... my god this is ridiculous.
This has got to change... take advantage of this before they nerf it.
Is it really going to be 40 million an hour?
- Thread starter CMDR Karrde Sun
- Start date
... my god this is ridiculous.
This has got to change... take advantage of this before they nerf it.
So whats the point? That you can come up with solutions for the problems you fabricate yourself, or that everything sucks?
Placement matchmaking is a myth - they changed it back in.... Season 8 I think.
Placement matches are just normal Sr gains/losses except its hidden for 10 matches because people complained.
Elo hell is not just people being salty. In order to get into plat for example - you have to play like a play, and to do that you need a team that also knows how to play to that higher standard.
One of my mains is Ana, and while I'm no ml7, the difference between people who know how to play with an Ana and those that don't is night and day.
People who understand that Ana provides a healing corridor - I can carry hard
But when they don't - it can be a challenge to get enough heals in, and doing so often requires being out of position
I never said OW matchmaker forces 50/50, but that what it's trying to achieve.
After all if every player has a 50/50 win rate for the last 10 matches, then they have been having very balanced matches
Yeah... sure.. that.
That actually gave me an idea that could work:
I don't give a royal hoot what other people are doing, you're projecting or something, but being able to progress from Sidey to Annie in a week DOES affect my enjoyment of the game because I, apparently unlike you, play games for challenge. If there isn't one, then I'm just not as motivated, and please don't tell me that I don't "have" to use the shortcuts, because I know I don't, and I generally don't do that.
But imagine, for instance, a game where you can "win" by pressing a button or, alternatively, you can do it the hard way and just refuse to press it. Like, say, football, where you have the OPTION to just press a button to score a touchdown or refuse to do so and do it the old fashioned way. Having that choice removes challenge from the game for me, because I know that the only reason the game might still "feel" challenging is that I'm deliberately gimping myself.
I couldn't care less about the players who go for the easy button option, I really only care about my own game.
That's why I loved the old progression. There was no "easy" way, there were a multitude of ways with different challenges, but there was no way to just get an Annie in a week. That was a challenge, and that made it interesting for me.
The only "good" feature about the new meta is that, with all of the exploits and easy ways to riches available, I have no shortage of noobs in Connies just waiting to be fragged all the way to hell in three seconds because they never learned how to fly their ships along the way. Problem is, I don't enjoy that particularly much since it's not my style.
Kindly stop psycho-analyzing me unless I've paid you to be my therapist and you have an actual degree in psychology.
OKTHXBIE.
And Meow.
nothing to do with it.
If I see a Harmless Anaconda I think 'Well Done' and say Hi. Doesnt affect my game at all in any way whatsoever.
If I get blue screened to death coz of FCs it affects my game.
If my SysMap is clogged with FCs it affects my game.
If I start with 1K and my starter mission pays 10K and the next one 50K and the final one 100K its affects my game if I play the game as intended.
If Trading profits are so stupid its impossible to build up slowly it affects my game.
If mining is so valuable why doesnt every NPC do it? Why hasnt the oversupply of Painite affected the market price? It affects my game as it makes no sense.
Who is paying this price for this common resource thats available in every few systems? Why not just have their own fleet, far cheaper than 600K T?
If I do one data mission I get up to 1m? its hard to rank up without earning crazy money (not enough cargo space and full of mats before you ask)
Like I said, there is no opt-out of the crazy effects, so the crazy effects should be opt-in and the standard mode is Hard / Extreme. Opt in is through missions or some other mechanism. You can make the game easier or quicker by choice rather than by force.
And again: My game is not "ruined" (I'm still around, aren't I?) by other people "getting stuff faster than I did". It is, however, effected by the fact that I, me, myself, too am getting stuff faster than I used to, whether I want to or not. I have not once gone for any of the money-making metas, but I STILL have 2.5 billion Cr in the bank. There is literally not a single ship left in the game short of a Space Herpes that I can't just decide to buy on a whim and A-rate without it even making a dent in my balance.
That IS effecting my game.
The thrill of finding that I can suddenly afford a new A-rated module or even buy a different ship is gone. Dead. By the wayside. I can A-rate a 'Vette right now and not even feel it, and I never ever had to make an effort to do it, as a matter of fact, I made a conscious effort after I got back to the game after taking a long break when it was actually challenging, to NOT go after the "easy money" because, to me, that's like entering "godmode" in the console in any other game which just ruins it for me.
But I didn't even have to do that.
I got enough money to buy my first Python after coming back just by running courier missions for an afternoon. I was used to consider getting a million credits for one single run, a hard one at that, an epic payday. Now it just involves one jump from one system to another, and I'll get paid that whether I even bothered to put some research into it or not. 700 Cr for killing a pirate Anaconda, anyone? I remember those days.
THAT effects me and my enjoyment of the game.
I learned how to fly my Cobra back then to within an inch of its life because I was stuck in it for so long, and I enjoyed every minute of it. Every new module I could afford felt like a victory to me. I still have her, five years old, simply because of all of the memories associated with her.
I don't feel the same way about my Python even though I love her because it took me exactly one afternoon to get her after I'd gotten my Asp which, coincidentally, also took me an afternoon to get A-rated after I came back.
It was quite a good rant, well done.
Did you try mining prior to the update? It wasn’t challenging, it just didn’t pay very well.
I don’t particularly think something is challenging just because it takes a long time to get to the end game ship
ps
Don’t try to categorise me into the I win button camp. I have another account that is happily still in a viper III 2 years on. I have managed to enjoy the game without engaging in high payout activities, I’m sorry if that hasn’t been possible for you
The problem they've got is there's a seriously troublesome relationship between mining, bulk trading and missions for any commodity which can be both mined and bought.
To balance trading with mining - because you can buy 800t of cargo in ten seconds with no skill required, but it'd take most miners 4-8 hours to get the same amount depending on practice and which mined good was being obtained - all mined goods need to be very expensive, but expensive to buy and sell, so that they're profitable to mine (or pirate or salvage) but aren't really better than anything else for bulk trade.
But expensive to buy and sell means they need a high Galactic Average price as well, which means missions for them then pay ... well, this much.
Untangling that rather than just moving the problem elsewhere is difficult.
A proper fix would need I think two things (both of which Jmanis has been pointing out for a while now):
1) Less dependence on galactic average for mission rewards (though too little allows old-old-old-Robigo "steal the cargo and sell it back" exploits on the more valuable cargoes) so that missions for Domestic Appliances pay more and missions for Gold pay less.
2) Bulk mining to be proper bulk mining - individual fragments of Bertrandite your refinery converts into 10-20t of ore, a single good asteroid could fill a medium ship with it. Then Bertrandite could still be worth mining at 2-4k/tonne. Bauxite (on the old 300 credits/tonne price) you might scoop up one fragment and that's your T-9 full ... and obviously that would need major changes to how mining works mechanically and visually to avoid awkward questions about how a tiny fragment had 500t of Bauxite in it to start with (and also to avoid serious annoyance on Bauxite-Painite asteroids where after each fragment you need to jettison 499t of Bauxite to let it get the next Painite one).
Well, that's not going to be quick.
Oh, on another, unrelated note, I welcome the change where minerals/metals that previously weren't worth bothering with compared to the meta. Not only does it make sense, logically, but it also means that, much as people cry about the Painite nerf, I don't have to have Osmium and Platinum, for instance, on my ignore list.
Which, in turn, allows me to fill up my hold faster since I'm no longer going for only the one super meta which, again, lowers the amount of time I have to spend mining.
Kudos to FDev for that change. We no longer have Bob knows how many different things we CAN mine for but only one or two that you might even bother with, and I don't have to spend as much time "curating" my ignore list.
Which, in turn, allows me to fill up my hold faster since I'm no longer going for only the one super meta which, again, lowers the amount of time I have to spend mining.
Kudos to FDev for that change. We no longer have Bob knows how many different things we CAN mine for but only one or two that you might even bother with, and I don't have to spend as much time "curating" my ignore list.
CMDR One_Percent, who was the first to reach Triple Elite in the original Elite 1.0 release, was in an Anaconda within a week - if I remember correctly, largely as a byproduct of the neutron-farming he did to get the Exploration Elite part of the goal.
And exploration was at the time the worst paying of the three ranked professions, receiving a buff to double its payouts with the 1.1 release shortly after, which left it still the worst paying but not by quite as much.
It has never been impossible to get an Anaconda in a week - if you knew what you were doing - the difference between then and now is that then we didn't know and now we do: the larger community makes discoveries quicker, shares them more widely, and refines them faster.
Equally, despite earnings being 20x higher now, the cloud of ships spreading outwards from the beginner zone is mainly still Sidewinders and Cobras and similar, looking at the traffic reports. Most of the beginners either don't know or don't care that if they did A, B and C they could have an Anaconda now as well, just as it was in the 1.0 release.
Which update? I dropped out back when collector limpets weren't even a thing. I came back right in the middle of the LTD gold rush.
We have to agree to disagree there then. Because working towards a goal is just about everything that "challenge" is to me. And I'm not sure what the "end game" ship is, unless it's the poxy FC Orange Sidewinder inducing space herpes,
But that's neither here nor there, let's not get bugged down in semantics, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, which is fine. My "end game" is when there is literally nothing left that I can't do, nothing to strive for because I can just do it if I so choose. I've zoomed past all of the intermediary milestones and now the only thing left for me is whether or not to press the "buy" button.
I wouldn't want to categorize you into any sort of camp, I don't know you personally and certainly not well enough to make any definitive statements about who or what you are. I DO enjoy playing the game even though it's laughably easy now compared to what it was, I'm still playing it, I just reject the notion that it being infinitely more easy now doesn't effect me in any way, because it does. And it has nothing to do with it being easier for other players, it has everything to do with it being easier for me. Too easy.
Yes, I can deliberately force myself to only take missions that pay nothing, I can deliberately refuse to buy modules that I could afford, literally, a hundred times over, but that's not a "challenge", is it?
Not to me, it isn't.
And the payouts are higher. At least back then you had to work for it.
Bottom line, for me, is that as long as FDev make it possible to earn enough to pay the rent upkeep on my FC by doing enjoyable things, I'll be happy.
The OP raises a valid point, though, even if it's not necessarily for the right reasons.
Being able to earn Cr50m/hr (other esimates are available) might not help small-pad ship progression, and it might make it slightly more long-winded to buy & outfit a Corvette but, erm, so what?
If FDev have decided that's the way things should be in the ED universe, so be it.
I guess anybody who's lucky enough to have been around for the era of Old Nu-Mining was just that; lucky.
Honestly, I think any issues related to the use of small ships should be considered separately to that of economics (if that's even FDev's motivation here, at all).
Like I've said once or twice (or a hundred time) before, the easiest way to create small-ship content would simply be to outlaw big ships in certain systems.
Set it up so you can jump into a system, or jump your FC into a system, at the primary star, scan the nav-buoy, and it'll give you information about ship restrictions within the system.
Fly further than, say, 20Ls from the Primary in a "banned" ship and you risk being intercepted by System Security ships and gaining fines/bounties.
If you want to be an outlaw, go ahead and do it anyway.
If you want to remain lawful, make sure you're flying an approved ship.
Regarding credits, I think the biggest issue is that FDev have historically created a situation where there's something that is by far THE best way to earn credits, which means people who want credits farm the poop out of that thing... and then wail about how grindy and repetitive the game is.
What FDev need to do (IMO), is develop the whole "system state" thing so it has a meaningful effect on all sorts of things within a system.
You'd need to learn what states make certain activities profitable, and what other conditions make them especially profitable.
That way, becoming an "entrepreneur" can become a proper career in ED and it'd mean anybody who was an entrepreneur would need to be versatile, and thus reduce the wailing about repetition and grind.
It'd also be nice if FDev could develop some kind of RNG factor to simulate temporary profitable trends for certain things within a system.
The OP raises a valid point, though, even if it's not necessarily for the right reasons.
Being able to earn Cr50m/hr (other esimates are available) might not help small-pad ship progression, and it might make it slightly more long-winded to buy & outfit a Corvette but, erm, so what?
If FDev have decided that's the way things should be in the ED universe, so be it.
I guess anybody who's lucky enough to have been around for the era of Old Nu-Mining was just that; lucky.
Honestly, I think any issues related to the use of small ships should be considered separately to that of economics (if that's even FDev's motivation here, at all).
Like I've said once or twice (or a hundred time) before, the easiest way to create small-ship content would simply be to outlaw big ships in certain systems.
Set it up so you can jump into a system, or jump your FC into a system, at the primary star, scan the nav-buoy, and it'll give you information about ship restrictions within the system.
Fly further than, say, 20Ls from the Primary in a "banned" ship and you risk being intercepted by System Security ships and gaining fines/bounties.
If you want to be an outlaw, go ahead and do it anyway.
If you want to remain lawful, make sure you're flying an approved ship.
Regarding credits, I think the biggest issue is that FDev have historically created a situation where there's something that is by far THE best way to earn credits, which means people who want credits farm the poop out of that thing... and then wail about how grindy and repetitive the game is.
What FDev need to do (IMO), is develop the whole "system state" thing so it has a meaningful effect on all sorts of things within a system.
You'd need to learn what states make certain activities profitable, and what other conditions make them especially profitable.
That way, becoming an "entrepreneur" can become a proper career in ED and it'd mean anybody who was an entrepreneur would need to be versatile, and thus reduce the wailing about repetition and grind.
It'd also be nice if FDev could develop some kind of RNG factor to simulate temporary profitable trends for certain things within a system.
Back then it didn't matter because we were all flying the same ships as our gameplay progressed roughly at a similar pace, and there wasn't anything else to do than just progressing through ships.
Withholding stuff from new players and forcing them to play a game a certain way for too long while the rest of the world is having fun with all the goodies doesn't feel like a good idea. Years ago the ships progressed in a slower pace than we did, now its the other way around, so be it. The game as it is has a very steep learning curve, way steeper than just after release. If a new player figures out in 3 days how to get to a Conda and is able to fly it, than he earned it. Who is a vet to say that he should only be able to fly one after two months "because thats how we did it"? These dogma's are plain stupid.