The new commoditiy system is screwed.

[CMDR Serra]

Still sell it - never spend all your money on a stock ship if you can't afford any upgrades. Don't you play this game at all?

@theBreadSultan Maybe get a Phantom in the meantime. There's a lot of commonality in parts and the Phantom hull is about 20m cheaper.
Plus the Phantom is an awesome ship.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

What would you advise to the player who has just spent all his money on a stock python and has 200k below the rebuy left?

So that's about 2 million in cash...

Buy a Cobra III (if you don't already have one), fit a fuel scoop and detailed surface scanner, and upgrade a few of the core internals slightly - https://s.orbis.zone/9qw_

That sets you back about a million credits, and rebuys for 50k. So you've now got plenty of room for error. Obvious ways to make money with it:
- use the detailed surface scanner to map terraformables, water worlds, ammonia worlds and ELWs in the bubble near you
- run data courier missions
- fit a SRV as well, and do data scan missions

That should get you at least a few million credits in an hour, which solves your immediate rebuy problem on the Python, in ways that generally won't attract NPCs to try to kill you (or if it does, they'll be ones you can run away from, and if you can't the 50k rebuy loss on a cheap Cobra is affordable).

Then you can start doing whatever you needed the Python for.

 

[askavir]

And here in lies the rub,

The mining nerf isn't an issue... If you already have a fleet carrier -

What would you advise to the player who has just spent all his money on a stock python and has 200k below the rebuy left?

I'd first advise never to change shp until you have the rebuy for it.

Then, load it with cargo racks and go to one of those extraction systems offering gold and palladium delivery missions ranging from 4 to 9 millions each for 120-180 tons (you'll need to rank up to allied first). Bonus if you use a system pair that creates those missions all for the same destination so you can take more than on at a a time and maximize profits.

I'll even give you 1 example for free: Taygeta system in the Pleiades, all delivery missions go to the same destination station one jump away. Both the source and destination are large stations, so after a short while you'll be able to upgrade to a large ship and make even more money faster, taking 5 missions at a time, making around 33 million per one jump roundtrip.

Sothis works too for a Python, all the missions from the extraction outpost in Sothis have Ceos as destination (destination stations may vary though).

Always accept all missions available which pay more than 4 million, even if you don't have cargo space for all of them, that way you'll make sure there are always missions ready to go for when you return for another load. Just make sure you stop accepting more missions when it's nearing the time to stop playing.

Don't forget you must rank up to allied before the best missions become available. And you'll be interdicted. A lot. So practice that interdiction minigame.

Another option, not so profitable but only requires a tiny ship equipped with nothing but the default data link scanner: go into a system where all the planetary base scans have the same destination system one jump away. There's lots of those in the Pleiades and most especially in the Witch head nebula. Accept all base scan missions you find, they range from 1.5 million to around 3 million a pop. Then jump to the destination system and scan all of them and return for your paycheck. You'll only need a sidewinder or eagle for this, don't even need an SRV as the ship data link scanner can be used for it. You'll become wanted, but it's the Witch head nebula, who cares?..

 

[CMDR Serra]

...
You'll become wanted, but it's the Witch head nebula, who cares?..

The Allied Commission still don't like me from about 6 month ago. Plus my Alliance "Superpower" rep has only just gone into the positive.

EDIT: plus at least now there's an independent IF station out there.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

So... pretend you're a fisherman. If you set up at the fish wholesale market in time for when it opens to buyers you'll get the best price for your fish. If you arrive half an hour before the market closes you'll get pennies or worst-case you'll get nothing for your fish as there'll be no demand.

I don't think 'realism' is the most stupid idea at all. You can either get to the market on time, or you can't. If you can't, you just need to find the next-best alternative market.

The point about the tick is valid though, and I hope that's not how it works.

 

[Nathan84]

So your advice is sell the python...

OK let's say they have done a few low risk missions and have the rebuy, but it's stock, and they have only the rebuy and not a penny more...

What do they do?

They stop rushing from meta ship to meta ship while blindly following farming guides on YT, and instead try to find pleasure in flying whatever ship they can actually afford to buy, upgrade and insure. And doing that while enjoying the game and learning stuff.

What a stupid idea, I know

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The point about the tick is valid though, and I hope that's not how it works.

It's not entirely how it works.

Prices are determined by two major factors:
1) Demand - which regenerates continuously, though extremely slowly in the case of core gems, and can go negative - and needs to be above a minimum threshold to give a higher price. These cause gradual ups and downs in prices (unless someone sells a lot in which case it can be quite a steep change)

2) BGS states from the political simulation - which can change daily, currently at about 2pm - which cause step changes in prices, some small, some very large.

So, at 2pm the states change and the prices with them. But no-one knows yet where the new best prices are that result from that. As they get found and advertised on sites like EDDB and Inara, the continuous demand part will drop the prices. But there are 20,000 systems in the bubble, and only 10,000 or so get updated to those services each day, so even by the end of the day there's still potentially plenty of others with good prices out there.

Regardless of what time you're playing at, the key is to find the high-priced system before anyone else does (either someone deliberately looking, or someone just passing through while sending market data).

If there was perfect real-time data available out of the game - say twenty times as many people using 3rd party tools - then there probably would be a big advantage to playing just after the tick. As it is ... not really.

One of the things Frontier seem to be doing with the price changes is diversifying the number of different goods that can have this sort of behaviour, too - either for mining or for bulk trading - so that it's not just "watch the Painite prices", but lots of other minable minerals and lots of other bulk cargoes can also be profitable if you get there first.

 

[CMDR Deano The Imperial]

It's not entirely how it works.

Prices are determined by two major factors:
1) Demand - which regenerates continuously, though extremely slowly in the case of core gems, and can go negative - and needs to be above a minimum threshold to give a higher price. These cause gradual ups and downs in prices (unless someone sells a lot in which case it can be quite a steep change)

2) BGS states from the political simulation - which can change daily, currently at about 2pm - which cause step changes in prices, some small, some very large.

So, at 2pm the states change and the prices with them. But no-one knows yet where the new best prices are that result from that. As they get found and advertised on sites like EDDB and Inara, the continuous demand part will drop the prices. But there are 20,000 systems in the bubble, and only 10,000 or so get updated to those services each day, so even by the end of the day there's still potentially plenty of others with good prices out there.

Regardless of what time you're playing at, the key is to find the high-priced system before anyone else does (either someone deliberately looking, or someone just passing through while sending market data).

If there was perfect real-time data available out of the game - say twenty times as many people using 3rd party tools - then there probably would be a big advantage to playing just after the tick. As it is ... not really.

One of the things Frontier seem to be doing with the price changes is diversifying the number of different goods that can have this sort of behaviour, too - either for mining or for bulk trading - so that it's not just "watch the Painite prices", but lots of other minable minerals and lots of other bulk cargoes can also be profitable if you get there first.

But FDev went too far and over nerfed Painite, it's the end of ED as we know it. No more sources of income, EVER.

 

[theBreadSultan]

@theBreadSultan Maybe get a Phantom in the meantime. There's a lot of commonality in parts and the Phantom hull is about 20m cheaper.
Plus the Phantom is an awesome ship.

So that's about 2 million in cash...

Buy a Cobra III (if you don't already have one), fit a fuel scoop and detailed surface scanner, and upgrade a few of the core internals slightly - https://s.orbis.zone/9qw_

That sets you back about a million credits, and rebuys for 50k. So you've now got plenty of room for error. Obvious ways to make money with it:

• use the detailed surface scanner to map terraformables, water worlds, ammonia worlds and ELWs in the bubble near you
• run data courier missions
• fit a SRV as well, and do data scan missions

That should get you at least a few million credits in an hour, which solves your immediate rebuy problem on the Python, in ways that generally won't attract NPCs to try to kill you (or if it does, they'll be ones you can run away from, and if you can't the 50k rebuy loss on a cheap Cobra is affordable).

Then you can start doing whatever you needed the Python for.

I'd first advise never to change shp until you have the rebuy for it.

Then, load it with cargo racks and go to one of those extraction systems offering gold and palladium delivery missions ranging from 4 to 9 millions each for 120-180 tons (you'll need to rank up to allied first). Bonus if you use a system pair that creates those missions all for the same destination so you can take more than on at a a time and maximize profits.

I'll even give you 1 example for free: Taygeta system in the Pleiades, all delivery missions go to the same destination station one jump away. Both the source and destination are large stations, so after a short while you'll be able to upgrade to a large ship and make even more money faster, taking 5 missions at a time, making around 33 million per one jump roundtrip.

Sothis works too for a Python, all the missions from the extraction outpost in Sothis have Ceos as destination (destination stations may vary though).

Always accept all missions available which pay more than 4 million, even if you don't have cargo space for all of them, that way you'll make sure there are always missions ready to go for when you return for another load. Just make sure you stop accepting more missions when it's nearing the time to stop playing.

Don't forget you must rank up to allied before the best missions become available. And you'll be interdicted. A lot. So practice that interdiction minigame.

Another option, not so profitable but only requires a tiny ship equipped with nothing but the default data link scanner: go into a system where all the planetary base scans have the same destination system one jump away. There's lots of those in the Pleiades and most especially in the Witch head nebula. Accept all base scan missions you find, they range from 1.5 million to around 3 million a pop. Then jump to the destination system and scan all of them and return for your paycheck. You'll only need a sidewinder or eagle for this, don't even need an SRV as the ship data link scanner can be used for it. You'll become wanted, but it's the Witch head nebula, who cares?..

These are all good ideas,
But it seems like what you end up doing is replacing one well paying short grind, with another

They stop rushing from meta ship to meta ship while blindly following farming guides on YT, and instead try to find pleasure in flying whatever ship they can actually afford to buy, upgrade and insure. And doing that while enjoying the game and learning stuff.

What a stupid idea, I know.

Yes, this is generally my ethos in the game, I used to exclusively play exploration, and that mindset is the only way to play that mode

The issue for me is the content per hour rate starts to drop down to a drip, once you get to the end game content.

You know have the knowledge of the game and want to try unique builds, crazy things - and that all requires credits.

I want to build the fastest corvette possible, because I think it will be fun, and might even be good (more sheild, daka, and speed than the gunship, what's not to love)

But after a quick run to upgrade the fsd (only to lvl 4 because I'm out of arsenic) and some basic upgrades, I did 2 assassination missions and had to say goodbye to my ship, swapping it out for the 'mewing moggy' and jumping to my mining ship near a double painite hotpot.

Now normally I'd be mining for 3/4 hours all told, to get my credit balance back to healthy, and jumping back into my corvette

Now I'm looking at probably 12-15 hours minimum to achieve the same

And this is hours that are added to the existing grind

I'm probably going to respect the t10 for exploration and just go back out into the black - even this will now require several hours of grind

I had planned to go back into the black in a jumpaconda once I'd finished getting and building my corvette, but the amount of grind now involved just puts me right off

 

[Nathan84]

@theBreadSultan

Well, I've played a bunch of F2P tank games for a handful of years so I think it changed my vision of what is "a grind", to be honest.
In short, the idea that it would take 6 months, or a year, to get every ship and upgrade them in ED absolutely doesn't shock me (I mean without reselling ships and eventually their modules), and that's unlike a vast majority of players I guess.

And tbh, ED is only grindy if people make it grindy, there's nothing that forces you to get endgame ships asap.
The only thing I actually find annoying is material gathering, especially data, but maybe that's because I'm basically engineering everything (combined with not every high grade mats being available as mission rewards)

I'm probably going to respect the t10 for exploration and just go back out into the black - even this will now require several hours of grind

You're absolutely insane and I mean that as a compliment

 

[Rat Catcher]

Don't bother trying to hold onto things in your ship, it's not worth the risk, and the time wasted by having to deal with multiple interdictions

The people who are talking about holding onto commodities and just waiting till there is a better price are billionaires with fleet carriers


Fdev have basically asked bezos, gates, and bloomberg how the economy should be reformed to make their money gains feel more meaningful

Would you like some more ?

It is odd that each of us here, who actually play the game, all started out in a freewinder / freegle with a handful of credits... Most playing before 3.3 boosted earnings across the board would have had slow progression to their new ships at a rate that would horrify a new player, but, even odder, they had fun doing so. (most anyway - there are always some who could be given everything free and would still complain about poor value)

Take a look at the multitude of ways credits can be accumulated by not mining... Particularly if one has spent a tiny amount of time getting allied with local factions

 

[Rat Catcher]

The point about the tick is valid though, and I hope that's not how it works.

It probably is...

... but a little time spent looking around the less fashionable systems may pay well for the effort. (emphasis on may as others may be doing exactly the same)

 

[Brrokk]

I'd first advise never to change shp until you have the rebuy for it.

Then, load it with cargo racks and go to one of those extraction systems offering gold and palladium delivery missions ranging from 4 to 9 millions each for 120-180 tons (you'll need to rank up to allied first). Bonus if you use a system pair that creates those missions all for the same destination so you can take more than on at a a time and maximize profits.

I'll even give you 1 example for free: Taygeta system in the Pleiades, all delivery missions go to the same destination station one jump away. Both the source and destination are large stations, so after a short while you'll be able to upgrade to a large ship and make even more money faster, taking 5 missions at a time, making around 33 million per one jump roundtrip.

Sothis works too for a Python, all the missions from the extraction outpost in Sothis have Ceos as destination (destination stations may vary though).

Always accept all missions available which pay more than 4 million, even if you don't have cargo space for all of them, that way you'll make sure there are always missions ready to go for when you return for another load. Just make sure you stop accepting more missions when it's nearing the time to stop playing.

Don't forget you must rank up to allied before the best missions become available. And you'll be interdicted. A lot. So practice that interdiction minigame.

Another option, not so profitable but only requires a tiny ship equipped with nothing but the default data link scanner: go into a system where all the planetary base scans have the same destination system one jump away. There's lots of those in the Pleiades and most especially in the Witch head nebula. Accept all base scan missions you find, they range from 1.5 million to around 3 million a pop. Then jump to the destination system and scan all of them and return for your paycheck. You'll only need a sidewinder or eagle for this, don't even need an SRV as the ship data link scanner can be used for it. You'll become wanted, but it's the Witch head nebula, who cares?..

Noooo, don't tell about Taygeta, it's my favourite. Oh well, there goes the neighbourhood.

 

[Alone Wulff]

Now imagine this: the market is selling the same fish in China. The market opens there 8am. It's the middle of the night for you. You're sleeping, like a normal human being. When you wake up and go to the market 8am in the US, fish is gone. This is what OP is really complaining.

Will you change your entire life-behavior and become a night person? I think it's too much of a stretch.

But that's how it already works in real life. US fishermen don't travel across the world to sell their fish at the highest price possible. They sell it at the highest price possible within a distance that, when taking time and expenses into account, is still profitable.

I know what the OP is complaining about... I just don't agree that there is an issue. Not until we actually see results of changes, which are not even yet finalised.

 

[Hullreaver]

Regarging the new comodity system it looks like, the demand for a commodity (i.e. Painite) of a station will be replenished once a day (with the tick) and will be lowered continiously by the players selling to the station. When the demand reaches 0 it will stay at 0 until the next tick.

Just a brief glance at Inara for painite reveals numerous stations with significant demand at prices over $250,000/ton. What is the problem? Not high enough?

I was encouraged by the changes. I was frustrated when selling painite before. I would take a load to the station and the demand was 1,000, I sell 250 and it drops to 750. Get another load and demand is back to 1,000? That is what was weird. Demand recovered instantaneously, which is completely wrong. If there was a single station buying an item, I could maybe see the point, but I really do not see the issue and I like the changes. Maybe now one material will no longer dominate.

 

[Vetinari]

ou'll become wanted, but it's the Witch head nebula, who cares?..

But thats outrageous! The Alliance will care, a bit, until you pay it off, but thats not the point. Go and poo on Aislings lawn or somewhere not the Alliance!

In short, the idea that it would take 6 months, or a year, to get every ship and upgrade them in ED absolutely doesn't shock me (I mean without reselling ships and eventually their modules), and that's unlike a vast majority of players I guess.

Me too, but Im not trying to finish the game somehow, Im happy just playing it mostly.

 

[Afterglow]

Making 300mil credits an hour from one mineral is going to get nerfed to death though. That is what breaks the economy, not the other way around.

There is another thread here somewhere.. where a CMDR made a decent little profit moving gold, way more realistic

What economy? Players have ZERO control over the economy other than buying and selling to npc’s at a station f f s ...
“Oh no!! Eeryone is flying nice ships that back in MY day we had to grind for 6 months to be able to afford!”

 

[theBreadSultan]

Ah yes, good ol' world of spanks.
I'm a veteran of that game (have a 3 stripe chafee, and tier 10 tank)

And yea, that game is definitely a grind, but it gets away with it because the gameplay was so engaging - added to by the team based nature of the game

Also smashing around the map in a tier 5 ELC (the little tank destroyer that could) was so much fun, especially when you git good and are making top table amounts of kills or learning how to extract salt from t8+ heavy tanks by parking right next to them.

What WOT did well was adding 'mind grind' because you need to know the maps like the back of your hand to really be effective, certainly as a light tanker

Also, key to making the grind viable, was the whole 'free xp' thing and being able to convert xp from one tank to another.

This meant I was able to do most of the grind to get my t10 tank by charging around in my perma-camo'd 3 striped chafee. And I loved the psychological effect you would have on the opfor when they see your barrel stars and go into panic mode - run tiger run!

I don't think ED has the same kind of engaging gameplay - because while WOT was a grind, it didn't feel like it

 

[CMDR Serra]

But thats outrageous! The Alliance will care, a bit, until you pay it off, but thats not the point. Go and poo on Aislings lawn or somewhere not the Alliance!
...

It's OK because you'll generally be doing the mission for another Alliance faction anyway, so net neutral really.

 

[Lyvan Kitaen]

I remember reading that Eve Online has an actual economist on staff. Maybe FDev should look into doing the same and have them help in redesigning the economy instead of just throwing random fixes at it.