The new commoditiy system is screwed.

[Mrc_NorthEast]

I had thought the same, although I didn't have any proof as I cannot watch the commodity prices during the day while I am working. If that is the case however, all you need to do is fill up your cargo hold the night before, travel to a likely station to sell in the am, and sell before work in the am. (or during a quick break) If you ended up picking the wrong station hopefully you are not too far away to a good selling price. But I agree if FDev picks a 'pet' or 'favorite' timezone, that would be really sleazy. And of course I hope FDev follows through with their 'promise' to balance all the income streams, but right now all we have is a NERF to several popular ways of earning credits without any buffs to other income streams.

 

[Dan Sho]

If so, good. Demand and supply regeneration could stand to be about 1% of what it currently is, in order to create a more dynamic ecnomic environment where people don't just farm the FOTM income spinner in the one location constantly. Create some proper shortages and oversupply situations.

I am totally with you, but this have to be implemented into a live economy system and this is hell of a work due to the massive amount of stations and systems.

 

[Dan Sho]

I'm not missing the point at all. I'm disagreeing with it.

What alternatives do you suggest? Players are all over the world, change the tick time and other players will be 'disadvantaged'. I imagine only a small % of players crowd into the highest paying market station waiting for the tick to sell their carrier full of whatever the most lucrative commodity is. The rest, most, will sell at a price they find acceptable, within an acceptable range of their preferred mining spot.

The only way to solve this is to get rid of the tick and have a live system for everything - economy, bgs and whatever..

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I'm not missing the point at all. I'm disagreeing with it.

What alternatives do you suggest? Players are all over the world, change the tick time and other players will be 'disadvantaged'. I imagine only a small % of players crowd into the highest paying market station waiting for the tick to sell their carrier full of whatever the most lucrative commodity is. The rest, most, will sell at a price they find acceptable, within an acceptable range of their preferred mining spot.

25h or 23h tick cycle. That one hour difference means that in the long run no time zone is disadvantaged.

 

[Alone Wulff]

The only way to solve this is to get rid of the tick and have a live system for everything - economy, bgs and whatever..

Well that would be ideal but I don't think it would help. For a start, you'd struggle to find rares required to unlock engineers because players would intentionally buy them all up and hoard them on carriers, just for a laugh. Other players would intentionally ruin the economy so nothing would be worth anything.

 

[Dan Sho]

25h or 23h tick cycle. That one hour difference means that in the long run no time zone is disadvantaged.

True, but once there is is some servermaintenance going on the time of the tick will change and you will have a disadvantage for some players again. If not modified hardly the new system will never work with a tick, like we have right now.

 

[Dan Sho]

Well that would be ideal but I don't think it would help. For a start, you'd struggle to find rares required to unlock engineers because players would intentionally buy them all up and hoard them on carriers, just for a laugh. Other players would intentionally ruin the economy so nothing would be worth anything.

Thats what they can do with the current system too. But in a "live" system with replenishing markets it will be much much harder and way more expensive to hord stuff.

 

[Chaines]

Everything is like that you know. I'm a night worker, so everybody make noises when it's my time to sleep and i can just suck it up. But if I made noise on my wake up time, neighbor can call the cops.
Anyway, i agree it's unfair that way. Maybe 2 or 3 ticks a day with lower numbers can fix that ?

 

[BL1P]

I dont believe anything is being changed. Panite was or still is broken with concerns demand.
Once its fixed it will work the same as all other commodities in the game.

Thats a good thing not a bad thing.

I do not know if stations only replenish at the tick, I will wait to hear from Ian Doncaster on the matter.
I havent seen anything from Fdev about them changing the way the system works.

 

[Dan Sho]

I havent seen anything from Fdev about them changing the way the system works.

FDev never explained anything. This might be good or bad, just as you like.

 

[Maymo]

Commodities are all meant to fluctuate in demand/cost...

Painite (and possibly a few others) didn’t. They were like an un-fillable hole in the market that just pumped out credits. At least, this is how I understood it...

I’m very glad that this has been changed. I look forward to mining again, it will be nice to fill up my cargo hold with a wider variety of commodities without feeling like I’m sabotaging my own profits just to remain sensible.

I’d like to add that it’s still probably a little early for doom threads. Things really aren’t very stable right now and there’s still more changes to come.

 

[Maymo]

I dont believe anything is being changed. Panite was or still is broken with concerns demand.
Once its fixed it will work the same as all other commodities in the game.

Thats a good thing not a bad thing.

I do not know if stations only replenish at the tick, I will wait to hear from Ian Doncaster on the matter.
I havent seen anything from Fdev about them changing the way the system works.

I’m pretty sure stations replenish almost continually, every 10 or so minutes a depleted commodity will gradually increase...

Of course, if its been drained to 0 it will take some hours for it to fully recover.

Don’t think you have to wait for a daily tick.

 

[Jmanis]

I’m pretty sure stations replenish almost continually, every 10 or so minutes a depleted commodity will gradually increase...

Of course, if its been drained to 0 it will take some hours for it to fully recover.

Don’t think you have to wait for a daily tick.

There's definitely been observations that hitting 0 causes a delay before that market will start to recover.

 

[Cheradenine]

They should hire someone who knows what they're doing in terms of economy and implement realistic demands in the galaxy - it would also be good if players were able to buy and sell their engineering materials. Sure, for someone who has the knowledge and the money (like an alt) this would allow them to be 'up and running' at a much faster pace, some will even say at an unfair pace - but for the rest of the galaxy it would create a good motion forward and upwards where otherwise there is a halt, a standstill of boring grinding and repetition.

 

[Quantis Trap]

The economy was broken years ago. About 3-6 months after the launch, when there was no roleback when the players figured how to exploit the crap out of the game.

Remind me about how it was back then. I remember lots of exploits coming and going but not quite that far back. Then again, back then I was purposefully not interested in exploits because I was focusing strongly on getting my first Triple Elite without using any cheats, which I did fairly soon after.
What was the nature of the earliest time players were able to "exploit the crap out of the game"? That might lend some light for me on when it started going south, so the speak.

 

[BL1P]

I’m pretty sure stations replenish almost continually, every 10 or so minutes a depleted commodity will gradually increase...

Of course, if its been drained to 0 it will take some hours for it to fully recover.

Don’t think you have to wait for a daily tick.

That was my understanding too, though I wasnt 100% sure. I seem to remember too, that states effect supply and demand amounts as well as prices or prices are a by product of the supply demand fluctuations caused by states. Once again not 100% sure.

One thing I am sure about is that States create increased and decreased prices at stations.
When demand reaches Zero, I tend not to stick around. Normally im gone well before then as with anything but painite the price drops along with the demand.

What we have had in the past is prices staying high even though demand has gone, once that bug is fully removed things will even out. Cmdrs will need to move around more to get the best prices. As it should be.

The 10mins you mention sounds very plausible as that would mean Market and Missions are using the same timer. In that case its every 10mins on the ingame clock. 00:00 - 00:10 etc etc etc.

 

[theBreadSultan]

Commodities are all meant to fluctuate in demand/cost...

Painite (and possibly a few others) didn’t. They were like an un-fillable hole in the market that just pumped out credits. At least, this is how I understood it...

I’m very glad that this has been changed. I look forward to mining again, it will be nice to fill up my cargo hold with a wider variety of commodities without feeling like I’m sabotaging my own profits just to remain sensible.

I’d like to add that it’s still probably a little early for doom threads. Things really aren’t very stable right now and there’s still more changes to come.

I just did about 2hrs all told - double hot-spot in a t10 made for mining - and after endless mucking about managed to get all of 40mil.

Thats in a 400+ million 'end game' ship.
This is free to play levels of grind

I just unlocked the corvette after masses of grind, and I can't even have fun with it.

Will see if this was an unlucky fluke, but otherwise I'm probably just going to go back to other games, and will keep my fps skills sharp so I can make tears happen when odessy drops, but I'm not holding my breath.

Seems like fdev have made the classic mistake of tuning the game for the top 1% of the player base -

The smart move would have been to rebalance mining, not nerf it. That means you up the price of the other stuff.

I'd refit my t10 for exploration, but I'm not gonna grind for hours to do so

Remember in 20hrs of game time, you can burn through an entire cod battle pass on a free game and get loads of content

And cyberpunk is dropping soon...

 

[Maolagin]

Regarging the new comodity system it looks like, the demand for a commodity (i.e. Painite) of a station will be replenished once a day (with the tick) and will be lowered continiously by the players selling to the station. When the demand reaches 0 it will stay at 0 until the next tick.

As a result, the player who is able to play the game right after the tick will have the opportunity to sell at high prices and earn alot of credits, whilst all the players starting the game a few hours later, i.e. they are in another timezone, are highly disadvantaged due to lower or no demand left wich results in lower prices.

While we won't know for sure until we have many days worth of data, it is pretty unlikely that demand is refreshing once a day.

The way it works for almost all other goods is that demand is depleted as players sell that good to market, and every ten minutes it recovers a small amount. (A similar process governs supply levels.) How much it recovers depends on a bunch of factors, but in general more valuable goods recover slower. Until this latest update, several valuable mined commodities were exceptions to this rule, and either did not have diminishing demand, or else the demand regenerated too fast to matter. We haven't AFAIK been told if this was a bug or intentional, but either way it sounds like that has now changed.

Regardless, players will not usually face a timezone-dependent handicap. The exception is going to be the same as with the current cheap Tritium rushes - when state changes cause large swings in supply/demand/price, those able to find and exploit the market right after the tick will have an advantage.

 

[BL1P]

Remind me about how it was back then. I remember lots of exploits coming and going but not quite that far back. Then again, back then I was purposefully not interested in exploits because I was focusing strongly on getting my first Triple Elite without using any cheats, which I did fairly soon after.
What was the nature of the earliest time players were able to "exploit the crap out of the game"? That might lend some light for me on when it started going south, so the speak.

I imagine they are referring to the selling of ships and modules to make a profit.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Can anyone else confirm this change?

Until now its always been dynamic and I don't know why FD would change this.

Still, as i understand it, FD plan to balance risk/reward across the board, which will soon mean mining is no longer the darling of grinders, and they will move onto something else, possibly combat or certain types of missions. Then a daily tick wouldn't matter, there will be plenty of demand for the people who continue to do mining.