Unfair punishment

Misty_Dark

Misty_Dark
Niolator said:
I helped Sagan class tourist ship from a pirate attack. I shot down pirates worth of 1,4 Mililion credits. In the fighting I managed to hit the tourist ship by mistake few times gaining a bonunty on 200 credits. Later I messed things up with silent running (I didn't find the button to turn it of as I never use it) and I crashed on a nearby planet. Instead of being treated like a local hero for wiping out scores of pirates I get put in prison for a debt on 200 credits. What kind of logic is that? Frontier need to fix this and fast.
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This is how the blunt "justice" works in the game.....

This sounds like your first encounter with the "improved" Crime and Punishment 2.0, C&P 2.0, here you either are considered a criminal or not. there is no middle ground...

So we have fines, for small stuff, like hitting a ship near a station while speeding etc. Often these are in the range of 200-400 credits, pretty useless as deterrent to encourage people not to misbehave. The worst thing here is that you have to pay it off to be able to use all the facilities at the station.



Then we have the bounties, for doing bad stuff, like shooting at clean ships, authority ships, murdering clean ships... This makes you wanted, and now you legitimate target for any clean ships to take out, even if the bounty on your head is only 200 credits....

Now here is where the really blunt response in C&P 2.0 comes in. if you are killed by a clean ship, authority ship or a station, with a bounty on your head/ship, you will get sent to the detention center....and have to travel back... imagine visiting the ceiling of the galaxy, which have an outpost, only reachable by a Fleet Carrier, and manage to get wanted and killed by the authority ships, now you get a "free" ride back to the bubble, with your fleet carrier stuck some 4500 LY away...


So you are wanted, for a minor thing like accidental shooting a clean ship and you land at a station, and you have restricted access, just like with a fine. so you go and decide to pay it off, and you do NOT read the fine print on what it now says. becuase now you do not only pay off your bounty, you HAND YOURSELF IN!!!! you just voluntered for your prison time, and thus you got free ride to the nearest detention center! for that 400 credits bounty... for doing the "right" thing...This is even worse that the free ride there when you are killed.


So whenever you are have a bounty on your head, you ALWAYS want to visit an interstellar factor, and pay it of there! to avoid that free trip...


This as so many other things in ED is something we have to learn, often the hard way... encounter it, feel it is blunt response, and go what just happened, and now you should be properly motivated to learn what happened, and hopefully how to avoid this in the future... or at least you should be after your second, third or fourth lesson on how this works...


The sad part is that many believed C&P 2.0 was toughened up to deter ganking, and the sad truth is that it took most gankers less than one week to figure out how this works, and learn this is just a minor nuisance, while it keeps on hitting all the casual players like a sledgeahammer from behind... especially players that have returned from a break, as this is not how it used to be...



So bottom line, there are no heroes and there is no good way to say sorry and please take this token for my stupidity and lets be friends again option in the game... You are just another "you have not done anything bad, YET" ship in the eyes of the authority... who regularly will give you missions that will make you the bad guy for doing that mission!!! so they know you will be the bad guy eventually... and thus they threat you like you are always...
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
Agony_Aunt said:
How much should you be able to hit a friendly target like a station and get away with it?

Best they could do would be to set thresholds. Such already exist for friendly ships that you don't have targetted, perhaps they can do the same for stations.
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He hit a ship, not a station. He managed to exceed the thresholds already. Fdev couldn't do more to help him. You need to mess up quite a bit to manage this.

In the end, the OP wants to be treated as a hero when they ran to save an innocent from a mugging by jumping onto both victim and muggers with a baseball bat, smashing both of them in the face without any care and then stumbled into incoming traffic and died.

This is a case of learn from mistakes only, not a requirement for the game to change. The fact the op then went on to make the further error and lose their ship further compounds this final result as their error (if they'd not done that, they could have found an IF to get rid of the bounty without penalty, though I'm guessing they don't know that yet).

The op blew through all of the features already put in place to help them avoid the final result. This doesn't sound like the actions of a hero to me, it sounds like a dangerous individual in charge of a ship they're still learning to handle. They got appropriately rewarded in my opinion. I do not think further leniency is required (200cr fine, rebuy and being relocated is pretty low bar).

The best outcome is they learn from their mistakes and do better next time.
 
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d8veh

d8veh
These days, you can shoot the innocent ships quite a lot without getting a bounty on you. I tested it by shooting the cops even with relatively large weapons, like class 4 pulse lasers. If you have any innocent ship targeted and land any fire on it, even class 1 pulse laser, you get an instant assault charge and bounty put on you.

I've seen something new as well. If an unscanned wanted ship crosses your path of fire, you get fined for reckless discharge of weapons, but no bounty and no "wanted".
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
d8veh said:
These days, you can shoot the innocent ships quite a lot without getting a bounty on you. I tested it by shooting the cops even with relatively large weapons, like class 4 pulse lasers. If you have any innocent ship targeted and land any fire on it, even class 1 pulse laser, you get an instant assault charge and bounty put on you.

I've seen something new as well. If an unscanned wanted ship crosses your path of fire, you get fined for reckless discharge of weapons, but no bounty and no "wanted".
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Yeh, the current iteration of the "friendly fire" code is really sound. It wasn't always like this. At launch it was any damage to any non bounty target (even if it had a bounty and you'd not yet scanned it) was instant bounty on you.

It was too harsh (though many of us learned to live with it and manage fine) so the changes were welcome. It went through a few iterations but where it is now is really sweet.

If I get a bounty now I know I messed up properly. The op messed up properly and then faceplanted themselves into prison. I think their expectation of being treated like a hero is a touch delusional. I mean, we've all been there and all messed up but the difference is some of us see that as a learning experience and some of us think we're still heroic and deserve a medal...
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Agony_Aunt said:
Hmm... does seem like he is talking about the Sagan and not some random tourist ship like a Beluga.
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Yeah, the megaships are notorious for giving out friendly fire bounties - they're one of the few places you are encouraged to fight right next to a structure.

Doesn't excuse poor fire control though, many enjoy the challenge of it 🤷‍♀️
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Niolator said:
I helped Sagan class tourist ship from a pirate attack. I shot down pirates worth of 1,4 Mililion credits. In the fighting I managed to hit the tourist ship by mistake few times gaining a bonunty on 200 credits. Later I messed things up with silent running (I didn't find the button to turn it of as I never use it) and I crashed on a nearby planet. Instead of being treated like a local hero for wiping out scores of pirates I get put in prison for a debt on 200 credits. What kind of logic is that? Frontier need to fix this and fast.
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I was just trying to tie up my horse at the designated post, and a bunch of locals were crowding me, yet they claimed I was crowding them and then I get charged with agitating, and all the lawmen come out and start shooting at me! Rockstar needs to fix this and fast!
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
Less a reading fail and more ignorance of what "Sagan class" is. I definitely knew it wasn't a station though.

Actually, I think the way installations handle friendly fire is naff. So knowing this, I'd say some adjustment would be good.

Thanks for pointing that out. Still a learning experience. Still not exactly Heroic. But still not great the way one non targeted shot makes the instalation agro you.

I just leave these locations well alone. They're buggy anyway.
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Factabulous said:
Yeah, the megaships are notorious for giving out friendly fire bounties - they're one of the few places you are encouraged to fight right next to a structure.

Doesn't excuse poor fire control though, many enjoy the challenge of it 🤷‍♀️
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Oh yeah, in our system we have an installation where you get combat scenarios. I've picked up a fair few fines myself there... and sometimes my damn NPC in the SLF has triggered them as well.
 

Thatchinho

Thatchinho
skananote said:
And the answer is no. FDev is incapable of accounting for way too many thing - this one included. ED is full of inconsistencies... 200 credit fine is pathetic reason to throw anyone in jail... But hey, we getting space legs...
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You never get thrown into jail in ED for a fine.

A lot of people end up in jail because they can’t grasp two different words having two different meanings though.

Not sure FD should be reasonably expected to have to account for that.
 

skananote

S
Thatchinho said:
You never get thrown into jail in ED for a fine.
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Not sure if we're talking about the same game. I shot a cop. Got fine and wanted status. Tried to jump away to pay the fine, got destroyed. Lost ship, landed in jail?? So was punished three times for SINGLE mistake...
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
Rat Catcher said:
Fresh rebuy... Should be all new-smelling and shiny ;)
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Awesome! Wanna share the spoils of ragequit?

Agony_Aunt said:
Oh yeah, in our system we have an installation where you get combat scenarios. I've picked up a fair few fines myself there... and sometimes my damn NPC in the SLF has triggered them as well.
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No comment.
Your installation still has the picture of two naughty baggers on the wall under a wanted sign!

skananote said:
Not sure if we're talking about the same game. I shot a cop. Got fine and wanted status. Tried to jump away to pay the fine, got destroyed. Lost ship, landed in jail?? So was punished three times for SINGLE mistake...
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Wanted = bounty.
Not wanted = fine.
They're two different levels of problem.

Fines don't require jail. Bounties do. If you go to somewhere owned by the issuing faction. This is why the Interstellar Factor is so useful, especially if unsure who the bounty is for.

If you have a fine you can go to the owner's station (provided you're not hostile), and you can pay it there before anything else - they give you "anonymous access" to make it clear.

But if you have a bounty, you'll show as wanted as soon as you arrive, before the station can shoot you over the distance, as their reaction is the same as if you're hostile.

In that case, turn tail and run, to find the nearest IF. Then clean it off and all is good again. If you are able to dock whilst wanted, and then pay your bounty at the owner's station, you get a trip to strangeways as well, for being a bad boy.

Hope that helps clear it up.
 

Thatchinho

Thatchinho
skananote said:
Not sure if we're talking about the same game. I shot a cop. Got fine and wanted status. Tried to jump away to pay the fine, got destroyed. Lost ship, landed in jail?? So was punished three times for SINGLE mistake...
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Read back through what you've just said. Spot where you've swapped a word with a specific meaning out for a completely different word with a different meaning. Swap the correct word and meaning back in. That should make what actually happened to you, and why, much much clearer.
 

skananote

S
Bottom Hat said:
In that case, turn tail and run, to find the nearest IF. Then clean it off and all is good again. If you are able to dock whilst wanted, and then pay your bounty at the owner's station, you get a trip to strangeways as well, for being a bad boy.
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That is precisely what I was trying to do. Run away, pay the fine and get back to RES site. Did not work that way... So whatever fancy words ppl will try to use to disagree with me I don't care. I made a mistake but never got a chance to fix it, simple as that...
 
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