Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

LanceLord

LanceLord
MTBFritz said:
Why do that when doing nothing and stringing people along works just as fine? Remember you release something if you feel its good (enough) or living up to its promise. Releasing something disappointing might hurt your work and/or future far more than any delay ever could. CIGs constant "SQ42 is coming along very nicely" doesnt match the lack of footage, information, a roadmap or any kind of visual beartrap...it all screams "we have nothing" at me.
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I was looking at this from a pragmatic perspective. Yes that is the obvious reason why CI/CR has stalled on actual project progression to date. But all cynicism aside, it IS theoretically possible for CR to have his cake and eat it too. Why?

Because contemporary precedents exist:

1. Hello Games. Just like CR, Sean Murray KNEW his game wasn't ready. But caved in to fan base hype/pressure and NMS virgin debut went down in infamy. However, Murray and his team made what has to be the greatest come back in the gaming industry. After the catastrophic PR fallout, Murray humbly put his head down and quietly worked his off. He fixed, optimized and transformed his dumpster fire into one of the best single/multi player titles on the market to date. NMS is now a phenomenal, fully functional game with multiple DLC

2. WHS. Again just like CR, Dan Varva KNEW his game wasn't ready for release. But a lack of financial budget/dev resources forced his hand to prematurely release KCD. And yes, KCD PR fallout was spectacular. KCD debuted at #1 on Steam 100, then swan dived into oblivion a couple weeks later. But despite the nightmare PR, Varva and WHS worked their rears off to address the technical failures in KCD. They stuck to their roadmap and not only fixed the core game breaking bugs, but released 100% of their DLC on time as promised. And shortly afterwards, the long requested modding tool which was made available to gamers for free. KCD is now a fully functional title with an extended shelf life thanks to the official modding tools.

3. CDPR and CP 2077. The former still has a long way to go in extinguishing the dumpster fire they created to sabotage their latter brain child. But CDPR has been extremely accountable/responsive to the PR backlash. And pushed out several record hotfixes which addressed the game breaking bugs. All within 2 weeks of title release.

Similar to all these CEOs, Chis KNOWS his single player title isn't ready. And his multiplayer game mode is still a long way from release. So why not release whatever unbaked product he's been witholding with SQ42? He clearly invested a good chunk of the SC dev budget early in the project, shooting those mocap scenes with former Hollywood A listers. And he said somewhere back in CitizenCon 2016 that SQ42 was pretty much ready. That it just needed polish. Then he somewhat substantiated that a year later when he showed that vertical slice footage here.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcHAfaQh3QE


But it seems the only thing still prohibiting a SQ42 release, was/is CR goal to release it simultaneously with the multiplayer PU ie. as one packaged deal?

And because historic precedents also exist:

4. M$ historic firing of CR. Which was a critical exit criteria milestone to achieve that final release date for Freelancer. M$ was still able to salvage whatever sabotage/damage CR did during his tenure as director/project lead on Freelancer.

Regardless, a SQ42 release is theoretically possible, given the redemption arcs of NMS, KCD and CP 2077 (in progress). History has been known to repeat itself. If Chris wants to legitimize his jpg pyramid scheme, then at minimum he really needs to release SQ42. Suck up the negative PR tsunami that will hit CI from the non SC franchise community (industry critics and non SC player base skeptics alike). Use the incomplete/unoptimized status of SQ42 to finally justify/validate more jpg sales.

But such speculation all depends on the community investors/stakeholders. Or more specifically, those investors who're genuine SC community heavyweight influencers (aka the Calders and not CR family like brother Eric). The Calders seem to be the only stakeholders with the power to suggest CI cease sabotaging its dev progression with SQ42. And who can politely tell Chris to GTFO the way. Just like M$ politely dismissed him on Freelancer.
 

metatheurgist

metatheurgist
LanceLord said:
I was looking at this from a pragmatic perspective. Yes that is the obvious reason why CI/CR has stalled on actual project progression to date. But all cynicism aside, it IS theoretically possible for CR to have his cake and eat it too. Why?

Because contemporary precedents exist:

1. Hello Games. Just like CR, Sean Murray KNEW his game wasn't ready. But caved in to fan base hype/pressure and NMS virgin debut went down in infamy. However, Murray and his team made what has to be the greatest come back in the gaming industry. After the catastrophic PR fallout, Murray humbly put his head down and quietly worked his off. He fixed, optimized and transformed his dumpster fire into one of the best single/multi player titles on the market to date. NMS is now a phenomenal, fully functional game with multiple DLC

2. WHS. Again just like CR, Dan Varva KNEW his game wasn't ready for release. But a lack of financial budget/dev resources forced his hand to prematurely release KCD. And yes, KCD PR fallout was spectacular. KCD debuted at #1 on Steam 100, then swan dived into oblivion a couple weeks later. But despite the nightmare PR, Varva and WHS worked their rears off to address the technical failures in KCD. They stuck to their roadmap and not only fixed the core game breaking bugs, but released 100% of their DLC on time as promised. And shortly afterwards, the long requested modding tool which was made available to gamers for free. KCD is now a fully functional title with an extended shelf life thanks to the official modding tools.

3. CDPR and CP 2077. The former still has a long way to go in extinguishing the dumpster fire they created to sabotage their latter brain child. But CDPR has been extremely accountable/responsive to the PR backlash. And pushed out several record hotfixes which addressed the game breaking bugs. All within 2 weeks of title release.

Similar to all these CEOs, Chis KNOWS his single player title isn't ready. And his multiplayer game mode is still a long way from release. So why not release whatever unbaked product he's been witholding with SQ42? He clearly invested a good chunk of the SC dev budget early in the project, shooting those mocap scenes with former Hollywood A listers. And he said somewhere back in CitizenCon 2016 that SQ42 was pretty much ready. That it just needed polish. Then he somewhat substantiated that a year later when he showed that vertical slice footage here.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcHAfaQh3QE


But it seems the only thing still prohibiting a SQ42 release, was/is CR goal to release it simultaneously with the multiplayer PU ie. as one packaged deal?

And because historic precedents also exist:

4. M$ historic firing of CR. Which was a critical exit criteria milestone to achieve that final release date for Freelancer. M$ was still able to salvage whatever sabotage/damage CR did during his tenure as director/project lead on Freelancer.

Regardless, a SQ42 release is theoretically possible, given the redemption arcs of NMS, KCD and CP 2077 (in progress). History has been known to repeat itself. If Chris wants to legitimize his jpg pyramid scheme, then at minimum he really needs to release SQ42. Suck up the negative PR tsunami that will hit CI from the non SC franchise community (industry critics and non SC player base skeptics alike). Use the incomplete/unoptimized status of SQ42 to finally justify/validate more jpg sales.

But such speculation all depends on the community investors/stakeholders. Or more specifically, those investors who're genuine SC community heavyweight influencers (aka the Calders and not CR family like brother Eric). The Calders seem to be the only stakeholders with the power to suggest CI cease sabotaging its dev progression with SQ42. And who can politely tell Chris to GTFO the way. Just like M$ politely dismissed him on Freelancer.
Click to expand...
The primary difference there is those companies didn't beg for 400M dollars and waste it. They used their own money to get back the trust; CR will be grovelling for more like a junkie promising he's good for it. And no company in their right mind will bail CR out, frankly I'm amazed the Calders have gone so far, but then again I'm assuming they are getting a return one way or another. Unless they're as deluded as the backers.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
MTBFritz said:
<....Thats really hard to believe. Either most people discussing SC havent played SC than or they dont know the first thing about the project to begin with. Your sugegstion that this is "common knowledge" simply isnt true when you take a look at whats happening right now. What I agree with is that I didnt would ve called it that a few pages earlier but since its been brought up and it makes a lot of sense from a logical point of view I would agree with it. Yet many wouldnt because that would take away CIGs primary defensive strategy.....ITS ALFAAAAA....>
Click to expand...

That comment taken out of context to suit your personal narrative bias doesn't change what I typed. I relate from experience as a backer and member of the greater SC community, not by guessing intent or notion garnered mostly from third party opinion from elsewhere.

I mix with and talk to many other regular, long term backers on a daily basis...opinions are generally not as shuttered and naive as you assume ;)
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Question for those who play.

When watching streamers come in for a landing they invariably switch to third person to land after flying in first person.

Is the reason for this simply to show off the ship or is actually easier to land in third person?
 

Skizomeuh

Skizomeuh
I bet it's mainly for helping with the landing. UI doesn't feature any landing tool and for most of the ships, the cockpit is cluttered and offers bad field of view and spatial awareness.



Maybe MoleHD can say if headtracking helps.
 

sovapid

sovapid
Agony_Aunt said:
Question for those who play.

When watching streamers come in for a landing they invariably switch to third person to land after flying in first person.

Is the reason for this simply to show off the ship or is actually easier to land in third person?
Click to expand...

Generally easier. Depends where you are landing and what you are flying. Landing a Caterpillar at Lorville; going 3rd person is just about required to get down into the small (compared to the size of the ship) landing area without hitting the sides.
 

Surefoot

S
Agony_Aunt said:
Question for those who play.

When watching streamers come in for a landing they invariably switch to third person to land after flying in first person.

Is the reason for this simply to show off the ship or is actually easier to land in third person?
Click to expand...
As others hinted, visibility is zero from inside and there's no cameras that we can switch on MFDs, or that holo projection we have in ED, or any other helper to guide us - in addition the landing pad is fixed at the bottom of its hangar, so we have to check for clearances on bigger ships as they fit in there very tightly.
I would add that the artificial horizon (represented by the pitch scale on the HUD) is entirely off most of the time, due to various glitches and their stupid coordinates system (it's an euclidian space coordinate system as it seems, which obviously fails on a planetary surface if you're off the center of that system) so even on an open pad on planetary surface you have no real way of knowing if you are level from the inside.
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Someone on SA brought up this guy who is a whale from an article in 2015

www.pcgamer.com

Meet a fan who has spent $30,000 on Star Citizen ships

Why one Star Citizen fan has spent $30K on the game, and plans to spend more.
www.pcgamer.com www.pcgamer.com

Just checked out his youtube channel, in the interview he says he streams but only vids there relating to SC seem to be bugs. Can't find him on twitch either. Maybe he's lost a bit of his faith.
 

[VR] Merkir

[VR] Merkir
LanceLord said:
I was looking at this from a pragmatic perspective. Yes that is the obvious reason why CI/CR has stalled on actual project progression to date. But all cynicism aside, it IS theoretically possible for CR to have his cake and eat it too. Why?

Because contemporary precedents exist:

1. Hello Games. Just like CR, Sean Murray KNEW his game wasn't ready. But caved in to fan base hype/pressure and NMS virgin debut went down in infamy. However, Murray and his team made what has to be the greatest come back in the gaming industry. After the catastrophic PR fallout, Murray humbly put his head down and quietly worked his off. He fixed, optimized and transformed his dumpster fire into one of the best single/multi player titles on the market to date. NMS is now a phenomenal, fully functional game with multiple DLC

2. WHS. Again just like CR, Dan Varva KNEW his game wasn't ready for release. But a lack of financial budget/dev resources forced his hand to prematurely release KCD. And yes, KCD PR fallout was spectacular. KCD debuted at #1 on Steam 100, then swan dived into oblivion a couple weeks later. But despite the nightmare PR, Varva and WHS worked their rears off to address the technical failures in KCD. They stuck to their roadmap and not only fixed the core game breaking bugs, but released 100% of their DLC on time as promised. And shortly afterwards, the long requested modding tool which was made available to gamers for free. KCD is now a fully functional title with an extended shelf life thanks to the official modding tools.

3. CDPR and CP 2077. The former still has a long way to go in extinguishing the dumpster fire they created to sabotage their latter brain child. But CDPR has been extremely accountable/responsive to the PR backlash. And pushed out several record hotfixes which addressed the game breaking bugs. All within 2 weeks of title release.

Similar to all these CEOs, Chis KNOWS his single player title isn't ready. And his multiplayer game mode is still a long way from release. So why not release whatever unbaked product he's been witholding with SQ42? He clearly invested a good chunk of the SC dev budget early in the project, shooting those mocap scenes with former Hollywood A listers. And he said somewhere back in CitizenCon 2016 that SQ42 was pretty much ready. That it just needed polish. Then he somewhat substantiated that a year later when he showed that vertical slice footage here.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcHAfaQh3QE


But it seems the only thing still prohibiting a SQ42 release, was/is CR goal to release it simultaneously with the multiplayer PU ie. as one packaged deal?

And because historic precedents also exist:

4. M$ historic firing of CR. Which was a critical exit criteria milestone to achieve that final release date for Freelancer. M$ was still able to salvage whatever sabotage/damage CR did during his tenure as director/project lead on Freelancer.

Regardless, a SQ42 release is theoretically possible, given the redemption arcs of NMS, KCD and CP 2077 (in progress). History has been known to repeat itself. If Chris wants to legitimize his jpg pyramid scheme, then at minimum he really needs to release SQ42. Suck up the negative PR tsunami that will hit CI from the non SC franchise community (industry critics and non SC player base skeptics alike). Use the incomplete/unoptimized status of SQ42 to finally justify/validate more jpg sales.

But such speculation all depends on the community investors/stakeholders. Or more specifically, those investors who're genuine SC community heavyweight influencers (aka the Calders and not CR family like brother Eric). The Calders seem to be the only stakeholders with the power to suggest CI cease sabotaging its dev progression with SQ42. And who can politely tell Chris to GTFO the way. Just like M$ politely dismissed him on Freelancer.
Click to expand...


Those three precedents aren't comparable to CIG's situation. Those games didn't raise a single dollar of income until they released.

As I've said many times before, CIG would be crazy to release while revenue streams are not only strong, but growing year on year. They've found an extraordinary business model where they've risked absolutely nothing themselves, but thrive on cash from donors. Just consider the commercials of this business model:

1. Zero financial risk (they didn't use any of their own money).
2. All salaries, expenses and marketing paid for by donors (and a small percentage by the Calder's investment).
3. No obligation to release a game because the T&C's literally say that pledges pay for the development of the game, no more.
4. CRobbers owns the majority of shares in a company valued at hundreds of millions of dollars, all paid for by backers.

I must be a fool. I started an IT company in 1998 and our business model is to pay for software development and then try to sell/license our products to customers based on their own merits. While I'm happy we're still going strong today, our business model is a hard risky slog. We have to continuously innovate and compete. I'd swap for CRobber's business model in an instant. It's pure genius.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
Agony_Aunt said:
Question for those who play.

When watching streamers come in for a landing they invariably switch to third person to land after flying in first person.

Is the reason for this simply to show off the ship or is actually easier to land in third person?
Click to expand...
It's easier 3rd person since your mostly landing in little shoeboxes barely bigger than your ship...headtracking helps in some ships with good visibility, bigger ships with no downward cockpit vision...not so much... but it certainly helps with spacial awarenesss. That said, I rarely use 3rd person when I'm in the ship for landing, it get's easier to judge once you get used to it. Once you've landed a Caterpillar or Gemini at Lorville, Levski or area 18 once or twice, it's not too difficult after that. The Cat having an asymetric cockpit is what puts most folk off trying to land it first person, since I fly it a lot, I barely notice it...not having UI or MFD landing radar like ED doesn't help of course.

This is an old vid from a year or so ago landing at an R&R stop...slightly different from landing in one of the planetary shoe boxes but it shows the offset cockpit view of the Cat. Using the ship lights to judge how far away from the back wall of the hangar you are also helps in 1st person. Reversing the ship out of the hangar is another matter entirely since not being able to see behind you, you've no idea bar sound cues if the doors are fuly open or not :D

I'm hovering over the pad refuelling in the vid since it was recorded when we had the refuelling/repair bug....one of many.

 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
LittleAnt said:
Some details on the idris railgun

Railgun shot to surface at short distance
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/km1v03

Railgun shot to surface at long distance (40km) (first minute of the video).

Turbulence close to the shot
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/koelyu

Scale of the railgun
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/kpu539
Click to expand...

Yeah, already saw it on SA. Pretty useless for mobile ships but as i understand can wipe out ships that can't avoid the shot. I'm sure Idris owners are wetting their pants over this power. Heard its shields are weak, but since its the version that people are meant to be blowing up (as opposed to stealing through glitches) not surprising there. I'm sure the player version will be stronger.

Also, LOL at anyone who bought tanks, this will obliterate them from a distance they won't be able to shoot back.
 
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