread further while not increasing the expected delivery time of posts.

Thing is, I'd love to play that game. If they'd deliver it, I'd be all over it, even though the flightmodel is really bad IMO, but I also play Star Wars Squadrons, not everything can be the way I want it (If I got my way with Elite, for example, total player count would probably be 5).

I am annoyed that they not only broke their promises from when I pledged, but also made many rookie mistakes that even I, with my limited coding experience, would have known better. And then sell it as the Second Coming of Christ. Like space is big, you need 64bit precision ... after 3 or 4 years in? Using an engine built for small maps (relatively), for few people, that move mostly on foot (=slow), to build a game using a huge map, for many (thousands) of people, that move in spaceships (=fast). Finding out after some time that building a planet by hand is not possible, and adding some procedural tools, which they stated they wouldn't use back then. Again sell it as never been done before. No pay to win (but of course, buy money even when live / buy an Idris now!).

I would not be as annoyed if they'd ever release a game fulfilling the original promises, but they are not even able to do that. 100 star systems? Lucky if we get 10 or even 5 done in the upcoming decade. Coop singleplayer leading to PU? They have since even split the games (or not, depending what is more useful at a certain point), and coop for SQ42 hasn't been talked about in years, probably silently cut. VR? a few statements, but the way they use forced animations all over the place (worst mistake you can do in VR), the crowded HUD with its bad contrast even on a screen ... are they going to bin all that and rebuild it? (Fun fact, that might actually happen again, but the replacement will use the same mechanics, just with more fidelity).

I want to like Star Citizen, I want it to succeed. I have just realised a couple of years back that it won't ever deliver on their promises.
I may still get a useable game out of it at some point, but nothing currently shown indicates it will be worth my 75$ investment, especially when I compare it with my E investment (probably 500$ all in all), more compareable with Star Wars Squadron, fun once in a while, but after you finish the campaign not much keeping you there. At least SW:S was only 35 bucks, and I got what I expected.

 

[Bigmaec]

While in ED one can do this. I can't post the picture or describe it content right here, it's against forum rules, but if you follow the link to the reddit and zoom in, you will see the greatest pikk in the universe.

It was a squad mate, sort of

 

[Vetinari]

I pre-ordered CP2077 five weeks ago. Thankfully, if I so wanted, I could get a refund all the way up to release day. Evil consumer rights!

Total devcosts as of August 2020 stood at $110m.

Fact us that CP 2077 releases next month

So unless it gets pulled from release due to not being quite polished and in 2027 'it will be done when its done' and costs another $200M and keeps asking customers to keep paying for it all that time and then revealing that the game was only a concept and telling people 'No legal refunds' and changes the T&Cs in retrospect and bans people who speak out and ask whats happening and label people who have paid for the game FUDsters and avoids any oversight and leaks details of customer purchases and then tries to shut down any speech criticising them.....then its not like SC at all is it?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

So unless it gets pulled from release due to not being quite polished and in 2027 'it will be done when its done' and costs another $200M and keeps asking customers to keep paying for it all that time and then revealing that the game was only a concept and telling people 'No legal refunds' and changes the T&Cs in retrospect and bans people who speak out and ask whats happening and label people who have paid for the game FUDsters and avoids any oversight and leaks details of customer purchases and then tries to shut down any speech criticising them.....then its not like SC at all is it?

Not impossible, but very unlikely.

 

[LittleAnt]

Dear sir, funny that you ask us not to call you a liar and lie about CDPR not having a game delivered for 8 years in the same post.

I haven't understood where you were pointing a lie. I use the word "delivered" as it is used in this forum = a game released on the market and playable by all which is not yet the case for Cyberpunk (19 november 2020, we are the 9th).
But me nitpicking few days is just for the lol. The real argument here is that CDPR took 9 years to deliver an AAA awaited by all (myself included) and very few disaprove CDPR for this duration (me also). CIG wants to develop a game with the same ambitions and you call them incompetent since several years with one of your main argument about the duration of the development.

9 years CDPR = totally acceptable
10 years CIG (if SQ42 is released next year) = totally unacceptable

Well, at least out this discussion we got you to accept that CIG started development in 2012 (or 2011 if you believe CR) and not some random date selected to fit with your world view.

I comply in this argument to the date used here for the sake of the comparison. I've already explained my view about the date, no need to talk about it again.

 

[Vetinari]

The main problem with that reasoning is it will get weaker and weaker with every month that passes after 2077 is released...

like every other reason that relied on false comparisons so far....

like iCache and server messing will also become reasons of the past....

 

[Viajero]

CIG started with 13 employees (not all dev) in 2012 with wrong tools.

This is a common misconception, or a very limited and partial view of what actually happened. Your pick.

At the start 2011-2014 period (and also way beyond to this day) CIG had a whole array of already organized and professional companies (with already functioning development processes and ressources) working for them in all different key areas of the development: Ex CryEngine staff, Kythera / Moon Collider, Turbulent, Illfonic, CGBot, Behaviour Interactive, and also tons of freelance contractor outfits, Virtuos, Red Hot CG, Rmory etc to name a few. You can look it up.

This is also the main reason why the usual excuse by backers about having to "build the company from scratch" is nothing more than a common misconception/rationalization. CIG already relied heavily on well established studios and teams from day 1 and spent backers money accordingly.

To even suggest CIG had to build from scratch in order to develop is a bit disingenuous or uninformed at best, and downright lying/misleading at worst.

The "wrong tools" part of your post seems like a very light way for CIG to get away with sheer incompetence and lack of proper management and planning though, but hey.

 

[govny]

and very few disaprove

Cyberpunk 2077 devs are getting death threats over the delay

"We are people, just like you"

www.pcgamer.com

and all this for a delay of one month, less than a year if you count the first release date.
I care to inform you of CIG release dates for SQ 42: 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, when it is done.

you just can't help but spread lies.

 

[LittleAnt]

This is a common misconception, or a very limited and partial view of what actually happened. Your pick.

Even if you add 100 employees for the 2 games (SC+SQ42) at the start of the project, it doesn't change the fact that in this forum, 9 years CDPR = totally acceptable and 10 years CIG (if SQ42 is released next year) = totally unacceptable.

 

[LittleAnt]

Cyberpunk 2077 devs are getting death threats over the delay

"We are people, just like you"

www.pcgamer.com

and all this for a delay of one month, less than a year if you count the first release date.
you just can't help but spread lies.

"Very few" doesn't mean "no one", you see lies where there is none. Of course there are people who disapprove. You can't have a topic concerning millions of people without having a % of them who are against it/disapprove it and a very small % of those that are mentally unstable.
Just show me a forum full of disapproval toward CDPR and I will reconsider my position. But the for french and english forums I follow, the vast majority accept the delay for Cyberpunk.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Even if you add 100 employees for the 2 games (SC+SQ42) at the start of the project, it doesn't change the fact that in this forum, 9 years CDPR = totally acceptable and 10 years CIG (if SQ42 is released next year) = totally unacceptable.

Repeating stuff that isn't true doesn't make it true. If you notice disagreement getting fewer it's because of people get tired to answer to it.

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

Whatabouttism's are common at the moment eh?

It's a bit silly to compare CiG to a company with a proven track record. The key difference between the CDPR and CiG is CDPR's ability to take a project from concept to completion. Cyberpunk is going to release within the next few months (feel free to hold me to that). I would be amazed if it didn't. Star Citizen seemingly has no end in sight (and nowhere even remotely near the initial promised dates).

Can you seriously say that you are happy with the amount of progress that CiG have made in a decade? It's utterly woeful. If you can't manage a project from start to finish you'd be out of a job in ANY other situation. His only discernible talent thus far has been his ability to sell snow to an eskimo.

He has swapped investors and a board for faceless individuals on the internet who have no idea what is going on behind the scenes and can be walked away from if the project fails without any legal comeback. If it was a board looking over his shoulder he would have actual accountability. The financials have been so obfuscated by all these shell companies that trying to build a financial picture is next to impossible. That in itself is a massive red flag to me.

The only thing the two companies hold in common is their diabolical treatment of staff.

 

[Tippis]

The real argument here is that CDPR took 9 years to deliver an AAA awaited by all

But that's a false argument. You keep inflating that number, and even the first one you used was unsourced.

10 years CIG (if SQ42 is released next year) = totally unacceptable

…and so is this. Because it's already 10 years according to CRobber, and there has been no word about if or when SQ42 might be released.

If you're going to make things up, can you please at least be consistent?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Whatabouttism's are common at the moment eh?

It's a bit silly to compare CiG to a company with a proven track record. The key difference between the CDPR and CiG is CDPR's ability to take a project from concept to completion. Cyberpunk is going to release within the next few months (feel free to hold me to that). I would be amazed if it didn't. Star Citizen seemingly has no end in sight (and nowhere even remotely near the initial promised dates).

Can you seriously say that you are happy with the amount of progress that CiG have made in a decade? It's utterly woeful. If you can't manage a project from start to finish you'd be out of a job in ANY other situation. His only discernible talent thus far has been his ability to sell snow to an eskimo.

He has swapped investors and a board for faceless individuals on the internet who have no idea what is going on behind the scenes and can be walked away from if the project fails without any legal comeback. If it was a board looking over his shoulder he would have actual accountability. The financials have been so obfuscated by all these shell companies that trying to build a financial picture is next to impossible. That in itself is a massive red flag to me.

The only thing the two companies hold in common is their diabolical treatment of staff.

CP2077 is a popular topic for SC trolling. By now I think there is some sort of ready-packaged toolset for the faithful there and that's why it's repeated ad absurdity and without much sense.

 

[LittleAnt]

Repeating stuff that isn't true doesn't make it true. If you notice disagreement getting fewer it's because of people get tired to answer to it.

What is false in your quote ? Nobody ever said in this forum that CIG was incompetent for not delivering a AAAA (expression used several times here) after 8 years ?
We should find those who make this statment to ask them if they find also CDPR incompetent...

CP2077 is a popular topic for SC trolling. By now I think there is some sort of ready-packaged toolset for the faithful there and that's why it's repeated ad absurdity and without much sense.

It's popular because it's a perfect tool to show how biased some SC's haters are

 

[Tippis]

What is false in your quote ?

Your supposed 8 years that now has somehow turned into 9…

 

[Skizomeuh]

CP2077 is weeks away, so in its polishing phase, SQ42/SC are years away from being out of alpha stage. Stop comparing please!

 

[Viajero]

Even if you add 100 employees for the 2 games (SC+SQ42) at the start of the project, it doesn't change the fact that in this forum, 9 years CDPR = totally acceptable and 10 years CIG (if SQ42 is released next year) = totally unacceptable.

I see lots of contradictory information about CP2077 dev start. I see plenty of sources and statements from CDPR itself that contradict your particular quote for example.

On the other hand the info about how CIG relied on well established studios and teams from day 1 and spent backers money accordingly is quite clear. Stating simplistically as you did that "CIG started with 13 employees " is a bit disingenuous or uninformed at best, and downright lying/misleading at worst.

 

[LittleAnt]

CP2077 is weeks away, so in its polishing phase, SQ42/SC are years away from being out of alpha stage. Stop comparing please!

SC are years away >>> valid
SQ42 are years away >>> you don't know. Do you have special info to share ?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

SC are years away >>> valid
SQ42 are years away >>> you don't know. Do you have special info to share ?

SQ42 isn't years away. It's made up entirely. They have nothing to show for.