The fundamental problem with making Powerplay Open-Only.

[Chrystoph]

I support OOBGS a lot more, and as I said anything that alters the galaxy. Most people I know who play BGS as a primary part of the game feel the same. I accept that may just be the circle I have dealings with, but some of those were ardent "BGS all modes" supporters until they had to combat an unknown and unidentifiable enemy from Solo/PG attacking them.

See, the problem with this logic is that you aren't PLAYING the BGS, it ISN'T a game like PP; BackGround Simulation. You are no doubt manipulating the BGS, but so is everyone else as long as they are doing ANYTHING that isn't just flying around aimlessly.

Demanding that you get preferential treatment because that is your preferred activity is no different than a miner claiming that they deserve better output for their efforts than they are getting. You are both demanding that Frontier discriminate in your favor. You have the same tools as anyone else to manipulate that system.

OOBGS also doesn't deal with a number of factors:

• Platform - Without cross platform play, you cannot attack someone that isn't on the same platform as you
• Timezones - Global game, local play; to wit, unless you can "defend" 24/7, you aren't going to prevent someone radically out of sync from you
• Instancing - The game doesn't guarantee you'll even see your opposition
• Location - Unless you are Friends, you won't see where they are, so, if they go to another location and you don't get a wake lock, you don't even know where they are

Like it or not, Open Only won't solve your perceived problem. For what it is worth, the BGS conforms to reality. Most shipping makes it through, and piracy actually harms the nation the pirates come from by depriving it of those resources.

 

[DemiserofD]

Would they? You are assuming activity is constant and numbers are equal all the time. Open is not a cure all, but it certainly makes for situations to become more dynamic when they arise. Uncapped UM would compel a power into focussing on one place until its out of danger, if at all. It also allows attackers to directly target a certain system, and for both to fairly duke it out in a way thats actually generating gameplay situations rather than reducing them down into grind races that require little actual flying skill to do.



And he we go again with the 'second class citizens' 'reliant on combat pilots'. First: hauling is a job just like UM is in Powerplay. We all do it, we all help others who do it. You've read examples of whole powers who do it (Winters) who haul to expand as well as defend. And if you actually understood Powerplay or tactics at all, you'd know fortifiers would be the lifeblood of a power, and the most protected and trained pilots because of the potential dangers.



Then we just have to disagree on that one.

Well...yeah. But that's no different from currently. The only reason why unequal activity would hurt a power is if the haulers want to operate without the combat players, who might live on a different time zone, in which case they couldn't do anything until their combat masters logged in to let them play the game. Otherwise it would have exactly the same effect as it does currently - IE, none.

Seriously, think this one through mate, it makes no sense at all. The argument itself does prove that the haulers would be second-class subservient citizens, though.

Open is not only not a cure-all, it's not a cure-anything.

First: hauling is a job just like UM is in Powerplay.

Oh, and lastly? It's not a job at all. It seems like you're expecting your haulers to log in every day from 9 to 5 to haul for you. Which is, of course, ridiculous. Expect players to treat a game like a job and you'd gosh darn better pay them like a job or there's not a snowball's chance in heck they'll show up in the morning.

 

[DemiserofD]

I actually agree with you that Powerplay needs a total rewrite. If you had read further you'd also know that so far (from what we know) FD don't want to do that at all. They are not willing to commit to that, so we have changes that are small in scope. Read the proposal, properly and you'll see FD themselves know parts don't work- NPCs in particular don't scale to Powerplays level at all, making one mode risk free, distorting any resulting tactics that may evolve. The only way to get opposition to scale is to replace NPCs with players. The other option is to scale merit rewards based on mode, since mixing players are far more dangerous.

This is exactly why I need to resist OOPP so much. Because I firmly believe it wouldn't fix anything, and would in fact make things worse.

I'd far rather have a real fix a few years down the line, than a 'fix' a-la the Pulse Wave Scanner that fixes an obvious issue(the egg) at the cost of virtually killing the very thing it was meant to help.

That said, I'm going to repeat what I said earlier; because of the way pvp player skill is skewed towards the top 10%, and among them the top 10%, NPCs who accurately simulate players would be completely invincible and unbeatable to 90% of the player population.

If your objective is to forcibly eject the vast majority of the playerbase, I can think of no better solution, I guess.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Well...yeah. But that's no different from currently. The only reason why unequal activity would hurt a power is if the haulers want to operate without the combat players, who might live on a different time zone, in which case they couldn't do anything until their combat masters logged in to let them play the game. Otherwise it would have exactly the same effect as it does currently - IE, none.

Seriously, think this one through mate, it makes no sense at all. The argument itself does prove that the haulers would be second-class subservient citizens, though.

Open is not only not a cure-all, it's not a cure-anything.

I think you need to think a bit outside the box. You are still fixated on this idea haulers in Powerplay are some downtrodden underclass, when in reality they are the same people who do everything else.

Please read what I wrote earlier to see the impact of open, uncapped UM and unified fort direction together. Co-ordination is far more important but its not everything, fast ships and skill are still the most important thing- its just alone you need to think about more than T-9 + no shield x time.

Oh, and lastly? It's not a job at all. It seems like you're expecting your haulers to log in every day from 9 to 5 to haul for you. Which is, of course, ridiculous. Expect players to treat a game like a job and you'd gosh darn better pay them like a job or there's not a snowball's chance in heck they'll show up in the morning.

Job, role, its a word to describe the task. Killing is a job, hauling is a job. Log into any PP discord and people have dedicated systems to fortify, scout, defend. But from the sounds of it you never have.

 

[DemiserofD]

Roles such as close escort would be rare.

Open (in the context of Sandros proposed Open) would:

Make large vessels with lots of cargo much more of a target and a bigger gamble to run. A 100% cargo ship with thing shields (even a Cutter) can be phased and Gromed easily.

No, they wouldn't. People would still run the larger ships, because every trip means another chance to die. Instead, they'd just rely 100% on combat players in FDLs to keep them alive, probably with the addition of healy beams.

FCs would be a fun complication. If a rival knows a transport FC is there (or arrives) the cargo ships are prime targets since they have to run straight to jump out.

No, they wouldn't. They'd have to sit in supercruise waiting for a target to appear, which means all the defending combat player has to do is interdict them and then tell the hauler to jump out for their 15 second journey to the station.

Smaller, faster vessels would become the norm, like a Clipper. By having less cargo it makes fortifying take longer, and more trips required. Evasion and HW would be the number one training goal.

Only if they're hauling alone, which they'd never do, because it would be pointless compared to using larger ships with combat overlord - sorry, I mean escort.

Capitals would be hotbeds of activity during an attack due to being the destination of all fortifying, and opportunistic at other times.

And they're not already? Unless you mean pvp ships actively murdering the defending faction's ships, which makes less than 0% sense in any context. "Yes, the most dangerous system in the power should be their home system, brilliant."

'Escort' would really be close support- defenders would fly fast ships like Couriers to intercept any roving attacker allowing transports opportunity to slip past.

Get real, they'd fly FDL's.

Attackers would be the opposite, trying to attack in a very short window before defenders arrive.

That's literally no different than what they already do.

Scouting would become vital. Knowing if a place was empty or where rivals are would allow large ships to work.

No, it wouldn't. You'd look at the map to see where they're fortifying and go there.

All powers have profiles on each other- they watch each other and what they do each week, looking for weaknesses. This would become even more important, because from this you can plan when to fortify yourself, and when to anticipate where other powers might be doing theirs.

This literally happens already.

'Mega' UM sites where attackers continually UM would force the defender to either drive off the attackers directly, or outfortify them (or a mix of both simultaneously). This would lead to a new tactic of 'strike teams' late in the cycle, since you;d have to be patrolling to ward off any late snipe attacks. This would be particularly dangerous, as a power could fortify totally and feel safe, while a rival UMs in the last days / hours of a cycle and can specifically target high CC systems normally out of reach. Defenders would need to scout and be aware of this action.

Yes, you'd have a massive pvp fight-fest, where haulers are...what was it? Right, second class citizens.

A defender who has mega UM sites and has to fortify (going to one singular place) is going to need to up its game, as the combination could make them very vulnerable to turmoil.

No, they'd need to fight better. And if the other side has better pvp players? Too damn bad, they're screwed. The only thing that will matter is who's best at shooting things.

But saying that, if you are not under attack the day to day travels to distant and remote parts of your territory would not change. You'd have to be on your guard though (which is what should happen now but does not) for random attack, but that again is good, because it means even routine flights have to be taken seriously.

I don't want to be on my guard every hour of every day, that sounds like misery. Stop trying to force your views on others for daydreams that are unlikely at best, impossible at worst.

 

[DemiserofD]

I think you need to think a bit outside the box. You are still fixated on this idea haulers in Powerplay are some downtrodden underclass, when in reality they are the same people who do everything else.

Please read what I wrote earlier to see the impact of open, uncapped UM and unified fort direction together. Co-ordination is far more important but its not everything, fast ships and skill are still the most important thing- its just alone you need to think about more than T-9 + no shield x time.



Job, role, its a word to describe the task. Killing is a job, hauling is a job. Log into any PP discord and people have dedicated systems to fortify, scout, defend. But from the sounds of it you never have.

I read what you said; it's 100% bullhockey, daydreams based on wishes with absolutely no factual support.

Haulers aren't currently a downtrodden class, but they will be.

And for absolutely no benefit, certainly not fixing the very real conceptual challenges faced by powerplay.

 

[Rubbernuke]

This is exactly why I need to resist OOPP so much. Because I firmly believe it wouldn't fix anything, and would in fact make things worse.

If its all we have, its better than now which is powers dialling it in each week.

I'd far rather have a real fix a few years down the line, than a 'fix' a-la the Pulse Wave Scanner that fixes an obvious issue(the egg) at the cost of virtually killing the very thing it was meant to help.

Its been nearly six years. Willing to wait another three? Well enjoy as 5C destroy whats left of the feature waiting.

That said, I'm going to repeat what I said earlier; because of the way pvp player skill is skewed towards the top 10%, and among them the top 10%, NPCs who accurately simulate players would be completely invincible and unbeatable to 90% of the player population.

Its not about being invincible, its at least trying to make hauling more perilous. In the solo game you take off in complete safety, fly in near total safety and land in total safety. Thats not condusive to a competitive game unless there is the chance you could fail, otherwise tasks like fortifying are simply inevitable rather than possible.

If your objective is to forcibly eject the vast majority of the playerbase, I can think of no better solution, I guess.

You speak with certainty, what evidence do you have?

 

[DemiserofD]

If its all we have, its better than now which is powers dialling it in each week.



Its been nearly six years. Willing to wait another three? Well enjoy as 5C destroy whats left of the feature waiting.



Its not about being invincible, its at least trying to make hauling more perilous. In the solo game you take off in complete safety, fly in near total safety and land in total safety. Thats not condusive to a competitive game unless there is the chance you could fail, otherwise tasks like fortifying are simply inevitable rather than possible.



You speak with certainty, what evidence do you have?

I literally told you my evidence. Look up the Pareto Principle, it's a law demonstrated on every level of human society. Now you show me your proof.

 

[Rubbernuke]

No, they wouldn't. People would still run the larger ships, because every trip means another chance to die. Instead, they'd just rely 100% on combat players in FDLs to keep them alive, probably with the addition of healy beams.

And if you read further on, you'd see that flying larger ships is still possible with luck and scouting beforehand. But from what you write we are already seeing fortification become more nuanced.

No, they wouldn't. They'd have to sit in supercruise waiting for a target to appear, which means all the defending combat player has to do is interdict them and then tell the hauler to jump out for their 15 second journey to the station.

These FCs would appear in a captial, which, with the changes would be a prime spot for people to attack. A glace at the left panel will show known enemy carriers.

Beyond that, again we are seeing more potential dynamic play rather than the A to B. More teamwork (which you wanted?), more situations to manage.

Only if they're hauling alone, which they'd never do, because it would be pointless compared to using larger ships with combat overlord - sorry, I mean escort.

Oh dear, there you go again. Only a fool would fly a lumbering slow ship when they have opposition. Its a balance between efficiency and survival.

And they're not already? Unless you mean pvp ships actively murdering the defending faction's ships, which makes less than 0% sense in any context. "Yes, the most dangerous system in the power should be their home system, brilliant."

Well no, not really. For one thing some powers fortify outbound, so they are completely safe.

Tell that to any major cities in wartime that 'its safe because its the capital'. You still have to defend it since its a strategic objective and choke point.

Get real, they'd fly FDL's.

Why? I mean some will, but defence will be about disrupting attackers in the most efficient way possible. Attackers will need firepower but defenders will just need interdictors and speed. The situation would be different in a UM situation, where both sides would need firepower however.

That's literally no different than what they already do.

Which is bad 'because'? At least now that attack has meaning to the ongoing situation and not being frivolous.

No, it wouldn't. You'd look at the map to see where they're fortifying and go there.

I'm talking much more than attacking, knowing where attacks are taking place, what are they flying so you can use that large ship, for example.

This literally happens already.

I literally stated that in my sentence. In an Open context it becomes even more important and real time, since knowledge can give you an advantage and anticipate situations.

Yes, you'd have a massive pvp fight-fest, where haulers are...what was it? Right, second class citizens.

That chip on your shoulder is showing again. Think strategically- who is more important to a defender in this situation? The hauler with fortification (which will be in danger briefly as they leave for the capital) or the defending player? The answer is both- the fortifier is keeping that area secure, the defence force trying to stop the UM squads. The same in the capital, without haulers the power dies. Do you honestly think players after all this time treat them as 'second class'?

No, they'd need to fight better. And if the other side has better pvp players? Too damn bad, they're screwed. The only thing that will matter is who's best at shooting things.

I thought you said earlier none of this would make any difference All powers shoot things, unless there is a secret power that UMs via hauling

I don't want to be on my guard every hour of every day, that sounds like misery. Stop trying to force your views on others for daydreams that are unlikely at best, impossible at worst.

Then why did you pledge at all? Powerplay is about clashing powers fighting to be number one.

Stop trying to force your views on others for daydreams that are unlikely at best

LOL! I'm not the one pretending they speak for everyone, nor am I 'forcing them on anyone'. I'm here debating the ideas and exploring them just like you are.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I read what you said; it's 100% bullhockey, daydreams based on wishes with absolutely no factual support.

Haulers aren't currently a downtrodden class, but they will be.

And for absolutely no benefit, certainly not fixing the very real conceptual challenges faced by powerplay.

My explanations are based on what I've experienced and done in the game. Plus, how do I prove these ideas to you? Why are you the arbiter of whats 'right'?

Powers remain solvent via hauling fortification. Currently that can be done risk free, leading to defence being to easy. These changes make that essential service prone to disruption, leading to more emergent situations because of it.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I literally told you my evidence. Look up the Pareto Principle, it's a law demonstrated on every level of human society. Now you show me your proof.

And that is relevant because? Your issue is that you don't like people shooting at you, in a game where thats not wrong, in a feature which is about being competitive but is stagnant because one of the most important tasks you have to do to survive has a failure rate of 0%.

 

[DemiserofD]

My explanations are based on what I've experienced and done in the game. Plus, how do I prove these ideas to you? Why are you the arbiter of whats 'right'?

Powers remain solvent via hauling fortification. Currently that can be done risk free, leading to defence being to easy. These changes make that essential service prone to disruption, leading to more emergent situations because of it.

I thought you said earlier none of this would make any difference All powers shoot things, unless there is a secret power that UMs via hauling

Yes. Exactly. Nothing would change in terms of the actual results. The fortifications would still succeed just as much as currently, so long as the defending team outworked the attacking team. This would make absolutely no difference as far as that is concerned.

What would change would be which type of player would be biased towards in gameplay. This means shifting power from hauling to combat, and making haulers second-class citizens, exactly like Combat players are right now.

Exactly like I've been saying since the OP.

 

[DemiserofD]

And that is relevant because? Your issue is that you don't like people shooting at you, in a game where thats not wrong, in a feature which is about being competitive but is stagnant because one of the most important tasks you have to do to survive has a failure rate of 0%.

You mean, in a game where being shot at is a choice, Where there is already competition that's equally valid to your preferred form of competition, and is stale because of design decisions that have nothing to do with whether or not the gameplay feature takes place in open or solo.

The Pareto Principle clearly shows that your suggestion would simply put the power 100% in the hands of the top 1% of combat pilots while neglecting everyone else. It's a law of nature.

A bad solution is worse than no solution at all.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yes. Exactly. Nothing would change in terms of the actual results. The fortifications would still succeed just as much as currently, so long as the defending team outworked the attacking team. This would make absolutely no difference as far as that is concerned.

Well they'd have to work harder, and it would take longer at best with more ship losses. You are also not seeing the uncapped UM potential- if powers cannot fortify and reamin in a default UM state because they are pinned that way, the outcome is very, very different. No system is safe, unlike now where the most important systems are fortified first and are instantly safe.

What would change would be which type of player would be biased towards in gameplay. This means shifting from hauling to combat.
Exactly like I've been saying since the OP.

Which is whats needed. The bubble is not expanding, no new systems are available for Powerplay so space is finite. Since defence is so easy, it takes a miracle to get powers to drop decent systems to fight over, so the bubble winds up getting fuller and fuller. In short powers need to turmoil more, drop more systems more often to drive the cycle of expansion. Just look at each powers orders each week. Consolidate. Consolidate... on and on.

 

[DemiserofD]

Which is whats needed.

No, it makes literally no difference as long as the results remain the same!

Seriously dude, how many times do I have to say this? Making combat the most important part doesn't matter if the results stay the same!

And because the design of the game is flawed, they would remain the same, so long as relative player numbers remained the same. The combat players would fight the other combat players, the haulers would haul, nothing would change in terms of results.

Except, of course, if the one side had better pvpers, in which case they'd just win by default every time. IE, putting 100% of the power in the hands of the combat players.

IE, turning haulers into second-class citizens.

 

[Rubbernuke]

You mean, in a game where being shot at is a choice, Where there is already competition that's equally valid to your preferred form of competition, and is stale because of design decisions that have nothing to do with whether or not the gameplay feature takes place in open or solo.

Who is shooting at you in solo? Unless your power expands by combat sometimes its no-one at all. Its not competition either if fortification is inevitable and you can't do a thing about it.

The Pareto Principle clearly shows that your suggestion would simply put the power 100% in the hands of the top 1% of combat pilots while neglecting everyone else. It's a law of nature.

Have you ever been onto a Power discord, and saw the mix of people? What prevents people from learning basic evasion skills, building ships better, thinking up new strategies as individuals and groups? This psycho 1% teach others to be better, because then the power benefits.

A bad solution is worse than no solution at all.

Depending on where you stand at least.

 

[DemiserofD]

Who is shooting at you in solo? Unless your power expands by combat sometimes its no-one at all. Its not competition either if fortification is inevitable and you can't do a thing about it.



Have you ever been onto a Power discord, and saw the mix of people? What prevents people from learning basic evasion skills, building ships better, thinking up new strategies as individuals and groups? This psycho 1% teach others to be better, because then the power benefits.



Depending on where you stand at least.

Dude, competition is any time two players are working against each other.

This has absolutely nothing to do with being shot at. If I haul 20k and you haul 10k, that was a competition, and I won.

You can't redefine competition to mean whatever you enjoy competing at, that's not how it works.

 

[Rubbernuke]

No, it makes literally no difference as long as the results remain the same!

Seriously dude, how many times do I have to say this? Making combat the most important part doesn't matter if the results stay the same!

And because the design of the game is flawed, they would remain the same, so long as relative player numbers remained the same. The combat players would fight the other combat players, the haulers would haul, nothing would change in terms of results.

Except, of course, if the one side had better pvpers, in which case they'd just win by default every time. IE, putting 100% of the power in the hands of the combat players.

IE, turning haulers into second-class citizens.

Then I can conclude that you know nothing on powerplay or how it works. I'll make it simple:

Currently once a system is fortified its safe- and powers secure the best systems first. There is nothing you can do to stop it unless the power fortifying is asleep.

Unacapped UM allows a rival to keep a system undermined and in danger unless its fortified 100% more. The amounts are not fixed, so its ongoing.

Now, what would happen if power A pinned down all of power most profitable systems and at the end of the cycle they go into turmoil? Or, Power B could slow Power A directly?

Thats radically different, because the outcome is potentially more turmoils.

 

[Jacobis9000]

There's been a lot of discussion about whether or not Powerplay should be Open Only.

There are some fair points here; namely, that right now, there's little way to directly counteract the actions of an opposing faction, and that things are biased against combat. Instead, you need to just counter-grind them, doing more work than them in the same time period. This can feel unfair to players who want to be able to go out and directly stop these players, instead, as well as biasing against the combat side of things.

The current balance of power is clearly tilted away from Combat, especially in Open. Combat is slower, and playing in Open has no real benefits with many downsides, such as being killed by enemy factions, or even killed by just random gankers. If your objective is playing efficiently, then being in Open is clearly a poor choice. Okay, fair enough, these are reasonable complaints.

But does that mean open-only is a reasonable solution to these problems?

I don't think so. There's a fundamental problem with this proposal, and it has to do with balance of power, and what players will do in response to that balance.

What is the goal?

Firstly, as we talk about trying to fix this bias in the balance of power, what is our desired goal? After all, while the current form isn't fair, we don't want to take things too far and make them just as unfair to the opposite side. Clearly, if having the balance of power shifted to one direction(cargo hauling) is unacceptable, then having it equally shifted the opposite direction(combat) is no better. It's not solving the problem, just moving it from one pole to another.

And that's the problem with moving Powerplay to Open-Only. It shifts the balance of power ENTIRELY to the combat, putting it 100% at the whims of the combat players.

Why? Because no matter what you do, a pvp-optimized build will ALWAYS beat a cargo-hauling build. The current state of combat balance ensures that even attempting pvp in such a case simply doesn't work, because the other player will have a massive advantage from using cargo space for combat modules. Yes, the cargo hauler can often escape, but that will often mean high-waking away, which simply resets the fight, getting them nowhere.

Yes, the cargo hauler can bring escorts, but again, that puts power 100% in the domain of the combat players, with the cargo hauler a subservient second class.

To make matters worse, while Cargo haulers must face these challenges, as they MUST go to several pre-determined locations that can be defended, enemy combat ships face no similar restrictions. If your only goal is to destroy a target faction, all you need to do is drop in on a ring repeatedly and blow up civilian ships that spawn, and then the cops that follow. There is no way to locate a player doing this and no way to stop them, open or solo.

Is this truly a solution, when the net result is moving the balance of power entirely into the combat players' court? And what would the actual end result be?

---

What would be the net result of changing Powerplay to Open-Only?

Many people hope that it would result in many more players playing in Open, giving them more and better opportunities for rp-based combat, but I suspect the exact opposite would be true. The players who don't currently play in Open do so because they don't enjoy pvp. Not enjoying pvp is different from not enjoying any aspect of pve content; pve can be balanced to allow any player to complete it, with time and effort. Pvp is different; by nature, it will always skew towards the top 20% of combat pilots, who will win 80% of the time(See the Pareto Distribution). This means that, for many pilots, succeeding in a pvp context is quite literally impossible. It's not something you can work your way over, it's simply out of reach forever.

Making Powerplay open-only offers these players a choice; forcibly experience something they don't like(and often literally cannot win at, due to the fact that pvp always biases towards to most skilled players)....or don't do powerplay at all.

I strongly suspect that the net result would be SOME players moving to Open to try to continue, but as pvp rapidly comes to dominate the powerplay experience, and players discover that becoming skilled enough at pvp to succeed requires a much larger investment of time and effort than they're willing or able to put forward, the end result would be a powerplay far less active than even the current diminished version.

---

What is a more realistic solution?

The fundamental problem with this approach is that it assumes you can force players to engage in an activity they don't enjoy. This may work with short-term activities, like unlocking an engineer or a few ships, but Powerplay is nowhere near short-term. It requires sequential investment over long periods of time, and if players have a game they don't enjoy, they'll respond by just not playing.

So what is the solution? It might seem obvious, but make the game fun to play.

The most fundamental problem with Open right now is that the default two encounters you'll have with other players are A: Ignoring them, or B: Being killed by them. This is because these are the things the game does best at facilitating! It makes these two things EASY, while making most other shared activities frustratingly difficult by default!

If you're doing a wing mission and you see another player and you want to work with them, you need to go through multiple menus and requests, just to join together in the same wing. And then, afterwards, you're left with a 'friend' you most likely will never see again, requiring yet more menu fiddling to get rid of them. Most often if you're traveling and you see another player, that player will be going in an entirely different direction from you(and you have no way of knowing), so there's no point in anything other than a quick waggle of your wings. There's no way ingame to communicate with other members of your faction, so trying to coordinate action with other members requires the assistance of out-of-game apps and forums. BGS manipulation is completely obscured, so it's impossible to tell if another player is helping you or hurting you. Opening your ship for multicrew as often results in them shooting a station as actually helping you. And so on, and so forth.

THESE are the ways that the game should be changed to make Open Play more desirable and used. Facilitate positive player interaction, and make the process easy and fun, not a chore.

But don't just assume you can force players to engage in a game they not only dislike, they have no chance of winning. They'll do exactly what anyone would do in that situation.

Leave.

I don’t see where you get the idea that a person who is not good at PVP can never be good at PVP. Personally I am kind of shocked you can complete online universe goals in single player mode. That’s totally wrong. If that’s what power play is? Not sure as I’m a n00b.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Dude, competition is any time two players are working against each other.

This has absolutely nothing to do with being shot at. If I haul 20k and you haul 10k, that was a competition, and I won.

And how does that relate to UM? How can I outhaul you there when you can get to 100% and thats it?

You can't redefine competition to mean whatever you enjoy competing at, that's not how it works.

Its making competition have more than one way to achive your aims.