ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing Pt.2

I've been away so these changes are news to me, and very welcome!

While we're on this topic of balancing and whatnot, PLEASE bring back "fail on scan" smuggling and courier missions and long range smuggling missions. Plus buff the pay towards what it used to be; at the very least it should make more than legal cargo hauling.

The old fail-on-scan missions were fun, and I've never understood why they were removed.

If this has been well covered and Frontier has responded and said it's on the docket, then ignore me.
 
IMHO, bounty "farming" should get less of a buff than bounty HUNTING. In other words, just shooting endless waves of pirates in a RES should be less lucrative than accepting pirate assassination missions. Because let's face it, there is very little effort in farming a RES once you have an engineered combat ship (I would argue it takes more effort to mine). At least with assassination missions, there is the effort in hunting down your target, and you don't get endless waves of targets coming in and saying, "Please shoot me!" like you do in a RES.

This is just my opinion, and not one I'm going to lose sleep over if I'm ignored. 🤷
IMO it should be state-based so once a system gets to civil liberty there's fewer good marks, but if you go hunting in a civil unrest or lockdown system the bounties are increased.

Edit: and the BGS effect / state change should take place in the system where you earn the bounty voucher, not where you cash it in. That'd solve a lot of the imbalance of bounties in the BGS right there.
 
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Greetings Commanders,

Last week we posted this announcement about our plans for game balancing. Make sure to give it a read for information on the changes that were implemented last week and an overview of our plans.

A lot has happened in the short amount of time since then. We've collected and analysed your feedback and are happy to confirm that Anti-Xeno combat and Powerplay (the most frequent topics in your replies) will be part of our long term plans as well as many other aspects of Elite Dangerous that were mentioned. On Monday we rolled out the Mining and Trade changes described in the post and made some adjustments which we'll continue to examine and tweak as necessary. For now, they seem to have had the expected impact but your continued feedback is welcome.

What the hell guys? "Balancing" doesn't just mean "Money" you know. People played this game back when missions only gave maybe a million in rewards max, and they enjoyed it because it was fun and challenging. Back when getting a Big-3 ship was an accomplishment, not a weekend grind. Back when you WANTED a Big-3 ship because they improved the game, not because it was a participation trophy. We don't want >income< balanced. We want the freaking GAME balanced! Remove idiotic "engineering" that turns a 1,000mj shield into a 12,000mj shield! Remove idiotic "lasers" that somehow restore more shield energy then any other weapon can deplete. Do something to make small ships actually useful instead of just a stepping stone to larger ships that you'll be able to afford after one mission. You know, BALANCE THE GAME!.
 
Greetings Commanders,

Last week we posted this announcement about our plans for game balancing. Make sure to give it a read for information on the changes that were implemented last week and an overview of our plans.

A lot has happened in the short amount of time since then. We've collected and analysed your feedback and are happy to confirm that Anti-Xeno combat and Powerplay (the most frequent topics in your replies) will be part of our long term plans as well as many other aspects of Elite Dangerous that were mentioned. On Monday we rolled out the Mining and Trade changes described in the post and made some adjustments which we'll continue to examine and tweak as necessary. For now, they seem to have had the expected impact but your continued feedback is welcome.

This past week we've been discussing and preparing the combat changes described in our previous post. The following changes can be expected later today alongside a GalNet article:

Bounties
Bounties from NPCs will see significant increases from approximately four times as much for the highest paying ones to ten times as much for the lower paying ones. Please note that the number of credits shown immediately in your HUD when you destroy a criminal ship won't display the newly increased amounts. This will need to wait until we're certain of the final numbers. Accurate bounty figures can be found in the Transactions tab in your left panel.

Solo Combat Missions
We're also increasing the payouts for Massacre and Assassination missions. Several economic factors affect the pay offered, but we expect these to grant around twice as many credits as before. For now, we've opted not to change Wing Massacre Missions following reports of consistently high payouts from these but we remain open to feedback.

For both Bounties and Solo Combat Missions, the changes will be carefully examined throughout the following days and weeks to review their effects and allows time for feedback.

Next Steps
Next, we'd like to carry out plans to improve the pay from other elements of Combat, including Combat Bonds and Anti-Xeno combat. More information on these can be expected soon in a post similar to this one. The changes are likely to happen before the end of this year and are likely to be the final ones before 2021 where we'll continue by moving onto other areas of gameplay.

Thanks as always for your support and feedback!

o7
So, FDEV... Will you also be increasing the XP gained from bounty hunting and killing NPCs accordingly? Currently the grind to Elite Combat is hugely disproportionate compared to the route to Trade and Exploration Elite.
The grind to Combat Elite is not simply a matter of 'getting credits' like trade elite, something easily achieved through mining the most valuable resources, nor is it as easy as simply "making a long exploration to Sag A" and back again to get Elite XP.

Combat Elite is the biggest grind...
 
We're discussing player bounties internally and considering an increase to the current cap on those. This needs to be decided carefully to avoid exploitation.

I spent some time thinking about that one; not because I participate, but because the current implementation sounds silly. My idea for avoiding people exploiting it is as follows:
  • Players can only get player collectable bounties for killing players. That means that an easily obtained billion credit fine for smuggling (or similar) cannot be used to quickly gain a bounty value.
  • Bounty gained is calculated as follows: Total rebuy cost of target's ship + total rebuy cost perpetrators' ship at the time of death + arbitrary cost (this could vary from system to system with lowest in low security systems).
  • On the rebuy screen the perpetrator must pay as much as possible of their bounties, even if they must sell ships, parts and/or fleet carriers (including anything in storage) to pay off at least 50% of their bounties total value. If you've incurred a billion credit bounty and someone kills you in a relevant system, you need to pay off at least 500,000,000 credits. This also applies if you've been killed by NPCs.
  • If this is not possible, the perpetrator is charged however much they can afford to leave them with 1,000 credits and a free Sidewinder.
  • Bounties only pay out when the perpetrator goes past their rebuy screen. The payout is split between the wing members of the killer, and who were in the instance where the perpetrator was killed.
  • Bounty payout to players is less than the "fine" paid by the perpetrator. 50 to 75% for example. Call the rest processing fees, payment for rescue vehicles, restitution etc.
This makes being a PvP ganker far more dangerous, because once you've done it enough, you're faced with having to start over entirely (including engineering) if things go bad. I'm not above suggesting that materials are part of the stuff that may/must be sold off to cover the bounty to make things even more dangerous, just make sure it has reasonable value.

As an example - Vectron has a combined bounty of 2.3 billion credits (my highest fine I think). I get together with a friend I want to boost and have them kill me in my Sidewinder.

At the rebuy screen I remember I only have 200 million credits in cash, and I need to pay off 50% (1.15 billion credits). I now have to sell off ships and parts in storage to cover this. I can't selectively sell individual parts in a stored ship - I can only sell the entire ship. I choose to sell off as many unmodified ships and parts as possible, and I'm now left with having to pay 125 million credits, and the least valuable modified ship in my stored fleet that I'm willing to sell off is 300 million credits. I sell that and have the option of keeping the remaining 175 million credits in cash or use that to pay off more of my bounty. I choose to pay another 75 million and keep 100 million credits in cash. All in all I've paid off 1.25 billion credits of my 2.3 billion credit bounty. My remaining bounty is now 1.05 billion credits.

My friend is given a voucher for 50% of the 1.25 billion credits I paid, which is 612.5 million credits. All in all the value of the involved players has been reduced by 612.5 million credits, despite my friend getting 612.5 million credits in bounty vouchers. This can still be used by very rich players to give their friends a massive credit boost, but since there's a significant loss in combined value of the players, I do not think this counts as an exploit.

It is slightly convoluted in terms of getting payouts, but it gets rid of a lot of weird complications that the current system in my opinion, and it makes dying with active bounties quite dangerous and costly. Make it impossible to pay off these bounties without going through the rebuy screen, and things get even more dangerous.

A slight alternative is having individual bounties for each kill, with each of them having to be paid off in full until 50% of their total bounty value at death has been fulfilled. This is more dangerous, when you're suddenly staring at having to pay off a couple of billion credit bounties/fines after having paid off a bunch of cheap ones.

Edit: I wasn't done. Not sure why it posted.
 
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Thanks to the developers for all the care they give to player feedback! Much appreciated.

Now, that being said, we definitely need some more expensive ships to be added to the game to make use of the piles of money that we're all going to have...
 
Greetings Commanders,

Last week we posted this announcement about our plans for game balancing. Make sure to give it a read for information on the changes that were implemented last week and an overview of our plans.

A lot has happened in the short amount of time since then. We've collected and analysed your feedback and are happy to confirm that Anti-Xeno combat and Powerplay (the most frequent topics in your replies) will be part of our long term plans as well as many other aspects of Elite Dangerous that were mentioned. On Monday we rolled out the Mining and Trade changes described in the post and made some adjustments which we'll continue to examine and tweak as necessary. For now, they seem to have had the expected impact but your continued feedback is welcome.

This past week we've been discussing and preparing the combat changes described in our previous post. The following changes can be expected later today alongside a GalNet article:

Bounties
Bounties from NPCs will see significant increases from approximately four times as much for the highest paying ones to ten times as much for the lower paying ones. Please note that the number of credits shown immediately in your HUD when you destroy a criminal ship won't display the newly increased amounts. This will need to wait until we're certain of the final numbers. Accurate bounty figures can be found in the Transactions tab in your left panel.

Solo Combat Missions
We're also increasing the payouts for Massacre and Assassination missions. Several economic factors affect the pay offered, but we expect these to grant around twice as many credits as before. For now, we've opted not to change Wing Massacre Missions following reports of consistently high payouts from these but we remain open to feedback.

For both Bounties and Solo Combat Missions, the changes will be carefully examined throughout the following days and weeks to review their effects and allows time for feedback.

Next Steps
Next, we'd like to carry out plans to improve the pay from other elements of Combat, including Combat Bonds and Anti-Xeno combat. More information on these can be expected soon in a post similar to this one. The changes are likely to happen before the end of this year and are likely to be the final ones before 2021 where we'll continue by moving onto other areas of gameplay.

Thanks as always for your support and feedback!

o7
Flimley approves of these actions. \o/
everything is going to be ok now Cmdr Bruce is onboard.
Flimley
 
Can you please explain what the threat of exploitation here really is? As the credits earned by the hunter will come from the bank account of the criminal player it is a transfer.
This is a really good idea. I know a few commanders with big bounties and small credit balances. The risk of being sent back to a stock sidey and losing engineered ships and modules to pay for a bounty would make playing their game a bit rislier.
 
Solo Combat Missions
We're also increasing the payouts for Massacre and Assassination missions. Several economic factors affect the pay offered, but we expect these to grant around twice as many credits as before. For now, we've opted not to change Wing Massacre Missions following reports of consistently high payouts from these but we remain open to feedback.
That is completely the wrong way. The main trouble with solo Massacre missions is not the payout. It's the fact that they require more kills than Wing massacres.
 
On the rebuy screen the perpetrator must pay as much as possible of their bounties, even if they must sell ships, parts and/or fleet carriers (including anything in storage) to pay off at least 50% of their bounties. If you've incurred a billion credit bounty and someone kills you in a relevant system, you need to pay off at least 500,000,000 credits.
How can you enforce that?
One can ALWAYS opt to get the freewinder.

Say I rack up said billion bounty, flying a conda.
Now I let myself get killed by a new player to "give" him the money, then I pick a freewinder, and ask my carrier to come and pick me up.
I won't miss the money for the conda, since I'm the one "giving the money away".

IIRC player bounties are capped at 2m or so to avoid an exploit like this already.
 
We've collected and analysed your feedback and are happy to confirm that Anti-Xeno combat and Powerplay (the most frequent topics in your replies) will be part of our long term plans as well as many other aspects of Elite Dangerous that were mentioned.

Thank you. I'm glad that you are making plans about the "other aspects of Elite Dangerous that were mentioned". It would be good to know which aspects remain in consideration and which ones have been put aside or were ruled out.
 
So, FDEV... Will you also be increasing the XP gained from bounty hunting and killing NPCs accordingly? Currently the grind to Elite Combat is hugely disproportionate compared to the route to Trade and Exploration Elite.
The grind to Combat Elite is not simply a matter of 'getting credits' like trade elite, something easily achieved through mining the most valuable resources, nor is it as easy as simply "making a long exploration to Sag A" and back again to get Elite XP.

Combat Elite is the biggest grind...

IMO the rest should be made harder. Elite should mean something, and Trade/Exploration are too easy.
 
Pay out the full bounty, but not to exceed the amount paid by the one who had the bounty. Do not allow the hunters to make more than the one with the bounty pays. If I had a bounty of 100M and had to pay 100M at the rebuy screen, then the wing splits the 100M.
What I'm describing is a BGS exploit, used because PVP bounties influence BGS faction inf. Imagine if PVP bounties we're payed in billions...
 
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