What is everyones ideal credits per hour rate?
- Thread starter CMDR Karrde Sun
- Start date
Lemme guess you'r doing combat ?..
Plz think about theses numbers , what is the point of mining ??
...
...
Credit.
Dont fool people with the fake risk that combat have.
Combat is exiting (or at least AX) and thrilling . It's the reward.
Make the combat the most rewarding activity and you'll soon have people saying " why do i have to fight to make credit , i hate battling and this game is so unbalanced"
Imo the whole point of this balancing is NOT to make any activity UNrewarding. Because combat was , before really unrewarding.
But it's my opinion after all , not fdev one.
AX is challenge , but thye maybe could up reward a little ( like with some AX mission or AX CZ ) . Because if AX become rewarding , you'll soon find "OS SHARD SQUAD 1B/H credit farm".
AX is attractive by nature , like exploration and somehow combat. Imo trade is more RP , and kinda "good" side. mining is for credit addict. Leave them that .
Nobody forced you to mine. Difference was to hight OK , now it's .... well XD it's nearly broken as a gameplay loop so no comment.
(mining mission seems pretty good now tbh , may have to teste that.)
Actually no you can get the same effect much cheaper by reducing the size of the fuel tank, note reducing it to less than 3 jumps could be risky.
Because they are only available to individuals and a squadron no matter what its size isn't an individual.
When exploring I don't like having anything other than a full tank. Sometimes I like to bring a spare fuel tank if I can.
In the bubble I always swap out the scoop for a tank
The more important thing for me than the amount is that all the professions are balanced so one or two professions are not hugely better than another at making money than all the others. Oh look, I'm in good company:
Nope. I'm a miner and a trader at times, casual combat pilot and rare AX fighter with some odd passenger shipper in between. Mostly miner though.
Actually, AX is not rewarding at all in terms of credits, which is the topic here.
If you want to AX, you need to grind your behind off to get a viable ship. And even then, what do you get? 2m for a cyclops? 15 for a Hydra, which takes you a good hour to solo. Considering the risk of a rebuy, you need to fight quite a while to make that rebuy back.
I based my numbers on skill/risk/reward.
More risk, more reward.
I am aware that by suggesting that, I'm "suggesting" a limit on mining income. very well aware of that. Doesn't mean I want "my" favourite activity boosted to 1b/h.
Like the current mining adjustment as they are tbh.
It all boils down to credits per hour as that seems to be the method of judgement for what gets the nerf hammer or not. I don't want a scenario where changes get implemented by not taking into account credits per hour, only for it to make way more credits per hour, through optimisation, than originally intended and it gets hit with the nerf hammer.I've never understood this obsession with credits per hour! I've never based my game time on how many credits I can make in an hour and never will! Apart from anything else, it sounds too much like work to me, something I've not done for over 6.5 years in RL since I retired. A lot of my game play pays absolutely nothing except to give me a good feeling about helping someone.Not saying I never do make credits - one of my alts is currently taking part in one of the trade CGs, but even then it's more about helping the CG to succeed and the rewards are just a nice addition.
The whole ssd mining boom at the start of the fleet carrier release was a prime example of what happens if changes are not tested to their absolute, which involve calculating a rough cr/h. If the devs did a speedrun with those ssd changes, they would have realised that the 400-500m cr/h (even without the egg. With the egg I was getting close to 800-900m cr/h) was higher than intended, and they could have tweaked it there and then.
Also cr/h is the best way in comparing money making across professions and, I hope, is the measurement the devs are basing this whole rebalance on.
These values are far too low, when thinking about fleet carriers imo.
I prepared some huge(yes more than that XD) text but tbh i'm tired, i'v explained it many times.
Mining is atm dead due to demand , i'm not fine with that , the end.
If you find that credit should reward every activity equaly , or based on "risk" , i think you'r mistaking, there is no real risk in videogame , sometime difficulty , but you overcome that with knowledge or talent / both. Everything is related to time. In the end a super experimented pilot with full gear take no risk killing his 7777 elite pirate conda.
Some unexperimented miner could lose many hours to find the rock he want, losing time is the risk in a video game.
When you die , what do you lose ? time and credit . What are credit ? time you invested in the game.
There is no such thing as risk quantifier . at least not between different job.
You can also note that many game have "chill" activity like farming materials that end up paying way more than every others aspec of the game.
Nearly every activities in elite have reward beside credit. Nearly all of theses activities have an objectiv that is not credit. Justice(RP) , adrenaline , material, reputation , curiosity , exploration , challenge, fame ect.
Mining (as we know it) and bulk trading are focused on one thing and one thing ONLY : credit making.
And it is imo totaly logical.
Making every activity credit reward equal is just dumb. Balance things so people can progress throught the game no matter what there style is (my) definition of balance. But if some want "dumb" activity to progress faster let them a way. they will always find a way and they will always "grind" it. How faster it is it's FDev choice.
Nerf on mining MECH is one of the worst thing they did imo, PWA broken SSD broken , core mining "unstable" , and finally demand totaly unadapted to the number of player.
I took your example before because it seems to reflect alot of people opinion.
I was for credit up on activities , i was for mining nerf overall , i'm not for mining becoming a pain to do.
Again these are MY opinion , and reflexion i just hope to open people eyes on how tricky it can be. It's more than just "everything should be totaly equal"
o7
I didn't read through all of the pages. But I saw the topic. For me, it really doesn't matter, sometimes the most fun I have actually costs me money haha.
Honestly, I sort of roll my eyes when I see posts detailing credits per hour. One I don't care, and two they sometimes fail to take in to account costs or incidental expenditures. It's like how my ex-wife would always talk about how much money her business made, without factoring in the costs at all. Not a good day when I had a look at the books.
Honestly, I sort of roll my eyes when I see posts detailing credits per hour. One I don't care, and two they sometimes fail to take in to account costs or incidental expenditures. It's like how my ex-wife would always talk about how much money her business made, without factoring in the costs at all. Not a good day when I had a look at the books.
50 million per hour would be fine. Imo you don't want it to be too high for veteran CMDRs or ppl who play Elite all the time, but you also don't want it to be too low because more casual players may not feel like they are getting anywhere compared to the diehards. Yes... "you do the time, you get the shiny dime". I get that, but it's a video game. Too many video games these days are too demanding of our time, not to mention our money.
Even if i'm concerned , i kinda like the spirit
fly safe o7 cmdr.
Yeah that's fascinating.
After skimming through the recent frontier livestream, it seems i was wrong a second time. Seems pretty much all they were shooting for is "risk vs reward". Sadly just the dumb knee jerk response to a few youtube videos and the mental programming they achieved.
I mistakenly heard the word "reduction" when it came to mining as a reduction in income levels.. when in truth it was only a re-balancing of mining commodity values while maintaining the same earnings.
Well either way, i guess its up to frontier to logically merge the goals "risk vs reward" and "every profession should be equal", as they don't ask for the same things.
They're probably going to have to sneak out with "its okay for any profession to earn anything big or small as long as combat is the meta". That's what the videos are pretty much asking for.
Also.. just in case.. all the pied piers aren't playing the game right now. Check out their channels. Frontier????
Carriers are/were meant to be expensive. Current upkeep of 5m/week is really cheap compared to what was in the beta of 150m/week.
at 50m per hour of chilled mining, you can get one after 100 hours. Combat pilots who might even cop a rebuy might get one quicker.
I think rewards should be based on risk and skill. Mining doesn't require much skill, nor does it carry any risk, apart from NPC pirates who show up at the start and then leave. Or players for those playing in Open.
That's why an assassination mission vs a fully engineered Vette should pay more than blasting away a pirate lord flying a stock Eagle.
You got the risk/loss part very right. If I get killed in my cutter, I lose rewards from activities in game, which have been awarded to me based on me spending time doing certain game loops.
So you are saying mining carries the same risk as fighting a thargoid cyclops or fetching 1500t of a commodity to a station from another one?
Because that's the part where I say: Risk is a quantifiable factor between different jobs, and should reflect on the reward.
Exploring caries no risk, unless you want to use Neutron highways, but that's a personal choice. Scanning and mapping planets is not risky.
Mining caries a minor risk
Trading caries a minor risk
Smuggling caries a minor to moderate risk
Combat caries a moderate risk
AX combat caries a high risk
This is just my opinion.
I can have a crack at that. The risk with mining and all the other professions is before you know what you're doing, you're going to be earning absolutely nothing until you get skilled in the craft. This is the same as getting blown up by a cyclops before you're outfitted and know the fights. While it is definitely shallow to think of activities in terms of credits, the risk of wasting your time and the risk of getting blown up follows the same progression.
All activities require knowledge to advance in elite (think about from a new players perspective).
If you want to claim its all about the experience, well that applies to combat too.
Its really easy to just go combat has explosions its more risky, but i can't but dread that is a really hollow solution.. the problem is credits per hour. Combat being unbalanced is a symptom. If some sense of "reward balance" instead was targeted, every profession would be covered, not just one that involves explosions that influencers have read is a keen topic for their communities.
Think about it, if frontier maintained balance and game integrity, would combat have fallen out of the mix so badly? That's a bigger problem though which is depressing to think about. What frontier really think and use credits for.
Last edited:
Tough question, as far as I'm concerned, since it really depends entirely on what your "goal" is in the game, as in "when have I 'beat' the game/'won' the game/done all that I can in the game".
As such, it's highly subjective, as is anything and everything I write in the following. All of it works for me, but that doesn't make it any more or less "valid" (how I hate that word) than anybody else's opinion.
I play this game, indeed any game, to have fun and to feel that I'm "working" for something. However, my idea of that "something" I'm working for is most likely very different from anybody else's, and that's fine. I get the feeling, and I might be wrong, that the current, contemporary idea of what constitutes a goal in any game is "get to the end game as quick as possible. It isn't for me.
But, with that in mind, what are MY "goals?". Quite simple: to get to the "next ship." Or to get to the "next upgrade."
If my goal was "to get to the point where I can own an Anaconda", my ideal credits/hour would be much higher, because getting to that would be all that I cared about. Or it could be "owning an Fleet Carrier", it really doesn't matter, except the "ideal" Cr/hr goes up the more expensive my "goal" is.
I started back in the beta (oh dear, here goes another "back in MY day" post, but bear with me, it's relevant), and my goal was, and remains, as I said, to get to the point where I can buy a better ship. I couldn't care less about getting myself an Annie back then, except to the point where it would be awesome, but it was way out there, in the future. I didn't need it. I just wanted to upgrade the crappy modules on my Freewinder and then, when I'd done that, I wanted an Eagle. Then I wanted a Viper. Then I wanted an Adder. Then I wanted a Cobra. That was my focus. It was hard and it took a long time, but every single time I'd scrimped and scraped to get a better module or a better ship, it felt like a victory and it made me happy. I didn't care a whit about calculating how long it would take me to get to the vaunted Annie, I just cared about getting to the next step up the ladder.
It took me a long time to get into that shiny new Cobra Mk. III, actually not so shiny when I could first buy it, because I didn't have enough to kit her out with anything beyond the crappy stock modules, but, as with all of the previous ships, just hopping into her and taking her for the first ride was the biggest thrill of all.
Fast forward. I took a long break from the game, not because I stopped enjoying it but because RL and other games caught my fancy and then I came back. And suddenly realized that the Asp that would have been my next project was but a few hours of play away. And then, a mere tens of hours after that, I'd not only fully A-rated and engineered my Asp, I had more than enough money to get the Python, something that used to be a long term project. And now I can buy any ship in the game except for an FC without even worrying about my credit balance. I can go straight from owning a Python to buying literally ANY ship in the game and A-rating and G5 engineering it, almost instantly.
It took me months, almost a year, to get me into that Cobra, and I enjoyed every second of it because I got to learn how to fly every single one of the ships along the way, enjoyed every little upgrade, best time in the game for me. And then I got back after the hiatus and got to "money is not an issue" in less than two months. I threw out a quarter billion to transfer my Krait from the Bubble to Colonia because hey, whatever.
That hasn't improved my enjoyment of the game. I can't say it's significantly reduced it either, I'm still here, aren't I?
But I just don't care as much anymore. What's my "ideal" Cr/hr rate?
I'd be fine with pretty much what it was, but that's only because I intend to keep playing it for as long as it takes. I don't have an urge to "finish" the game, as a matter of fact I'd rather not finish it ever, but I completely understand people who measure their success by how quickly they can get to the "end." I don't agree with that approach, I like to get as much out of a game as possible, but I understand it.
So if the metric is "how fast can I get an FC?", then it's completely different from "how fast can I get the next step up the ladder."
And that's subjective. There is no right or wrong answer to that, I just know what works for me.
Enough rambling, I'll see myself out.
As such, it's highly subjective, as is anything and everything I write in the following. All of it works for me, but that doesn't make it any more or less "valid" (how I hate that word) than anybody else's opinion.
I play this game, indeed any game, to have fun and to feel that I'm "working" for something. However, my idea of that "something" I'm working for is most likely very different from anybody else's, and that's fine. I get the feeling, and I might be wrong, that the current, contemporary idea of what constitutes a goal in any game is "get to the end game as quick as possible. It isn't for me.
But, with that in mind, what are MY "goals?". Quite simple: to get to the "next ship." Or to get to the "next upgrade."
If my goal was "to get to the point where I can own an Anaconda", my ideal credits/hour would be much higher, because getting to that would be all that I cared about. Or it could be "owning an Fleet Carrier", it really doesn't matter, except the "ideal" Cr/hr goes up the more expensive my "goal" is.
I started back in the beta (oh dear, here goes another "back in MY day" post
, but bear with me, it's relevant), and my goal was, and remains, as I said, to get to the point where I can buy a better ship. I couldn't care less about getting myself an Annie back then, except to the point where it would be awesome, but it was way out there, in the future. I didn't need it. I just wanted to upgrade the crappy modules on my Freewinder and then, when I'd done that, I wanted an Eagle. Then I wanted a Viper. Then I wanted an Adder. Then I wanted a Cobra. That was my focus. It was hard and it took a long time, but every single time I'd scrimped and scraped to get a better module or a better ship, it felt like a victory and it made me happy. I didn't care a whit about calculating how long it would take me to get to the vaunted Annie, I just cared about getting to the next step up the ladder.It took me a long time to get into that shiny new Cobra Mk. III, actually not so shiny when I could first buy it, because I didn't have enough to kit her out with anything beyond the crappy stock modules, but, as with all of the previous ships, just hopping into her and taking her for the first ride was the biggest thrill of all.
Fast forward. I took a long break from the game, not because I stopped enjoying it but because RL and other games caught my fancy and then I came back. And suddenly realized that the Asp that would have been my next project was but a few hours of play away. And then, a mere tens of hours after that, I'd not only fully A-rated and engineered my Asp, I had more than enough money to get the Python, something that used to be a long term project. And now I can buy any ship in the game except for an FC without even worrying about my credit balance. I can go straight from owning a Python to buying literally ANY ship in the game and A-rating and G5 engineering it, almost instantly.
It took me months, almost a year, to get me into that Cobra, and I enjoyed every second of it because I got to learn how to fly every single one of the ships along the way, enjoyed every little upgrade, best time in the game for me. And then I got back after the hiatus and got to "money is not an issue" in less than two months. I threw out a quarter billion to transfer my Krait from the Bubble to Colonia because hey, whatever.
That hasn't improved my enjoyment of the game. I can't say it's significantly reduced it either, I'm still here, aren't I?
But I just don't care as much anymore. What's my "ideal" Cr/hr rate?
I'd be fine with pretty much what it was, but that's only because I intend to keep playing it for as long as it takes. I don't have an urge to "finish" the game, as a matter of fact I'd rather not finish it ever, but I completely understand people who measure their success by how quickly they can get to the "end." I don't agree with that approach, I like to get as much out of a game as possible, but I understand it.
So if the metric is "how fast can I get an FC?", then it's completely different from "how fast can I get the next step up the ladder."
And that's subjective. There is no right or wrong answer to that, I just know what works for me.
Enough rambling, I'll see myself out.
enjoyed your long post very much.
two fond memories:
- i bought my first AspEs hull for a discount after participating at an exploration CG. it sat in storage quite some time as i had no CR to outfit it. some time later, already flying the AspE rare trading, i had the money to fit a class 5A shield. decided to go for it. got interdicted by a player pirate, who wanted me to drop my rares. i decided not to this time, and the 5A shield hold the railgun volley. that felt like having done everything right.
- when i got my first python, i waited until i could finance C-class thrusters for it. did the all rares tour to finance its outfitting. but yes - back then c-class modules played a role...
(I'm also still here, still knowing that this kind of game isn't possible anymore)