Newcomer / Intro Fuel Scoop Question .....

[Wombat1940]

The picture you posted of the stars filter on the galaxy map


It does tell you. The dotted line tells you there's no enough fuel. If you watch your fuel gauge as you jump you will see when you're about to run out of fuel. Always think ahead if you're not in inhabited space.

Yes I understand it tells you your fuel situation in regard to your fuel on-board, but makes no allowance for the potential of fuel scooping or more importantly planning a route so you can fuel scoop. To me, this is what is inferred by checking the box "apply filter to route" when the 7 fuel star boxes are checked. It should plan the route to enable you to top-up with fuel. But it doesn't. It selects a route irrespective and relies on you to make changes to the route to cover for fuel topping up. OK, so be it, now I know. I must modify the route to cover for any fuel requirements, but what a pity they don't say so and infer that they are doing it for you. If I'm doing a 105 systems jump I would expect 100 of them to be shown dotted with the fuel tanks I have.

 

[Wombat1940]

Let me try to help you out Wombat. Plot your route and follow your route. However, don't rely on the plotter being right. Watch your fuel gauge just like you would in a car or a plane. If you notice you are getting low on fuel, go into the map and find the nearest star you can scoop from. Detour to that star, refuel and the plotter will reroute you from there. Also, scooping at every KGBFOAM star you come across will get you far without worrying about running out of fuel. Full scoops not just what's needed to get you to the next star.

Thanks Mitch. Yes, I understand this now. See my reply to Ozric in post number #81

 

[Wombat1940]

Seems to me that you're plotting for OBAFGKM stars, applying them to your route, and then switching to realistic map, based on this image. That's why it's then plotting you through brown dwarfs. Realistic mode doesn't care about your filters, it just finds you stars and tries to get you to your destination. You need to ensure you're still on map mode, otherwise it's going to try and re-plot and ignore what you've got checked.

Also, if you've filtered for main sequence stars, and then before you jump it says your next destination is anything but up in the top right, then cancel your fsd charge immediately
and check your filters again and make sure they're being applied properly. Never just blind jump into a system assuming it's of the right kind you've filtered for, the game will always tell you what's up next before you jump, but you have to watch for it before it disappears.

You should never just run out of fuel. I still don't get how people manage it, unless they're doing it deliberately or pushing themselves into really far out places, but you can always see your fuel gauge and it takes no effort to check it, so if you see it's low and the next jump is going to leave you stranded, then just... don't jump. Check your map, find a scoopable star, jump to that. If you're only filtering scoopables and refueling on each jump it's nearly impossible to run out. If you start to, you've messed up.

Thanks Hawk. Yes I did have unrealistic expectation for checking the box "apply filter to route". However I will have a look at the Map Mode as against the Realistic Mode.

 

[Wombat1940]

Thank you! I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out why his route wasn't plotting correctly for him, and completely missing the obvious.

@ [U]Wombat1940[/U] (and anyone else new to the galaxy map): Once you use the map view to plot your filtered route don't touch it. Any change you make will change the route. Even reopening the map will cause it to find a new route if the trip was long enough.

I've been switching to the Realistic Mode because the Map Mode shows so little, not realizing it re-routed my journey by doing so. Will spend more time studying the route in the Map Mode. That is if there is any route plotted at all. It might be that with the ship and bits I have, the journey is impossible to achieve.

 

[Wombat1940]

Part of the problem here is that you're switching map modes.

If you want the route plotter to remember to only plot a route through scoopable stars, then you must keep the galaxy map in "Map" mode, with the "star type" filter showing. If you switch the map to Realistic mode, or any other filter, the route plotter will delete the route (even if you tick the "apply filter to route" button) and it will plot new routes based on the currently selected map settings.

Ha! I think this is the conclusion I've been coming to as I've been answering the post in chronological order. Thanks.

 

[aRJay]

The route plotter is a simple thing that essentially puts a straight line between your start and destination points then selects stars on or near that line that are firstly reachable by your ship and secondly match your filters.
The problem is it isn’t capable of thought and will only go so far off that straight route, which can cause it to fail to plot a route at all, so it will ignore the filters to try and produce a route that works.
Us pilots being capable of thought and less restricted in our choices for decision making can choose to override the thing if it is going to get us into trouble.

One of the reasons Map mode shows less than Realistic mode is the filters at work.

 

[Wombat1940]

The route plotter is a simple thing that essentially puts a straight line between your start and destination points then selects stars on or near that line that are firstly reachable by your ship and secondly match your filters.
The problem is it isn’t capable of thought and will only go so far off that straight route, which can cause it to fail to plot a route at all, so it will ignore the filters to try and produce a route that works.
Us pilots being capable of thought and less restricted in our choices for decision making can choose to override the thing if it is going to get us into trouble.

Yes, very good point. I've been expecting too much of the auto route plot.

 

[Hawk of Battle]

Map mode shows too little? Map mode shows you everything you need! And it allows you to quickly switch between all sorts of filters to track things like your visited stars, federal/alliance/Imp systems, find high population systems, systems at war or in boom, etc. Realistic just shows you everything without regard for it's use to you, and in some places, it even shows so much you can barely even see anything at all. Turn off realistic and don't use it. I suspect most people probably forget it even exists and just stick to map mode all the time.

 

[Deleted member 166264]

...Turn off realistic and don't use it. I suspect most people probably forget it even exists and just stick to map mode all the time.

I only use map mode if I'm looking for a specific type of system or I'm making a long trip. Otherwise I leave it in realistic mode since I prefer how it looks over the others.

 

[MishaTX]

Yes, it'd be less confusing if it didn't re-route when switching map modes/filters.

That's one reason I hardly ever use "apply filter to route". What I'd like would be to have, say, three buttons:

1) Plot
2) Recalculate
3) Clear.

So when you'd pressed 1,after applying filters as needed, the course would be set in stone until you either press 2, 3, or 1.

All of that being said, I may have been extremely lucky, but in all of my travels I have yet to get in trouble by following the two rules that follow:

1) If you can scoop it, do so. Filling up 32 tons is not faster if you do it in one go (but it might cook you and your boat), and "flying on fumes" doesn't earn you a snappy decal.

2) Check your Galmap often. If it has a little "star + drop" symbol next to your current system, fill 'er up!!! (or alt+tab and go to the fuel rat website while you jump to the next system. You'll need it). If there is no such symbol, but your next way point is at the end of a dotted line, you weren't paying attention earlier. Start praying while you hunt for scoopables within range of the fumes in your tank.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

What's so dangerous about these ? Thanks.

Well white dwarfs have big exlusion zones, and put up much heat near limits of those zones. What happens if you hit that zone border is that you drop from supercruise, and start heating. Now comes nasty part. Running up your engines back to supercruise mode produce heat too. If you do not have heatsinks, and if you ship is hot running, you may get cooked. Edit. And yes those jets too may surprise you. And may even damage the ship.

 

[Wombat1940]

Here's my conclusion in pictures:
1. I very simple plot in Map Mode.

It plots the route (it should, it's right next door).

2. Another plot in Map Mode, but target system further away.

It won't plot a route in Map Mode. It can't. It cannot meet the filter conditions.

3. The same target system route plot but in Realistic Mode.

It plots the route without a problem but totally ignores the fuel filter conditions required in the Map Mode. Why? It doesn't have to. It's not a requirement in Realistic Mode.

4. The same target system route plot but switching from a Realistic to Map Mode by simply clicking the Map Mode button.

It's really the Realistically planned route shown under the Map Mode, making it look like a Map Mode planned route, which it is not ! I thought it was in my 105 system planned route when truly speaking, and as Map Mode route plot had told me: There wasn't one. Hence my 4 forced suicides. But that's how we learn, together with all posts in this thread. Thanks boys and girls.

 

[Wombat1940]

Map mode shows too little? Map mode shows you everything you need! And it allows you to quickly switch between all sorts of filters to track things like your visited stars, federal/alliance/Imp systems, find high population systems, systems at war or in boom, etc. Realistic just shows you everything without regard for it's use to you, and in some places, it even shows so much you can barely even see anything at all. Turn off realistic and don't use it. I suspect most people probably forget it even exists and just stick to map mode all the time.

Yes ...... I have to agree. However, each to his own.

 

[Codger]

Turned out to be more complicated than expected, eh Wombat1940? Such is life in Elite Dangerous. I appreciate your approach, though. Experimentation is good!

For what it's worth, I almost never use Realistic mode except when I'm unable to see my destination star (because it's not in the filters I've set in Map mode). Then I sometimes switch to Realistic so I can see what the star type is. Then I switch back to Map mode, and replot to make sure it's abiding by my filters again.

The Galaxy Map has a lot of great features, and a lot of limitations also (and a few bugs), but overall I think FD did a pretty darn good job of giving us a usable navigation tool for the entire galaxy of 400 billion systems!

But now I'm curious. You said you're doing 105 jumps for something -- and I wonder what you're doing that takes that many jumps, especially since you're still in the original Sidewinder (I think).

 

[CMDR Jago Kain]

I'm glad you got to the root of it Wombat! I hope my "help" earlier in the week wasn't too unhelpful.

The 105 jump journey is my fault. Last weekend I suggested a trip to scan some ammonia worlds and then to Betancourt Base for the CG. I've since revised that to "buy a cobra and an A rated FSD". ☺

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Exploration trip with Sidey is not for faint hearted

 

[Deleted member 166264]

But now I'm curious. You said you're doing 105 jumps for something -- and I wonder what you're doing that takes that many jumps, especially since you're still in the original Sidewinder (I think).

Seeing how it looks like he's still in the Bubble I'm guessing it's a combination of not upgrading the FSD yet, and he's left the jump distance set to economical rather than fastest route.

 

[Hawk of Battle]

Seeing how it looks like he's still in the Bubble I'm guessing it's a combination of not upgrading the FSD yet, and he's left the jump distance set to economical rather than fastest route.

His average jump range from one of those images appears to be around 6 lys. He certainly ain't getting nowhere fast like that.

 

[Wombat1940]

I'm glad you got to the root of it Wombat! I hope my "help" earlier in the week wasn't too unhelpful.

The 105 jump journey is my fault. Last weekend I suggested a trip to scan some ammonia worlds and then to Betancourt Base for the CG. I've since revised that to "buy a cobra and an A rated FSD". ☺

No ..... no !!!! It's all helpful. If you see what I'm flying, my CMDR rating being less than zero, it's no wonder I can't system jump. Ha! I took on a courier delivery last night. 16 bars of gold, all to be delivered for less than 10LYs. Worth around 250 000 credits...... this will be a breeze. Wrong ! It was going to take me 8 trips because I could only carry 2 bars per trip !!! Ha!
I have some upgrading to do and how's that for a useful lesson. But the biggest lesson has been my gaining an understanding of Galaxy Realistic and Map Modes and makes a nonsense of my earlier post:

.....
I think that's bad [talking about Galaxy Map Route Planning]. If you can't produce a route that meets all guidelines, then don't produce a route at all! Or at least say so ..... I've had to suicided 4 times because of it.
.....

That's exactly what it does or doesn't do: it does NOT produce a route. It can't because of the limiting fuel scooping system conditions I applied. What a huge, useful lesson.

 

[Wombat1940]

Turned out to be more complicated than expected, eh Wombat1940? Such is life in Elite Dangerous. I appreciate your approach, though. Experimentation is good!

For what it's worth, I almost never use Realistic mode except when I'm unable to see my destination star (because it's not in the filters I've set in Map mode). Then I sometimes switch to Realistic so I can see what the star type is. Then I switch back to Map mode, and replot to make sure it's abiding by my filters again.

The Galaxy Map has a lot of great features, and a lot of limitations also (and a few bugs), but overall I think FD did a pretty darn good job of giving us a usable navigation tool for the entire galaxy of 400 billion systems!

But now I'm curious. You said you're doing 105 jumps for something -- and I wonder what you're doing that takes that many jumps, especially since you're still in the original Sidewinder (I think).

Yes ..... I'm still flying the introductory Sidewinder. I haven't even graduated yet ! The 105 jumps took me (sorry, was to take me) to a System that I had a particular interest in.