ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing

[AJCor]

Typical FDev. I bought this game under the impression that you could play the way you wanted but all they seem to care about is combat and mining.

What about smuggling?
What about piracy?
What about search and rescue?
What about salvaging?
What about passenger transport?

It's sad to see all this wasted potential. I was really happy when space legs was announced and I really hope it lives up to expectations, but seeing stuff like this? How many times have they "fixed" combat and mining? And then think about the last time they touched on ANY of those other activities that wasn't a direct nerf. Sad isn't it?

 

[Goof141]

All I'm seeing here is a bunch of nerfs to mining and some minor buffs to combat missions and exploration.

The community manager asking us what changes we would like to PP/CQC/Piracy ONLY after people called them out for not mentioning it AT ALL in the initial post is very telling of how much FDev or it's managers actually pay attention or care about these areas of the game. Not to mention the hundreds of threads over the last 5 to 6 years of players suggesting changes to be made to these woefully outdated modes seemingly being treated as if they never existed.

If you guys cared about actually fixing these modes, you would have done it years ago.

 

[Scython3791]

Ok.. so it was asked in 1st page, mentioned in 7th page, we're in 11th on the way to the 12th and no comments have been made regarding Pulse Wave.

I love deep core mining, it's one of the best activities in Elite Dangerous. I miss doing it and just knowing the fact the prices will improve, even better. Thing is...
Will Pulse Wave be fixed when these changes go live?

they addressed this in the recent live stream saying it won't be fixed when these changes go live but they are working on a fix

 

[Airtroops83]

Bruce I have to say I'm really happy to see this... but a few things that I think are important need to be said.

Give the players something before taking our toys away. Rather consistently, the community feels like all that is ever done is nerfs. Why, WHY would yall think its a good idea to start with a nerf instead of starting with a buff? In so many ways this is just wrong. In terms of optics, in terms of player sentiment, in terms of stable game economy, I could go on. The biggest argument is that these changes take time, which would you rather? People getting frustrated that their stockholm syndrome "favorite activity" just got nerfed AGAIN and possibly leaving, or people getting happy to try out the new higher rewards in combat? In the months that it will take yall, after the mining nerf, to get around to buffing combat pay, people are going to do one of two things: 1. they are going to do the exact same thing and just be more ed off about it (mining), or 2. they are going to get ed off and leave or strongly reduce their time in game. Which one sounds more healthy to players wallets, attitudes, and relationship to the game? The easiest way to take candy from a baby afterall, is to give it something else to focus on.

Secondarily, There needs to be some looks into the weapons, as combat itself is really not okay right now. Weapons that take more skill to use should offer higher damage. Do you know how sad it is to want to out and try something funky and realize that with the exception of the space shotgun, there is no real reason outside of pvp to EVER for any reason, use anything other than machine guns and lazers? That is so... boring. Any fps game that you pick up you would automatically know that the most effective weapons will be hardest to use, and that the easiest to use will have a penalty (sniper >handcannon> DMR > autorifle). If it doesn't work like that, or the reward in damage/kill efficiency is not properly high enough, you will quickly feel disgusted and stop playing.
Other weapons that are harder to use or have more niche purposes NEED to be brought up to do higher practical sustained damage, not just more burst damage, than the standard (machine guns). Additionally, the underused weapons need a really strong look.
For example, the most egregious case, Cannons. Cannons could be so damn cool, but instead they are relegated to "a poor mans PA". The two need far more differentiation and the cannon needs help in other areas too (PLEASE make cannons of all sizes have a universal speed that changes depending only on fixed, gimballed, or turreted).
How about.... Torpedos? Can you at leastmake it possible to synthesize them or carry extras in your cargo bay? These should be amazing but they are so incredibly lackluster no one touches them unless they are trying to make a meme build. I long for the day when they become the nuclear warheads they are supposed to be and a trader can turn on a pirate and try to win that fight in an all or nothing gamble with his torpedos, or at least make the pirate maneuver, giving the merchant time to escape.

Lets talk about weapon variants. Either engineering needs a massive overhaul, or yall need to introduce more weapon variants. I know yall remember freespace: colossus. How is it that a game made 2 decades before this one has more types of missiles? It wouldn't take much to add an engineering slider to missiles that trades payload for speed in either direction (make fast lower damage rockets, or a slow big warhead) Packhound missiles are already here so thats fine. Armour piercing rockets. Dumb fire seekers (track closest heat signiture) would give smart munitions a reason to exist.
and PLEASE, WEAPONS PLATFORMS: its an easy implementation to community has been asking for for years. (turn a large weapon mount into 2 smalls, or a huge into a medium 1 small, or however it needs to be for balance)
I could go like this for each weapon type but I won't, I have in the past and it hasn't even been heard. The point is, we need more tools, more variety, and there needs to be REAL CHOICES not just "overcharge or efficient it", and they need to ALL be viable. How much of a FPS would you play if there were only 3ish weapons that were worth using? I've always been blown away that the weapons haven't been touched in any meaningful way since engineering 1.0...

A big part of making Eliteangerous, dangerous again is going to be making combat more FUN as well as profitable. PLEASE make me want to come back. I WANT this game to be better.


I'm glad you've taken over as community manager, as this is the most feedback or talking from fdev I've seen in all my years playing or looking at the forums. I look forward to hearing more from you.



and since this is the first time I've seen fdev actually talk back... please change the 2 small hardpoints on the corvette nose to 2 mediums.

 

[Exeider]

apparently the economy is based on mining or minerals or should be, makes sense if it did. So they start with the one that affects everything else first then bring everything else into line with it....eventually...in lots of little steps.

But it doesn't, the economy of combat and trade is not contingent on mining. You can't make anything with the materials you mine nor are the prices effected by supply and demand curves that a player run economy would function.

The quoted poster is correct, people are asking for a buff to combat first and fore most, trade second, no body said a damn thing about mining since you effectively can't core mine because of a busted PWA. And laser mining was "fixed" when they set the distribution fixes for hot spots. Nobody said a damn thing about mining and Fdev knows it.

 

[GroG79]

Looks like AX will get a huge increase.. Cause now fdev listens to complains... Can not wait to see the next exploit.. 150 million for a hydra , speedyboi for 10 times a cyclops.. Oh yes we can instagib them... And cyclops needs no adjusting.. So a Hydra is 75 times more difficult compared to a cyclops?

Please do not listen to the majority. Doubling ax rewards would come a long way in rebalancing.

 

[TScal12]

I'm pro Open-only Powerplay and BGS personally. I understand this is a long standing debate and know a few of the reasons it hasn't happened before. Maybe we'll be ready to have that conversation again sometime in the near future.

Please don't touch the BGS, it's what I love about the game as a solo player. Open Only Powerplay I get though

 

[nrage]

I saw another comment on this earlier in the thread. I'd be concerned about continual bounties placed on players maliciously for reasons outside of the game. What do you think?

Limit the frequency.
Allow for a temporary, visible only to all non-friends, commander name "change". Like a postal redirection, but for hate.

 

[skananote]

I'm starting to get my faith back in Elite. I appreciate it so much. Thanks FDev for this beautiful deed!

Give it some time. Those are only proposed changes. Wondering what are they going to break this time. PWA wasn't on purpose....

 

[Exeider]

Typical FDev. I bought this game under the impression that you could play the way you wanted but all they seem to care about is combat and mining.

What about smuggling?
What about piracy?
What about search and rescue?
What about salvaging?
What about passenger transport?

It's sad to see all this wasted potential. I was really happy when space legs was announced and I really hope it lives up to expectations, but seeing stuff like this? How many times have they "fixed" combat and mining? And then think about the last time they touched on ANY of those other activities that wasn't a direct nerf. Sad isn't it?

I know right, smuggling should automatically have a multiplier on all prices because of the difficulty added. Piracy should include some form of Pirate equivelent of bounty hunting where the pirate org pays you for pirating and gives you a good bonus on any goods you pirate on their behalf.

S&R, I would break out my rescue ship again, then again, there needs to be an increase in S&R type USSs

Same with salvaging, but then again Fdev did say salvaging would get a whole game mechanic for Odyssey so, it might be better to wait for that salvaging rather then mess with what passes for salvaging in the game now.

Passengers, if trade gets a buff, passengers need it too.

I completely agree with the Combat players, combat needs a buff. Until all these mechanics are brought up to speed, they shouldnt even touch mining, they've messed with it enough.

 

[aRJay]

Greetings Commanders!

Game balance has been at the heart of many discussions around Elite Dangerous, for a long time, and rightly so. At its core, Elite Dangerous is about blazing your own trail and we want all Commanders to feel fairly rewarded for whichever path they choose.

To this end, we have taken a close look at the current state of the game and where we would like it to be. Using our data combined with your feedback, we have created a plan of incremental changes we hope will bring the key gameplay mechanics more in line with each other.

What's Changing?

Elite Dangerous has seen a lot of changes since its release in 2014. Among many other aspects of the game, these changes have affected the core gameplay elements and how players earn credits. Over that time, while we have made some balancing adjustments, these elements have inevitably grown out of sync.

In response to your feedback, will bring a series of balancing adjustments to the rate at which credits are earned in each core gameplay mechanic: mining, trade, combat and exploration. Our goal is to have rewards better match the level of skill, effort, and risk each method requires. This means we'll see increased credit rates in some activities and reductions in others.

Crucially, this re-balancing will be an ongoing process where we spend time observing how the changes affect the game and how you, the community, respond both in-game and with your feedback. This may mean several adjustments are needed for each type of gameplay before settling on final values. Giving each method attention in isolation will allow us to more accurately see the results and tweak accordingly, hence the step by step approach, but ultimately they all need to work in the context of each other.

Mining and combat stand out from your feedback as needing the most attention with regards to balancing. As such, we will begin with mining, bring the top range down to a point we see as fair and look at which aspects of mining should offer the greatest rewards based on the skill required.

After this, we intend to look at increasing bounties and solo combat missions in the weeks that follow to meet expected levels. From there we can turn to the still important but less pressing elements such as other mission types and exploration.

These changes will be woven into Elite Dangerous lore and introduced through the narrative. The first can be expected early next week in the form of a GalNet article.

Mining and Trade

Mining has been the most lucrative role within Elite Dangerous for a long time. While this makes perfect sense as pilots find, extract, and transport huge quantities of precious minerals, the gap has become disproportional. This has allowed even brand new Commanders to become wealthy enough to buy the highest performing ships very quickly. For the health and longevity of Elite Dangerous, we're going to considerably reduce the payout of this activity so that it remains lucrative but players won't feel compelled to head out to the latest triple hotspot whenever they need credits.

The following changes will be implemented early next week as a starting point:

These approximate maximum prices offered by markets for the following commodities will be introduced:

• Painite - 600,000
• Low Temperature Diamonds - 700,000
• Void Opals - 1,300,000

To recognise and reward the extra effort and skill needed for core mining, the majority of minerals extracted this way will see an increase in price, barring Void Opals mentioned above. Several mining commodities which can be bought will have the range of their prices increased, resulting in a higher number of goods with strong profit margins (25,000+) when commodity markets are in suitable states.

To benefit trade, we'll also bring the following changes:

• Commodity markets will offer the average price rather than minimum price when selling in bulk. This will affect all commodities.
• The base prices of a number of general salvage items will be increased.

What's Next?

As above, these first changes will happen early next week. We'll spend time observing their effects and listening to your feedback before deciding whether further adjustments are needed.

Next, we intend to adjust combat rewards in the form of bounties and mission payouts. You can expect to hear the planned changes before the date is announced in a post similar to this one.

Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding that this isn't a fast process and it will take time for the effects to become clear.

We would also most importantly like to thank you for your continued constructive feedback on this topic, which will be invaluable during this process!

Thanks for your support,

o7

Thinking about risk and reward regarding mining, your post covers adjustments to the rewards but how about adjustments to the risks, no not adding pirates or randomising yields, how about things like being too close to an exploding core actually putting your ship in danger instead of just messing up the HUD for a few seconds.

 

[bookmite]

I would also like to see reputation balanced. It seems wrong a new player can tuck him/herself into a cutter in one day. let alone earn enough to buy one.
To throw something in the pot for discussion, swing the rep gain over to powerplay, ( after fixing /updating the BGS ) and make it open play only. Normal faction rep can be kept as is. That would indeed encourage cmdrs to get more acquainted and improve their piloting skills. This alone would transform our game and add the incentives for the pvp community.

Also- AX rewards, needs a balance to bring the rewards into line with the risks

- Mining rewards. its one thing reducing the sales values of minerals, and another reducing the spawn rates. Its difficult to core mine right now because of the issues with the pulse wave. If the devs could fix the pulse wave then the proposed mineral sales values might work out.

 

[BurglarOfBanff_ff]

What about prices for other valuable minerals? Opals are the easiest core since you can recognize a good rock from a distance before prospecting it.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Are there any plans to make piracy and smuggling more lucrative?

It seems that crime doesn't pay.

 

[markyp4334]

There’s been a lot talk about increased AX payouts am not sure if this has been covered but saying AX combat is the hardest and most risky PvE in a elite I think the experience you get from a kill should be increased as well with each interceptor giving you more with bigger thargoids. I don’t think you should gain the same amount of experience towards your combat rank for killing a scout and then get the same for killing a hydra will this be looked at?

 

[WhoCares]

One possible PvP outlet would be using Open Powerplay- it could be that merits held by the opposition scum / valiant hero could be 'won' by the victor on destruction. It can't really be gamed because the merits count to your personal weekly rank and are not 'direct' money.

That will require a bigger PP rework. As is
a) Fortification doesn't really care about solo or open - a few potential rebuys, but a dedicated effort to fortification will always succeed.
b) Undermining on the other hand is doomed to fail the moment you are spotted in doing so => see a).

Speaking of which and getting back on-topic - currently dropped PP cargo has no (black) market value - it would be great to earn some extra credits by sending hatchbreaker limpets at my targets before I kill them. Right now all I get is a bounty and worthless but illegal cargo...

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

I would just add that you compared the new no-skill baseline earning through mining to what top AX pilots should earn. I don't think that's quite right. Anyone who can solo a meduse (or even a basilisk) should earn more than laser miners IMO, so I would buff those numbers a little bit.

I agree, the numbers I quoted were probably low if one truly wants to balance earnings to reward skill. I am past the point where I really need to care about credit earnings, but I would be perfectly fine with a Hydra paying significantly more to be honest.

 

[Xmar]

As a brand new player (week old), this really makes me want to stop playing.

It is a major challenge to start a game that has been ongoing for years. While I could go on & on about the enormous amount of new player friction that is built into the game, that is a separate topic.

Making enough money to be able to afford to meaningfully participate in various activities is one of many walls new players hit. I get that money has been easy to come by for years & that has caused many of the older players to play in what amounts to a post scarcity society. Where they have so much money, that it means nothing. They can afford to lose ships left, right & center & not blink.

Have the devs stopped caring about getting & retaining new players?
I can promise you that new players will be looking up guides & finding a ton of resources saying that players for years were able to ride a gravy train to money but they won't be able to because devs decided that the money hill needed to be steeper for new players.

Just another new player friction brick on the wall.

 

[Deleted member 254766]

Bruce - CQC wise... Some things that I believe that could be implemented by Frontier pretty quick. If you don't want to increase credit payouts for CQC - then why can't we get ARX for playing? At least that would be an incentive for some CMDR's to play it? In terms of credits - I'm Elite, and have only earned 16.5 million credits in 15 months of playing. Even if it was given a 100% boost, I would have only earned 33 million in going up towards 2 years of playing. It's still a very low payout compared to main game PvE and PvP combat.

Also - CQC is one of the 4 Elite Ranks. We need a decal for it. THIS HAS BEEN ASKED FOR PREVIOUSLY. There's only a few of us at Elite - but a decal I don't think is too much to ask for CQC ranks...

o7

 

[Lyamecron]

Hey Bruce, thank you very much for delivering us this piece of information. I am no PVP player and I have never done smuggling in the game, so I cannot talk about those topics, but PVE and Exploration are in dire need of a buff.

So the easiest one first. Exploration. It doesn't pay that well but it's in a better state than PVE and the other activities, except mining of course. However I would very much like to multiply the current payout by 2.5x at least. When you are exploring and are somewhat lucky with your findings, you can generate about 80-100 Million in 10 or more hours of gameplay. Now, exploration should net a much higher payout since it's not only skill-based and time-consuming but also heavily luck based. Earth-likes would pay around 10 Mil each with the multipicator in place. Since they are rare to come around, they should also net an appropriate sum. But also if you do not find any EL-worlds you should at least make some money from the trip.

Now PVE... Why is it that elite-anacondas only give up to 300 or 400k? It's not like there is a dozen or so in an extraction site ready to be blown up. The maximum payout for wanted npc ship kills should be as high as 2 Mil. Bounties should range in between, with large and the most dangerous vessels paying the most.

For Combat zones, there are in fact a lot of big ships present and I know you just cant give them 2 Mil bounties each, however I would balance those sites with their difficulty in mind. If possible, I would add a payout on top of the regular kills and whatnot, that is given to the participating CMDRs as soon as the battle is either won or lost.
Lets say in a high conflict zone you can get up to 7.5 Mil for a victory and 2.5 Mil for a loose. If this is to complicated to implement for now, why not pay more for special achievements like killing the enemy captain (2 Mil) or killing the enemy capital ship (5mil).

AX is by far the highest skill activity in the PVE spectrum. Currently an Cyclops nets 2 Mil, thats just too little for the time and effort, not to count the ships you will loose if you do this kind of content for the first time lol. Payouts should be increased by at least a factor of 3 for all thargoids. Scouts should pay at least 100k.

Thats just my opinion, feel free to correct me if you got other experiences.

~Lyamecron